Author Topic: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain  (Read 56944 times)

Method101

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #150 on: October 10, 2012, 03:39:06 PM »
Some guys are just lucky to be hiper-responsive to creatine ::).
All drugs cell-tek

 :D

Jaime

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #151 on: October 10, 2012, 03:42:01 PM »
Ever hear of Albert  Beckles ?


Are you comparing this gimps genetics to Albert Beckles?

50 year old Albert Beckles isn't beating anyone in their twenties who has great genetics, even less so as a natural with zero test or natural gh production.
Trans Milkshake.

delon

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #152 on: October 10, 2012, 03:42:47 PM »
HMMMM.....

Maybe?

Ive been looking at his build (very impressive at any age esp 49) and I think he might be telling the truth.

His body has been pretty consistent and for christ sakes he's 185 so MAYBE.....

He has had a natural competition weight of 210 @ 5'8 - 25lbs heavier





Jaime

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #153 on: October 10, 2012, 03:46:39 PM »
He has had a natural competition weight of 210 @ 5'8 - 25lbs heavier








25lbs more than Zane and an inch shorter so about 30lbs.
Trans Milkshake.

BB

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #154 on: October 10, 2012, 04:36:04 PM »
He's also leaner, heavier, and shorter than many of the freaks and contest winners of the 40's, 50's -

Bodybuilder:

Clarence Ross    #198   

John Farbotnik    #195

George Eiferman    #195   

Reg Park            #214   

John Grimek    #208   

Jack Delinger    #195   

Steve Reeves    #214   


Could it really be all training, rib cage expansion, creatine, vitamins, etc..... ? Something to ponder.

Disgusted

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #155 on: October 10, 2012, 06:34:30 PM »
I don't really care what people do or take but when this guy comes on here and lies, well that doesn't really bother me either. What does bother me is that some of these younger guys on here think this guy is natural. Trust me I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but I've been around long enough to know this guy is loaded up on everything he can get his hands on. John is a mish mash of good and bad genetics. He probably knew early on that he would never turn pro due to his limited genetics especially in the leg department. He had nice arms and chest, decent shoulders and back and somewhat of a wide waist and ribcage which doesn't really help in the aesthetics appeal. So he did what all the rest of them guys with subpar genetics do and that's "become natural". Look at this pic of Ergo who said that he is 50 in this pic and compare it to John. Ergo is 6ft tall at 238 around 6% BF. So apparently steroids don't work at all cause he certainly doesn't claim to be natural. Forget what John says he weighs he has a very large amount of drug built muscle on him even for someone in the 20's let alone 50's.  


Metabolic

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #156 on: October 10, 2012, 06:37:20 PM »
I cant wrap my mind around all the gullible suckers that defend this cockmongling liar.

He's weight/conditioning is/was comparable to pro bodybuilders who have admitted use, he is alreado 50 years old, a body well past the hormonal peak, and maintains all the muscle mass?

Not only are you a delusional liar, but you have really shitty upper body genetics, worst than Kai Greene´s, and I bet that is what hold you from going into competetive bbing back then.

HTH, you are full of shit  :)

Figo

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #157 on: October 11, 2012, 12:35:22 AM »

He probably knew early on that he would never turn pro due to his limited genetics

So he did what all the rest of them guys with subpar genetics do and that's "become natural".  



This

BigCyp

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #158 on: October 11, 2012, 12:41:23 AM »
"leave john alone!"

Ahahaha instant classic

AbrahamG

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #159 on: October 11, 2012, 08:11:39 AM »
He takes test and fucks dudes.  Live and let live.  No homo.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #160 on: October 11, 2012, 11:03:41 PM »
Just take a look at the vascularity,veins and thickness in forearms.........



WOOOSSSHHHHHHH
There's a lot of really fkn great natty Bodybuilders out there. Where do you draw the line for what's acceptable to Be considered a natural physique? There's always someone with naturally better genetics who's showing up at these natty shows and pissing clean and passing lie detector tests. there's freaks out there...just look at some "prison yard" physiques that black inmates have. All about genetics!

There's also some really ugly fat f***'s out there on grams of gear who are just bad Bodybuilders. I train with a kid on occasion here at my gym whos on a gram of test and 600mg NPP a week and he still can't break past 16" (not shredded) arms. Point here is that based on Bodybuilders I've known personally, Johns physique and claims are believable. Theres some pics of some really great natties on this site (Krank, meso) who understand that some people are just gifted at building lean muscle without drugs. You can't lump everyone into a box and say "impossible without drugs!" The man is 185 lbs FFS

MCWAY

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #161 on: October 11, 2012, 11:15:05 PM »
There's a lot of really fkn great natty Bodybuilders out there. Where do you draw the line for what's acceptable to Be considered a natural physique? There's always someone with naturally better genetics who's showing up at these natty shows and pissing clean and passing lie detector tests. there's freaks out there...just look at some "prison yard" physiques that black inmates have. All about genetics!

There's also some really ugly fat f***'s out there on grams of gear who are just bad Bodybuilders. I train with a kid on occasion here at my gym whos on a gram of test and 600mg NPP a week and he still can't break past 16" (not shredded) arms. Point here is that based on Bodybuilders I've known personally, Johns physique and claims are believable. Theres some pics of some really great natties on this site (Krank, meso) who understand that some people are just gifted at building lean muscle without drugs. You can't lump everyone into a box and say "impossible without drugs!" The man is 185 lbs FFS

And he's smaller than what he used to be, when he competed in the low 200s. Hansen has never been a monster (relatively speaking).

The idea, however, that it's impossible for him (or someone like him) to bulk up to 230 (as he did in those pics shown) without anabolics is downright ludicrous.

Again, the problem is that many of the "whiners", as I call them, are so obsessed with being "lean", that they don't eat and drink calories needed for overall size and mass.

Wasn't Arnold quoted as saying that "You don't sculpt a pebble; you can only sculpt a big piece of granite." (or something to that effect)?

Granted, you're not trying to be a sumo wrestler. But, if abs are the only muscles you possess, you have major problems, if you want to be a bodybuilder.

To borrow from a certain 8-time Mr. Olympia, "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder; but don't nobody want to eat no heavy-@$$ food." And by 'eat', I don't mean just literally chewing and swallowing regular food. When I was in college, about half of my calories came from weight-gainer shakes (either commercial brands, when I could afford them; or ones make from milk and eggs, when I couldn't afford the commercial ones).

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #162 on: October 11, 2012, 11:25:58 PM »
And he's smaller than what he used to be, when he competed in the low 200s. Hansen has never been a monster (relatively speaking).

The idea, however, that it's impossible for him (or someone like him) to bulk up to 230 (as he did in those pics shown) without anabolics is downright ludicrous.

Again, the problem is that many of the "whiners", as I call them, are so obsessed with being "lean", that they don't eat and drink calories needed for overall size and mass.

Wasn't Arnold quoted as saying that "You don't sculpt a pebble; you can only sculpt a big piece of granite." (or something to that effect)?

Granted, you're not trying to be a sumo wrestler. But, if abs are the only muscles you possess, you have major problems, if you want to be a bodybuilder.

To borrow from a certain 8-time Mr. Olympia, "Everybody wanna be a bodybuilder; but don't nobody want to eat no heavy-@$$ food." And by 'eat', I don't mean just literally chewing and swallowing regular food. When I was in college, about half of my calories came from weight-gainer shakes (either commercial brands, when I could afford them; or ones make from milk and eggs, when I couldn't afford the commercial ones).
Good points. I don't see this side of the argument ever presented....only drug accusations if someone has anything over 16" arms. Those "whiners" are just as blind as the people who believe Phil or Kai are drug free. Both are extremist views, and not accurate or fair.


Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #163 on: October 12, 2012, 12:14:57 AM »
Good points. I don't see this side of the argument ever presented....only drug accusations if someone has anything over 16" arms. Those "whiners" are just as blind as the people who believe Phil or Kai are drug free. Both are extremist views, and not accurate or fair.



Are you the person in your avatar?

What could be your motivation to post the BS you do?
I just don't get it, what's in it for you? This cult is really sick.

Powerlift66

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #164 on: October 12, 2012, 01:15:45 AM »
Liar.. Filt....GetBig drugger...


GoneAway

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #165 on: October 12, 2012, 02:04:25 AM »
Even with people like Disgusted and Van palming John off, it just seems within the realm of possibility that he's natural. Sure, his arms and chest at their peak were akin to Arnold's... that may say it all... but John has been nothing but respectful in his comments. He could just say nothing and not bother defending himself, yet he comes in here and tells his side of the story. That's all that he can do.

He's a lifelong dedicated bodybuilder - more than just a gym junkie, weekend warrior or ab-shooter. IMO, he has GREAT genetics. A big ribcage is a PLUS in bodybuilding. Some people should get their facts straight.

BigCyp

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #166 on: October 12, 2012, 02:39:00 AM »
Can someone also explain why garebear has unnatural feelings towards children?

Figo

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #167 on: October 12, 2012, 05:41:04 AM »
Even with people like Disgusted and Van palming John off, it just seems within the realm of possibility that he's natural. Sure, his arms and chest at their peak were akin to Arnold's... that may say it all... but John has been nothing but respectful in his comments. He could just say nothing and not bother defending himself, yet he comes in here and tells his side of the story. That's all that he can do.

He's a lifelong dedicated bodybuilder - more than just a gym junkie, weekend warrior or ab-shooter. IMO, he has GREAT genetics. A big ribcage is a PLUS in bodybuilding. Some people should get their facts straight.

He is very respectful, and he's a likeable guy by all accounts, yet obviously he cannot come clean regarding his aas use, its how he makes a living.
On IA, john walks on water, he also represents companies, he can't just admit drug use to make us happy. 

oliolioli

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #168 on: October 12, 2012, 05:55:15 AM »
Are you the person in your avatar?

What could be your motivation to post the BS you do?
I just don't get it, what's in it for you? This cult is really sick.


Some people are just stupid and goolible and want to believe in something like a man in the sky or a natural bodybuilder, sometimes it's just as simple as that.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #169 on: October 12, 2012, 09:28:31 AM »
Are you the person in your avatar?

What could be your motivation to post the BS you do?
I just don't get it, what's in it for you? This cult is really sick.

Yeah bro, it's me. I'm 5'10, 200 lbs with 18" arms when pumped. (the avatar stretches my whole body out wider, so it makes them look bigger). And yes I'm Drug free.  But I also have chest and legs that respond terribly no matter how hard I hit them. Just another example of genetics coming into play. Genetic dispositions vary too greatly to categorize people with absolute statements about what can or can't be achieved naturally. Guarantee that Ronnie would have been the greatest natural bodybuilder alive if he decided to go that route. Genetics are EVERYTHING.

My only motivation to present a differing opinion is that there's people who don't put in even a couple years building a fkn foundation, before hopping on the sauce. You never know whats achievable naturally unless you work your ass off for a few years. Im in my 5th year of training and ive yet to hit this magical "plateau" that i hear talked about. When people accuse me of juicing, it confirms the fact that people just speculate and talk out there ass making crazy claims. My physique is  PATHETIC compared to the juicers at my gym, yet I get accused of it because my arms grow from doing barely any direct arm work???  The guy who started coaching me is a lifetime natural as well...he has a SICK physique. If I wouldn't have had this mentor as someone to aspire to be like, I probably would have hopped on the sauce From the get-go, and would have never known that i could achieve physique I have now naturally.

Not trying to hijack this thread, it's not about me. There's many other true natties on this site that look 10x better. Just offering a different perspective than the same BS that gets regurgitated here on a daily basis.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #170 on: October 12, 2012, 09:36:35 AM »
Even with people like Disgusted and Van palming John off, it just seems within the realm of possibility that he's natural. Sure, his arms and chest at their peak were akin to Arnold's... that may say it all... but John has been nothing but respectful in his comments. He could just say nothing and not bother defending himself, yet he comes in here and tells his side of the story. That's all that he can do.

He's a lifelong dedicated bodybuilder - more than just a gym junkie, weekend warrior or ab-shooter. IMO, he has GREAT genetics. A big ribcage is a PLUS in bodybuilding. Some people should get their facts straight.
I agree with much of your posts, but John in real life is like a miniature Arnold. Not even on the same level. I
His insertions are great, and he's got a shorter frame, but he's nowhere near as breathtaking (no homo) as the Oak

Van_Bilderass

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #171 on: October 12, 2012, 09:38:43 AM »
Yeah bro, it's me. I'm 5'10, 200 lbs with 18" arms when pumped. (the avatar stretches my whole body out wider, so it makes them look bigger). And yes I'm Drug free.  But I also have chest and legs that respond terribly no matter how hard I hit them. Just another example of genetics coming into play. Genetic dispositions vary too greatly to categorize people with absolute statements about what can or can't be achieved naturally. Guarantee that Ronnie would have been the greatest natural bodybuilder alive if he decided to go that route. Genetics are EVERYTHING.

My only motivation to present a differing opinion is that there's people who don't put in even a couple years building a fkn foundation, before hopping on the sauce. You never know whats achievable naturally unless you work your ass off for a few years. Im in my 5th year of training and ive yet to hit this magical "plateau" that i hear talked about. When people accuse me of juicing, it confirms the fact that people just speculate and talk out there ass making crazy claims. My physique is  PATHETIC compared to the juicers at my gym, yet I get accused of it because my arms grow from doing barely any direct arm work???

Not trying to hijack this thread, it's not about me. There's many other true natties on this site that look 10x better. Just offering a different perspective than the same BS that gets regurgitated here on a daily basis.

Yeah I hit "view pic" on your avatar and the avatar is bunched up. The skin texture looks somewhat suspect at first glance. Can't tell definitively from it though, so let's leave that. Pic of delt area would be better.

In any case, forget stats. I don't care about stats and I've argued this so many times before.
Drugs give certain look. Platz had tiny ass arms. Columbu had smallish "natural size" arms. Zane weighed in at a "natural" bodyweight. Bodybuilding is the look mainly, not the stat on paper. Sometimes stats can definitively say someone is juicing as they are so outrageous but many good bodybuilders don't look that impressive on paper yet are juiced up all the same.

Look at the double bi of John posted earlier, I think he said from 1996. Even his face tells the story.

Big Chiro Flex

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #172 on: October 12, 2012, 09:45:18 AM »
Yeah I hit "view pic" on your avatar and the avatar is bunched up. The skin texture looks somewhat suspect at first glance. Can't tell definitively from it though, so let's leave that. Pic of delt area would be better.

In any case, forget stats. I don't care about stats and I've argued this so many times before.
Drugs give certain look. Platz had tiny ass arms. Columbu had smallish "natural size" arms. Zane weighed in at a "natural" bodyweight. Bodybuilding is the look mainly, not the stat on paper. Sometimes stats can definitively say someone is juicing as they are so outrageous but many good bodybuilders don't look that impressive on paper yet are juiced up all the same.

Look at the double bi of John posted earlier, I think he said from 1996. Even his face tells the story.
Skin texture: shaved arms, tanning bed, and an epic pre workout carb load of a large pizza and ice cream = monster pump!! :D I have good delts too, and calves, but the rest falls apart.

You know as much as I do whether John is a lying POS or not, I'm just saying that there's a chance he just really is a genetic freak and it's possible. Not a popular opinion here though haha

ob205

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #173 on: October 12, 2012, 10:12:14 AM »
Funny you compare him to Arnold, ever seen pics of Arnold off, he looked very normal.  So in essence you are saying Arnold's genetics SUCKED (only a good responder to gear) and Mr. Natty O is superior, if that were reality, just use 200mg/test a week and be 10x Mr. O and famous EASY!


Figo

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Re: Mr. Natural Olympia - can someone explain
« Reply #174 on: October 12, 2012, 10:55:51 AM »
Funny you compare him to Arnold, ever seen pics of Arnold off, he looked very normal.  So in essence you are saying Arnold's genetics SUCKED (only a good responder to gear) and Mr. Natty O is superior, if that were reality, just use 200mg/test a week and be 10x Mr. O and famous EASY!



Yep