George Zimmerman's injuries faked?

[240 is Back]

Could it be that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, and Martin immediately became aware of the gun?  Could a witness be made to say that it appeared as though Martin was trying to use his knee to pin Zimmerman's hand or arm at any point when he was on top of Zimmerman?

ZImmerman had his 9mm in front waist band carry.  It's damn near impossible to run without your hand on it.  So he was either jogging with his hand on it - OR he had it in his hand.   Ya can't "prove" either, but the jury will look at what kind of person he was, the things he was saying, the fact he was serving as a neighborhood watch capacity while violating their rules about carrying a weapon...

ZImmerman didn't seem like the type to hide the fact he had a gun, if ya catch my drift.  Couldn't go 5 minutes without telling all the neighbors about the gun he had.  If you think Zimmerman was engaged in a major night-time chase with the a-hole/punk who stole his bike... and didn't have that gun at the ready, well lol...

[Jack T. Cross]

How likely is it that Zimmerman would want to make Martin aware of the gun, and to cause this awareness to occur as early as possible in the interaction?

[240 is Back]

How likely is it that Zimmerman would want to make Martin aware of the gun, and to cause this awareness to occur as early as possible in the interaction?

I think the jury will determine ZImm was the kind of guy who would try to assert control of the confrontation (one that he was causing) as quickly as possible.

[Jack T. Cross]

I think the jury will determine ZImm was the kind of guy who would try to assert control of the confrontation (one that he was causing) as quickly as possible.

I have to admit, from what I've heard, it seems Zimmerman is a person who would want to make Martin aware of the existence of the gun as quickly as possible upon having an encounter with him.

Problem is, that could give Martin a reason to fear for his life.

[Option D]

Doesn't matter who started it.

It does.

[Beach Bum]

Do we know Trayvon's injuries yet?  Has the full report been released and would those things show up during an autopsy?

I didn't know he was showing lack of injuries.  Interesting.

The only injuries I recall reading about from the autopsy were on Martin's knuckles, which had to come from him punching Zimmerman.

 http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

[Beach Bum]

No I was asking whether a broken bone could be 100% diagnosed without an xray ? Or is it deemed a suspected broken nose in the absence of xray?

Either way it makes little difference people are not fools , they can look at the pics of Zimmerman from the police station and see his injuries were minimal.

No his head was definitely bleeding, superficial cuts that didn't need a single stitch.

No one is disputing that he was in a physical fracas with Trayvon and he was coming off worse, but his injuries amounted to him being a little "bumped and bruised" not would you'd expect after being pounded in the face more than dozen times.

Do you disagree with the doctor's diagnosis of a broken nose?

[Beach Bum]

It does.

It does not.

[Conker]

The only injuries I recall reading about from the autopsy were on Martin's knuckles, which had to come from him punching Zimmerman.

 http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/autopsy-results-show-trayvon-martin-had-injuries-h/nN6gs/

That article is BS I'm afraid , he never had "injuries" on his knuckles, he had a single 1/4 of an inch x 1/8 of an inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger, do you realise how small that is ? just over 1/2 cm x 1/4cm...

pdf of Trayvon's autopsy repoort

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

Hardly the damage you'd expect to see on someone who has just pounded someone in the face more than a dozen with their bare fists...Maybe the kid had fists of steel? Or was wearing boxing gloves?

[Conker]

Do you disagree with the doctor's diagnosis of a broken nose?

I'm not disagreeing, I am just asking whether a broken nose can be 100% diagnosed without xray? Or would it be suspected if no xray?

I'm guessing you don't know either...

As I said I really doubt whether his nose was broken or suspected broken will make much difference. It doesn't take a great deal of force to fracture a bone in the nose(and there is no dispute there was a physical conflict), but as you can see from the Zimmerman police station pics any facial damage is minimal. The camera never lies as they say.

[Conker]

It does not.

It actually does make a big difference. If you go read the Florida statute re self defence/deadly force. If it is believed that Zimmerman started the confrontation or even if it's believed that his actions would have led a reasonable person to use force against him(following a stranger around late at night?) then the bar for the use of deadly force in self defence is set higher.

[240 is Back]

That is BS I'm afraid , he never had "injuries" on his knuckles, he had a single 1/4 of an inch x 1/8 of an inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger, do you realise how small that is ? just over 1/2 cm x 1/4cm...

pdf of Trayvon's autopsy repoort

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

Hardly the damage you'd expect to see on someone who has just pounded someone in the face more than a dozen with their bare fists...Maybe the kid had fists of steel? Or was wearing boxing gloves?

wow, he had one small cut the size of a head of a pin on his pinkie.

THAT is the extent of his hand injuries?  Sounds like he was doing a lot more pinning down zimmerman to keep that gun from coming out. 

[blacken700]

It actually does make a big difference. If you go read the Florida statute re self defence/deadly force. If it is believed that Zimmerman started the confrontation or even if it's believed that his actions would have led a reasonable person to use force against him(following a stranger around late at night?) then the bar for the use of deadly force in self defence is set higher.

hey hey hey that's not what hannity and rush is telling them 

[Jack T. Cross]

As soon as Martin becomes aware of the gun, he has legitimate reason to fear for, and to fight for, his life.

Would anyone challenge this?

[Beach Bum]

That article is BS I'm afraid , he never had "injuries" on his knuckles, he had a single 1/4 of an inch x 1/8 of an inch small abrasion on the left fourth finger, do you realise how small that is ? just over 1/2 cm x 1/4cm...

pdf of Trayvon's autopsy repoort

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/05/17/trayvon-martin-autopsy_n_1525763.html

Hardly the damage you'd expect to see on someone who has just pounded someone in the face more than a dozen with their bare fists...Maybe the kid had fists of steel? Or was wearing boxing gloves?

So he had injuries on his knuckles, but just not enough to satisfy you?  lol  The fact he had injuries on his knuckles and none on his face (or anywhere else), coupled with Zimmerman's injuries, speaks volumes. 

[blacken700]

So he had injuries on his knuckles, but just not enough to satisfy you?  lol  The fact he had injuries on his knuckles and none on his face (or anywhere else), coupled with Zimmerman's injuries, speaks volumes. 

hahahahahahaha only in your mind 

[240 is Back]

So he had injuries on his knuckles, but just not enough to satisfy you?  lol  The fact he had injuries on his knuckles and none on his face (or anywhere else), coupled with Zimmerman's injuries, speaks volumes. 

a 1/2 by 1/4 inch abrasion... on his PINKIE?   THAT is the injuries from a serious beatdown?

I dunno, that's a very very small abrasion... Zimm's claims looking very weak.

[Beach Bum]

I'm not disagreeing, I am just asking whether a broken nose can be 100% diagnosed without xray? Or would it be suspected if no xray?

I'm guessing you don't know either...

As I said I really doubt whether his nose was broken or suspected broken will make much difference. It doesn't take a great deal of force to fracture a bone in the nose(and there is no dispute there was a physical conflict), but as you can see from the Zimmerman police station pics any facial damage is minimal. The camera never lies as they say.

I'm not sure if a broken nose can be "100% diagnosed without xray," but what difference does that make?  I've been around sports enough to know what a broken nose looks like.  And the doctor said he had a broken nose, so who cares what you or I think anyway? 

You're saying Martin used "minimal force" to punch Zimmerman in the nose and break it.  What the heck is "minimal force"?  It's not like they were slap boxing.  lol  You can't just tap someone on the nose and break it. 

So you are disagreeing with the doctor's diagnosis of a broken nose.  And yes, the fact (it is a fact) that he had broken nose and cuts on the back of his head makes a huge difference.  It supports his story.  So do the pictures.  So do several witnesses. 

But hey you are free to disagree with his doctor:

"A medical report compiled by the family physician of Trayvon Martin shooter George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a "closed fracture" of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation."

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmerman-medical-report-sheds-light-injuries-trayvon/story?id=16353532

[Beach Bum]

As soon as Martin becomes aware of the gun, he has legitimate reason to fear for, and to fight for, his life.

Would anyone challenge this?

Yes.  There is no evidence of this. 

Also, if he sees a gun, he likely runs away, not towards the person with the gun. 

[240 is Back]

Yes.  There is no evidence of this. 

Also, if he sees a gun, he likely runs away, not towards the person with the gun. 

good point.  No wonder he ran 2 blocks to get away from zimmerman.  waving around that 9 mm.

[Beach Bum]

good point.  No wonder he ran 2 blocks to get away from zimmerman.  waving around that 9 mm.

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman was "waving around that 9 mm"? 

[240 is Back]

Where is the evidence that Zimmerman was "waving around that 9 mm"? 

juries don't need videotape of zimm waving it to convict him.

I can chase a punk kid into an alley, fight him, blow his head off, then gloat "but but but you don't have any witnesses!!"

No, zimm made sure there were no witnesses.   He chased the kid 2 blocks in the night.  He caused the fight, got ass whooped, then shot the kid.

Juries get incomplete sets of evidence all the time - most murders actually don't take place with videotape catching the whole thing.  Seriously.  They look at the circumstances leading up to the death - maybe which guy had a gun and was chasing the other - and they reach their conclusion.

[Beach Bum]

juries don't need videotape of zimm waving it to convict him.

I can chase a punk kid into an alley, fight him, blow his head off, then gloat "but but but you don't have any witnesses!!"

No, zimm made sure there were no witnesses.   He chased the kid 2 blocks in the night.  He caused the fight, got ass whooped, then shot the kid.

Juries get incomplete sets of evidence all the time - most murders actually don't take place with videotape catching the whole thing.  Seriously.  They look at the circumstances leading up to the death - maybe which guy had a gun and was chasing the other - and they reach their conclusion.

I missed the part where you showed the evidence he was "waving around that 9 mm."  Link?  Or are you just pulling that out of your rear end?     

[blacken700]

I missed the part where you showed the evidence he was "waving around that 9 mm."  Link?  Or are you just pulling that out of your rear end?      

and your link that martin started the fight   and leave out the part that zimm had cuts  

[Jack T. Cross]

Yes.  There is no evidence of this.

So you don't find it believable, that Zimmerman would make Martin aware of the gun in an attempt to do the right thing in his mind, which was to have this person questioned by police.

Also, if he sees a gun, he likely runs away, not towards the person with the gun.  

Meaning you wouldn't accept the probability of 'fight' being much greater than 'flight', given the close contact.