Author Topic: Nolva for Bloat  (Read 6928 times)

big-bri

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Nolva for Bloat
« on: November 27, 2005, 07:37:53 PM »
How much nolva would you recomend for combatting bloat?

massivemann

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #1 on: November 27, 2005, 10:56:44 PM »
10 to 20mg
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2005, 03:17:00 AM »
I'm a ghost in these killing fields...

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2005, 05:56:24 AM »
Dont use nolva for bloat, use an AI

freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2005, 07:02:51 AM »
Dont use nolva for bloat, use an AI

This may be more personal experience than science.  Nolva will work.  I'd start at 10mg.

big-bri

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2005, 05:20:53 PM »
Thats about what I figured, thanks.

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2005, 05:43:38 PM »
Don't forget nolvadex is a SERM, meaning it selectively blocks estrogen at specific sites, in the case of nolva, breast tissue.  It is actually a weak estrogen itself, and will exhibit estrogenic properties at other sites...lets see....at bones, the liver, abdominal fat stores.  The liver and bones are OK actually beneficial in lowering your lipid profile or combating osteoporosis in post menopausal women.  Abdominal fat stores?...not so good.  :(

DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2005, 06:30:20 PM »
Abdominal fat stores?...not so good.  :(

There's always a drawback.....

That's life.



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freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2005, 05:52:39 AM »
Don't forget nolvadex is a SERM, meaning it selectively blocks estrogen at specific sites, in the case of nolva, breast tissue.  It is actually a weak estrogen itself, and will exhibit estrogenic properties at other sites...lets see....at bones, the liver, abdominal fat stores.  The liver and bones are OK actually beneficial in lowering your lipid profile or combating osteoporosis in post menopausal women.  Abdominal fat stores?...not so good.  :(

Luv:  great points, as usual.

mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2005, 05:55:12 AM »
You guys ARE great!!!
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2005, 06:36:39 AM »
What is the connection to "belly fat".  I don't get that?  I understand that it may have estrogenic effect but can't connect that to retention of mid section fat stores?


It's pretty simple.

The estrogenic activity in Nolvadex will manifest itself in the estrogen receptor sites in the abdominal region, thus increasing fat stores in the belly.




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Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2005, 06:46:08 AM »
It's pretty simple.

The estrogenic activity in Nolvadex will manifest itself in the estrogen receptor sites in the abdominal region, thus increasing fat stores in the belly.




DIV

Yes that is a good explanation.  I have been trying to find the research on it.  There was a thread by a dude named marble on this with tons of info sources, I think it was titled "are you taking too much nolva?" or "letro vs nolva".  I will keep looking.

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2005, 06:48:39 AM »
How about you just dont use steroids then you wont have this problem you cheating scumbag!

Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2005, 07:47:26 AM »
How about you just dont use steroids then you wont have this problem you cheating scumbag!

"Sammy,   Baby"(said sammy davis jr. style), ..why the hate?

mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2005, 08:31:39 AM »

What is the connection to "belly fat". I don't get that? I understand that it may
have estrogenic effect but can't connect that to retention of mid section fat stores?


Fat accumulation around mid-section, ?Properly termed? feminine pattern fat distribution,
I believe directly related to estrogenic activity . . .


Don't forget nolvadex is a SERM, meaning it selectively blocks estrogen at specific sites,
in the case of nolva, breast tissue.  It is actually a weak estrogen itself, and will
exhibit estrogenic properties at other sites...lets see....at bones, the liver,
abdominal fat stores.  The liver and bones are OK actually beneficial in
lowering your lipid profile or combating osteoporosis in post menopausal women.
Abdominal fat stores?...not so good.  :(


This post (in particular) struck a cord . . . about Nolvadex (in essence) being a weak estrogen . . .

I have Nolvadex (on hand) and have instead been using Arimidex throughout
on this cycle (my most aggressive to date) and I have noticed the best results yet
in terms of BF reduction all over my body. Luv2hurt posted a  g r e a t  message
detailing something that I hit on (in a prior post) about Nolvadex / HgH in
essence iterfering at receptor level. Ah HA!!! never made any association to IGF . ..

I am experiencing this directly, unlike previous cycles. Especially in entire mid-section
(modest love handles gone!!!) and (for first time) noticing vascularity in my legs, thighs,
ham and even glutes (yes glutes).
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2005, 12:36:31 PM »
Yes that is a good explanation.  I have been trying to find the research on it.  There was a thread by a dude named marble on this with tons of info sources, I think it was titled "are you taking too much nolva?" or "letro vs nolva".  I will keep looking.

Isn't Marble a chemist or someone with a biochemistry background?

I've heard of him before, but not sure if he's an active member.





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freakfestMD

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2005, 01:15:09 PM »
Isn't Marble a chemist or someone with a biochemistry background?

I've heard of him before, but not sure if he's an active member.
DIV

Oh...how quickly they forget...


DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2005, 01:26:11 PM »
Oh...how quickly they forget...

I wasn't here for the days of Marble.

Where is he?

Can we get him back?




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mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2005, 03:05:05 PM »
HA! I found part(s) of it . . . still looking for more meat related to this
and DO have to get some work done today . . . but this really matters

First - I just gotta say - I really DIG you guys !!! I know I  K N O W - IT sounds ghey! I DONT CARE  ;D

You all - (my buds) specific to course of this thread -  ???  ???  have got me thinking (much of the time)  ???  ???
and I am growing in multiple ways for all the boundless help and continued motivation to keep me thinking
about ths f'ing cool hobby or practice . . . !GUSHING! I will f'ing stop IT . . .

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=29768.msg464086#msg464086


three things are probably contributing.  highly suspect water retention.  also, androgens generally encourage an androgenic fat storage style; it's often called an apple rather than pear shape.  this means increased storage of visceral -- organ/gut -- fat.  if you're eating more, expect your digestive tract to expand a little bit to accommodate the greater nutrient load.

it's not likely too much muscle hypertrophy at this point, because this would take a longer time to occur.  it's far more likely in this case that your existing muscle is being pushed outward by increased visceral accumulation.



letrozole will be more effective as an anti-estrogen.  you may have seen this redistribution because nolvadex actually acts as a powerful estrogen at fat stores, and contributed to a more feminine fat distribution (pear).  this is usually a pretty slow process though, so i'd blame the weight loss instead.


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=29681.msg465000#msg465000


- - your anti-e plan sounds fine.  if you don't like the bloat, run light letrozole throughout; otherwise, the extra cell volume will only help hypertrophy.  but for the love of your balls and women, add some hcg throughout.  use it in the diluent to mix

****for the others, it's counterproductive to run nolva in general, but particularly when you're running gh.  you're shooting yourself in the foot unless you get *very* definite gyno symptoms, in which case you must take it quickly since it's by far the best prevention.  nolva inhibits the formation of igf-i by the liver regardless of whether the gh is endogenous or exogenous. ****


****THIS PORTION OF POST IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN DRIVING AT  ****
instinctively I have really come to this conclusion by the past few cycles -
EG: Nolva and HgH - combo not good - I can see (and feel) it in my body

Luv2Hurt - I had NO IDEA you were the same age (range) as freakfeastMD and me
(not that it matters one bit) I had just figured that your a 20 something YO cocker
(no insult intended), as you (too) ARE a wildman  ;)

Thanks you guys for pushing me . . .

This all makes sense . . .
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2005, 03:28:02 PM »
HA! I found part(s) of it . . . still looking for more meat related to this
and DO have to get some work done today . . . but this really matters

Thanks for that.

Marble seems to be a veteran of the game.





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Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2005, 05:57:28 PM »
yes good job mem those were some of the marble posts I was referring to  :)  Wish we could get them all, they were all referenced by studies.

Actually marble was a young guy, not sure of his backround but the dude was a brilliant researcher, I'm guessing he was in medical research or something.

DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2005, 06:10:03 PM »
Actually marble was a young guy, not sure of his backround but the dude was a brilliant researcher, I'm guessing he was in medical research or something.

Ahh......so Marble was the research side of this.  The board needs one of those guys, who lives in the studies. 

Where did Marble go?

Anyone know?   ???




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Luv2Hurt

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2005, 06:30:19 PM »
Said work had him maxed out, said he would come back...but im not so sure, its been probally six months since we have heard from him.

I think it may be possible marble left the dark side  :(

mem

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2005, 06:48:19 PM »
I also liked mythical Marble links to (bonafied references) . . .

But his point (something to the effect) of volumizing (water bloat)
pulling more into the cell is more clear now than ever before.
Supports notions *that estrogen is ?important? possibly anabolic
increased mass or gains due to estrogens presence. Hmmm.

- - - - - -

And I was particularly interested in (his) expressed concepts
of receptor (up regulation) with higher androgen usage . . .
quite contrary to common perceptions, It makes sense to me.

Partially why I increased baseline test levels in current cycle .
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DIVISION

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Re: Nolva for Bloat
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2005, 06:48:45 PM »
Said work had him maxed out, said he would come back...but im not so sure, its been probally six months since we have heard from him.

I think it may be possible marble left the dark side  :(

Wait......I thought he was a "researcher", not that he HIMSELF had crossed over to the "Dark Side" of the force.

Someone care to elaborate on this?

Was he a user?

Speak.




DIV
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