.

[anabolichalo]

.

[njflex]

flip side is how much u don't need to get your body as big and lean as one's genes and hard work gets them..

[freespirit]

Fact is, you don't need steroids to get in good shape.

[kimo]

does drygs dont do much . mostly they give you trouble . water retention agressiveness . losing hair . losing control of your libido . all this for a few more pounds on your bar . . they  are a nightmare . in fact .

[njflex]

Fact is, you don't need steroids to get in good shape.

true,,,good shape is possible and achievable,,,freak size or conditioning and or both is not,,,

[njflex]

good shape is not impressive tho

the natural bodybuilding look is actually worse than just random lean guy look

well if ur dieting to sub 6pct clean then yeah,,,but 8pct to 10 ur full and abs then ur good to go...

[kimo]

when i was on steroids i looked like a bloated guy . i  returned to a good shape and good lines when i quit .

[Kwon_2]

I'd rather would want to know how much training and food (exact amount) it would take to get big and lean, ie what was needed to become as big and lean possible with natural means.

[njflex]

I'd rather would want to know how much training and food (exact amount) it would take to get big and lean, ie what was needed to become as big and lean possible with natural means.

it's the same journey either way clean or drugged just 2 totally different path's one for the long haul with limits the other shorter and if genetically in decent shape in terms of structure,shape,ability  to get big and or lean/both a hellava lot quicker,,,

[arce1988]

  Journey. Go as far as you can Natural. Then use PED.