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Author Topic: Today I learned what name the victorians had for pitbulls  (Read 8118 times)
E-Kul
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« Reply #25 on: December 17, 2012, 07:53:22 PM »

The pit bull apologia would have you believe that their fighting bred dogs are just like any other dog in many ways, but so superior in their unparalleled love and devotion for children they were commonly known as "The Nanny Dog" throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. If pit bulls are held in low esteem today, it is only due to ignorance and the gullible acceptance of biased news reporting because, once upon a time, pit bulls were the most beloved dog in England and the United States.

A google search brings up 77,100 results for the term "nanny dog." While some sites bestow the Nanny Dog mantle on the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier and some lead you to productions of Peter Pan, most of the results lead you to 21st century blogs and news articles about the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

120 sites dedicated to the Staffordshire Bull Terrier include this phrase in support of the fighting nanny dog mythology,
"These dogs were renowned for their courage and tenacity and despite their ferocity in the pit were excellent companions and good with children. In fact it was not unknown for an injured dog to be transported home in a pram with the baby!"
Frankly, even if this anecdote were plausible, let alone true, this doesn't support a nanny dog claim so much as it supports a sociopathic, baby abusing, dog abusing, parent claim.

Dig as hard as you want, the pram story is all you'll find to support the Nanny Dog myth in any of these sites. You won't find a single citation, quote or reference of any kind to a 19th century, or early 20th century text. Since the Staffordshire Bull Terrier enthusiasts didn't see fit to support their claims, I decided I would have to find the origin of the Nanny Dog myself.

Meet the Nanny Dog - the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, England's ultimate fighting dog and, inexplicably, the supposed dog of choice to care for England's children in the 19th and early 20th centuries.



It is not hard to find old references to the Bull Terrier. The various histories and descriptions of the breed largely agree with each other. After bull baiting was banned in England, Coalminers in various cities including Staffordshire were at a loss for blood sporting alternatives for their beloved, courageous bulldogs. So, they developed another blood sport - pit dog fighting. Sadly, they soon found their bulldogs were not suited to win in the pit.

According to a 1908 New York Times article,
"The old lovers of the bulldog found to their dismay that sometimes a terrier, with only quickness and a pair of punishing jaws to recommend him, would kill a bulldog while the latter was merely hanging on. The bulldog would be brave to the death of course, and would withstand pain that the terrier would never endure, but that was poor consolation when the terrier had killed the dog.
The dog fighters were, however, as persevering a set of men as were the bull baiters, and they set to work to remodel their favorites for their new occupation. They began to cross their bulldogs with the white English terrier, a breed now practically extinct, but the same in every respect, save color, as the modern Manchester or black-and-tan. The progeny was named the bull terrier, the greatest fighting machine, pound for pound, on four legs. The bull terrier had the courage of the bulldog and the jaws and quickness of the white terrier. Moreover, he has the terrier's way of fighting. He does not simply take a hold and stay there. He takes a hold and begins to eat his way through and tear and worry. If his first hold doesn't suit, he takes another. If he gets his adversary by the throat, he will tear out the throat in a minute or so and end the battle."
"There is perhaps no more beautiful illustration of the results of artificial selection than is provided in the history of the bulldog. It is a wonderful example of patient and skillful breeding for an object that is not wholly ignoble.
We can agree to disagree on that last point.

It is a bit confounding that the New York Times author neglected to mention the Staffordshire dog fighter's even more stupendous genetic achievement, that of creating an unstoppable "fighting machine" that can also be used to nanny their children.

Nineteenth century dog breed books, such as The Illustrated Natural History (Mammalia), by Rev. JG Wood (1853), and The Dogs of the British Islands, by J.H. Walsh (1878) very precisely describe the deadly nature of the Bull Terrier, including an account of a Bull Terrier's attack on a rhinoceros by a dog "called Venus in derision of her ugliness."(Wood, p. 311) Walsh suggests that, "unlike the bulldog, he (the Bull Terrier) is an excellent companion for the male sex, being a little too violent in his quarrels to make him desirable as a ladies' pet (p. 221)." Nanny Dog? Not so much.

In 1894, Rawdon B. Lee wrote A History and Description of the Modern Dogs of Great Britain and Ireland in which he explains that in the middle of the 19th century, fanciers began to breed bull terriers as "a gentleman's companion" and began showing them. It was about this time that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier began to be recognized as distinct from the Bull Terrier. The Kennel Club in England recognized the Bull Terrier in the last quarter of the 19th century, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier became the pit fighting dog of choice. The Staffordshire Bull Terrier was denied Kennel Club recognition until 1935 because of its reputation as a pit fighting dog.


Lee illustrates the Bull Terrier's unsavory past by revealing that Bulls-eye, one of the meanest dogs in literary history and Bill Sykes' sidekick and alter ego from Oliver Twist (1838) was a Bull Terrier. Dickens describes Bull's-Eye as having a face "scratched and torn in twenty different places..." and..."who by a certain malicious licking of his lips seemed to be meditating an attack up on the legs of the first gentleman or lady he might encounter in the streets when he went out." Charles Dickens also seemed unaware of the Bull Terrier's special powers as a nanny, but was aware of the pit bull's capacity for human aggression.


Charles Dickens' Bill Sikes and Bull's-Eye

Lee (p. 23) contends, "our modern Bull Terrier is a very different creature from what he was half a century ago." According to Lee, they had been perhaps the most popular dog in England, until they were recently supplanted by the Fox Terrier. They were kept for pets and companions, they gained recognition in dog shows, and became fashionable to own among the undergraduates at Oxford and Cambridge. If any pit fighting dog might have been called England's Nanny Dog, surely it would have been the white Bull Terrier. And yet there is no mention of it.


Mr. Lee is perhaps the first recorded pit nutter. He penned what might be the first known iteration of, "It's how you raise them" (p.22, p. 26) which is hilariously followed by the woeful tale of the demise of Mr. Lee's own beloved Bull Terrier, Sam. Sam was incredibly talented and an incomparable companion who, owing to fighting blood on his sire's side, became increasingly aggressive. After killing at least two dogs, Sam was dumped at a warehouse to be a guard dog where he died of a broken heart. 30 years later, Mr. Lee still laments the incredible and bloodthirsty Sam. But, I thought it was how you raise them...

As for 19th century mentions of the "Staffordshire Bull Terrier" that can be found online, there is one. It is a want ad for a fighting dog:
Pleshey Chelmsford Wanted a Staffordshire bull terrier dog must have an exceedingly long nose and thoroughly game to face anything and win A tried dog preferred PS For special purpose weight 34 lb 944 (1871 Exchange and Mart and Journal of the Household (p. 614))

Archive searches of British, American and Canadian newspapers going as far back as the 18th century turn up not one single mention of "Nanny Dog" with regards to ANY breed until 1904 when the first stage production of Peter Pan opened featuring a nursemaid dog named Nana. Though J.M. Barrie patterned Nana after his Landseer Newfoundland, Nana has been portrayed by a St. Bernard, and an Old English Sheep Dog in subsequent stage and screen productions. No mention of Nana ever being a Staffie Bull. Not even in Never Never Land.



So, where is the oldest known reference to the Staffie Bull as a nanny dog? In a New York Times article. In 1971, Walter R. Fletcher wrote an article entitled, "A Breed That Came Up the Hard Way" in which he interviewed William R. Daniels and Mrs. Lilian Rant, President and magazine editor for the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Club of America on the eve of the Staffie Bull's being granted permission to be shown in the American Kennel Club's miscellaneous class. It's the first step to AKC recognition and the club wanted to polish their dog's image.

Daniels brings up Dickens' villainous Bull's-Eye again and Mrs. Rant acknowledges that the Stafford "had an unsavory reputation for fighting and violence and his name became associated with ruffians, who cared little for him as a dog but only for his ability in the pit. The Stafford we know today quickly becomes a member of the family circle. He loves children and is often referred to as a 'nursemaid dog.'"

Well, there it is. Mrs. Rant, lover and promoter of the Stafford, is clearly speaking in the present tense about the dog of today (1971) currently being referred to as a 'nursemaid dog' in the United States. She is using a variation of the argument that Mr. Lee used 77 years before about the Bull Terrier, suggesting that the Staffordshire Bull Terrier's unsavory reputation as a fighting dog has been left in the far distant past. She harkens back to Dickens again, before the Staffordshire Bull Terrier even existed as a distinct breed. Her contention that Staffordshire Bull Terriers are OFTEN referred to as nursmaid dogs is a little bit of a stretch, too. In 1971, there were 99 registered Staffordshire Bull Terriers in the United States. As editor of the club's magazine, she must have been at the center of all conversation about the breed. It is likely that she either coined the nickname or promulgated it through the magazine, and the term may have gained popularity among those few Stafford enthusiasts who subscribed to her magazine.

A timeline search does not turn up a mention of the "nanny dog" until 1987 in an archived Toronto Star article entitled, Move to Outlaw Pit Bulls Under Study in Several Cities.

"Breeder Kathy Thomas, president of the Staffordshire Bull Terrier Association said, 'We're aware of the fighting - there's a lot of it in the Hamilton area. We only sell to family homes.'"

"Thomas, mother of two young children, said her eight Staffordshires are 'wonderful with children. In England, our Staffies were called the nanny-dog because they were gentle with kids.'"

Here's where the lie begins to get twisted into its most bizarre and current form and the Nanny Dog myth jumps on the crazy train. The Nanny Dog argument is no longer valid in the way that Mrs. Rant used it in 1971 when the general public was not aware of contemporary dog fighting. By the 1980s, dog fighting had become a generally recognized problem and initiatives to ban pit bulls were beginning. Kathy Thomas acknowledges that there is dog fighting going on all around her in 1987 near Toronto. She can no longer say that the Staffie was once, long ago, in Dickensian England a fighting dog, but has been transformed by many years of selective breeding to be a gentle nanny dog. The dogs are fighting all around her. So, the lie becomes that Staffordshire Bull Terriers were ALWAYS known as nanny dogs. They snuggled with the babies by day, ripped out throats and gutted each other by night and, returning from the fight, snuggled once again with the baby in the pram, this time ripped to shreds and soaked in blood.

It took about 16 years for the story to mutate into the Nanny dog of England - historic fighter and lover of children. But, the myth did not really take off for another 4 years, when Mrs. Rant published her book in 1991, Staffordshire Bull Terriers: Owner's Companion. She uses the term "nursemaid dog" three times and significantly says, " He has a great affection for children, having earned the title 'nursemaid dog' many years ago." (p.117) In this instance, "many years ago" means about 20 years previous, when she first coined or adopted the term.

And how about the history of the term "America's Nanny Dog" referring to the American Pit Bull Terrier or the American Staffordshire Terrier? 5,570 results come up for that query. Again, you cannot find one single citation, source or reference to a text from the 1940s that confirms this assertion. A google timeline search for "America's Nanny Dog" shows the earliest online publication date is September 25, 2007 as an opinion piece in the online publication, Times-Standard entitled "America's Nanny Dog" by Tyla Hafstrom. It is a complete fabrication and an utter lie.

Go ahead and prove me wrong, not with a single primary source, but with a preponderance of evidence that demonstrates the incredible existence of the baby loving fighting dog that was so beloved and so popular in times gone by that it was commonly called the nanny dog.

This, by the way, doesn't count.
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« Reply #26 on: December 17, 2012, 07:55:22 PM »

No, the retard statement is pretty accurate. I work with the group that rescued all the vick dogs.  Pits are amazing animals, and when raised by normal people, are normal dogs. 

before the 80's, they were never involved in attacks.  Since the explosion of rap culture, influx of immigration, and glamorization of thug life, the dogs have been abused, exploited, and their PR has been ruined.  but this is a cyclical process, and it has happened before with numerous other breeds, like the blood hound, the german shep, dobermans, rotts...whatever the fad dog is that retards have, they turn into monsters.

here comes "e-kul" to call me a "pidiot," and talk about what horrific creatures they are.
Every Pit i've encountered has been super friendly and loving. Of course, they have decent owners that raised them well.
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« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2012, 07:58:13 PM »

Also this year, the NANNY DOG has killed well over 20 people, the majority of them Children, just the other day a NANNY DOG killed a 2 year old.  it might be time for Pitbull Lovers to check the credentials of their babysitter, as it regularly maims, mauls and kills children.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx
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« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2012, 08:03:27 PM »

Also this year, the NANNY DOG has killed well over 20 people, the majority of them Children, just the other day a NANNY DOG killed a 2 year old.  it might be time for Pitbull Lovers to check the credentials of their babysitter, as it regularly maims, mauls and kills children.

http://www.ksn.com/news/local/story/2-year-old-Topeka-girl-dies-after-pit-bull-attack/2Mw7_uEBCUKNayGAWgNKsA.cspx
Oh nooeeesss, not a whopping 20 people in a whole year!

No one gives a shit about your witch hunts dude. If you got bit by a Pomeranian you'd be crying for them to be banned, you are a whiny pussy.

Reach between your legs, grab your nuts, realize your a man, and stop being such a bitch.
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« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2012, 08:20:28 PM »

i have a 2 year old blue eyed gray pitbull here is a pic of BRUCE (ALL MIGHTY) as a puppy



Good Lord Almighty that is a cute, blue-eyed, snuggly-wuggly puppy.
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« Reply #30 on: December 17, 2012, 08:21:43 PM »

Every Pit i've encountered has been super friendly and loving. Of course, they have decent owners that raised them well.
Pitbulls have always been involved in attacks, as far back as 1909, famous pit bull breeder, John P. Colby's Fighting Pit Bull brutally killed his 2 year old nephew.  This was hardly  deterrent to John, as he continued breeding Pitbulls until the day he died.  Family members being killed by a Pitbull is only a small hump in the road for a dedicated Pit Nutter.  

Also the way you raise a Pitbull has little to no effect on it's temperament, this is a myth spread by those who don't know any better.  Studies on wolves (wolves and dogs are almost genetically identical - all dogs are actually a sub species of the wolf) Their was a study done on wolves comparing nature vs. nurture that demonstrated no amount of love or nurturing of wolf pups affected its inevitable temperament and nature. You can't love the WILD out of the WOLF, in other words raising a wolf pup with love and nurturing does not see any improvements in the wolves’ temperament or genetic inheritance. WOLVES STILL REMAIN WILD REGARDLESS IF THE WOLVES WERE RAISED WITH HUMANS WITH LOVE AND NURTURING OR REARED IN NATURE WITH THEIR PARENTS.   After two moths of being nurtured from pups they had to relese the wolves back into the wild as they were to wild to keep in a domestic setting.

Another study that is relevant was one using foxes, they were able to almost domestic foxes by selecting the least aggressive foxes from each litter and mating it with the least aggressive foxes from other litters. They also mated the most aggressive foxes from each litter with the most aggressive foxes from other litters. Within a few generations the researchers were able to create an almost domestic fox by interbreeding the least aggressive foxes together. And as you can imagine, after a few generations they also produced a very savage fox by breeding the most aggressive breeds together.

These two studies for me, are relevant to the current problem, Pitbulls were initially bred to be aggressive, and they were, very aggressive, DOGMEN understood it was in the genes and couldn't be trained out of them (just like in the WOLF study), but then the mainstream got hold of the breed, and have been trying to breed the game out of the dog all the while others are trying to breed it back in or retain it. And this is what makes the situation so dangerous, no one can tell any longer which dog carries the GAME gene and which one doesn't. It also explains why so many Owners claim their Pitbull is GENTLE, it's because there Pitbull is GENTLE, NOT because the Owner has somehow loved the game out of them, their Pitbull is one of the breeders successful attempts at breeding the game out of the breed. (In other words, a DUD pitbull).

This also explains why so many well cared for family Pitbulls suddenly snap and maim, maul and kill.  Pointers point, Beagles bugle, Heelers round up cattle, greyhounds run fast and Pitbulls MAUL.  These breeds don't need to be taught that, they do it wheter or not you train them too, as it's in their genetic coding.  A Pitbulls genetics is what determines it's behaviour, and not the SUPER NURTURING abilities of a Pitbull Nutter.  

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« Reply #31 on: December 17, 2012, 08:25:05 PM »

Pitbulls killed by blah blah blah blah blah
Don't give a shit dude, don't care to read about your pointless rants on things that scare you.
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« Reply #32 on: December 17, 2012, 08:27:44 PM »

Oh nooeeesss, not a whopping 20 people in a whole year!

No one gives a shit about your witch hunts dude. If you got bit by a Pomeranian you'd be crying for them to be banned, you are a whiny pussy.

Reach between your legs, grab your nuts, realize your a man, and stop being such a bitch.
Your naivety knows no limits, like most people I have been bitten by a normal dog, no sweat, unlike the attack by two Pitbulls that left me with a severed achilles tendon and was unable to WALK for six months and left me permanently injured.  As a MAN, I can say I have taken on TWO PITBULLS and survived, and as of yet, I am yet to find a man willing to replicate the feat.  I credit my strong constitution, health and fitness for surviving the attack.  It comes as no surprise to me your views, Pitbulls attract the deeply insecure, simple minded and fearful individuals, they look for qualities in their pet that they themselves could never posses.
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« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2012, 08:29:07 PM »

Quote from the recent study Mortality, Mauling, and Maiming by Vicious Dogs 2011

Over a recent 3-year period from January 2006 to March 30, 2009, a total of 98 dog bite fatalities involving 179 dogs occurred; 60% of the deaths were caused by pit bulls, and 76% were caused by pit bulls and Rottweilers. A total of 113 pit bulls were involved in these deaths, and they accounted for 63% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks. If the risk of fatal attack is normalized to Labrador Retrievers and Labrador-mix breeds (the most common registered dog in the United States), the relative risk of death related to pit bull attacks is more than 2500 times higher.

In one 85-day period from July to September 2008, pit bulls were involved in 127 dog attacks, 57% of which occurred off the owner’s property. In these attacks, 158 people were injured, 63% of them severely; 10% of the victims suffered severed body parts; and 6 victims were killed. 12 In the same period, 128 dangerous pit bulls had to be shot to death by police officers or citizens. A closer look at these figures indicates that 1 person is killed by a pit bull every 14 days, a person loses a body part to a pit bull attack every 5.4 days, 2 persons are injured by pit bulls each day, and 1.5 pit bulls are shot to death each day.

Dog bites are a serious public health concern in the United States and across the world. They result in substantial emotional and physical trauma and in a substantial economic cost to the victims and to society. Fortunately, fatal dog attacks are rare, but there seems to be a distinct relationship between the severity and lethality of an attack and the breed of dog responsible. The unacceptable actuarial risk associated with certain breeds of dogs (specifically, pit bulls) must be addressed. These breeds should be regulated in the same way in which other dangerous species, such as leopards.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sounds like a wonderful pet if your a sociopathic redneck arsehole!
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« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2012, 08:31:28 PM »

Your naivety knows no limits, like most people I have been bitten by a normal dog, no sweat, unlike the attack by two Pitbulls that left me with a severed achilles tendon and was unable to WALK for six months and left me permanently injured.  As a MAN, I can say I have taken on TWO PITBULLS and survived, and as of yet, I am yet to find a man willing to replicate the feat.  I credit my strong constitution, health and fitness for surviving the attack.  It comes as no surprise to me your views, Pitbulls attract the deeply insecure, simple minded and fearful individuals, they look for qualities in their pet that they themselves could never posses.
Don't own and have never owned a Pitbull. Unlike you, I'm not scared shitless of everything that has the potential to kill me.

And you are still a bitch, constantly whining and crying about every little thing that you want banned because it's scary or you got hurt by it. Grow the fuck up and quit crying.

Strong constitution my ass, your're a fucking crybaby.
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« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2012, 09:51:12 PM »

Don't own and have never owned a Pitbull. Unlike you, I'm not scared shitless of everything that has the potential to kill me.

And you are still a bitch, constantly whining and crying about every little thing that you want banned because it's scary or you got hurt by it. Grow the fuck up and quit crying.

Strong constitution my ass, your're a fucking crybaby.
HA HA, Your insecurity is really starting to show it's head now.  Stop bitching and crying because you can't stand other peoples opinion and have anything you want.  You remind me of a little whiny spoilt bitch who spits the dummy every-time you don't get what you want or hear what you want to hear!   
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« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2012, 10:05:04 PM »

If I had a pit bull, I would call him Time Westcock.
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« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2012, 10:07:38 PM »

HA HA, Your insecurity is really starting to show it's head now.  Stop bitching and crying because you can't stand other peoples opinion and have anything you want.  You remind me of a little whiny spoilt bitch who spits the dummy every-time you don't get what you want or hear what you want to hear!   
Lol at you thinking that not caring about your childish rants somehow makes me insecure. Brutal logic fail.
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« Reply #38 on: December 17, 2012, 10:16:40 PM »

gorgeous, do they still cut the ears like that? Last dog I had was a German mini schnauzer which my wife brought with her in our marriage - she had her ears like that as well, if I had to choose between an american bulldog or staffy or what ever and or a Schnauzer it would be hard, Schnauzers are such awesome strong minded dogs and so much fun to have around, we had to sadly put her asleep she got cancer, the only good thing was that we did not have to bring her to the doctor, her mother is a nurse so she brought the meds home we all were around here (at that stage she couldn't get up anymore) she got cuddled and her mom gave her the injection, she just yellped and tried to get up but than drifted away.

Best dog there is, no question
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« Reply #39 on: December 17, 2012, 10:18:44 PM »



You've almost surpassed garebear as the biggest dumb fuck on this forum... Keep it up...  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 10:19:55 PM »

you are a whiny pussy.

He posted in some thread recently saying how he got beat as a child.  Wonder if that has something to do with it?

Huh
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« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2012, 06:04:20 AM »

Lol at you thinking that not caring about your childish rants somehow makes me insecure. Brutal logic fail.
People who don't care, don't comment and don't resort to feeble attempts at emasculation.  You have your point of view, and I have mine, I like to destroy unreasonable arguments with truth and reason as a counter to dangerous propaganda, you on the other hand, like most people with views and ideologies that negatively impact on civilised communities, gather with like minded people and rather than use persuasive arguments to win people over, you resort to insults, abuse and ridicule in a vain attempt to dissuade others from opposing your view, the sad part is, even if you succeed in putting people off, you can't destroy the facts or the ideas they were espousing.
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« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2012, 07:54:56 AM »

Ekulo still overly concerned with what freedoms Americans have while he lives in a mud hut in the outback hiding from dogs.
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« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2012, 08:44:34 AM »

Ekulo still overly concerned with what freedoms Americans have while he lives in a mud hut in the outback hiding from dogs.

all while not acknowledging that dogs are a product of their environment. there's a reason that over 90% of dog attacks happen in impoverished areas.
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« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2012, 08:46:31 AM »

i have a 10 month old english staff for trial now, cutest bugger ever. 90% chans im going to keep it
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« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2012, 08:52:54 AM »

i have a 10 month old english staff for trial now, cutest bugger ever. 90% chans im going to keep it

this statement is indicative of the wrong type of person being attracted to a pit.  Why a "90% chance??"  Why would anyone get a dog if they didn't plan on keeping it? Sounds like dark skin thinking to me.
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« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2012, 09:01:28 AM »

People who don't care, don't comment and don't resort to feeble attempts at emasculation.  You have your point of view, and I have mine, I like to destroy unreasonable arguments with truth and reason as a counter to dangerous propaganda, you on the other hand, like most people with views and ideologies that negatively impact on civilised communities, gather with like minded people and rather than use persuasive arguments to win people over, you resort to insults, abuse and ridicule in a vain attempt to dissuade others from opposing your view, the sad part is, even if you succeed in putting people off, you can't destroy the facts or the ideas they were espousing.
No, I just don't respect you enough to waste my time actually arguing with you since everything you do is based on fear and emotion.

You're like that kid that gets burned so he never goes near heat again and won't stfu to everyone about how dangerous it is, or the kid that has a bad experience in the pool so he'll never go near the pool again and constantly tells all his friends how bad pools are.

After a while you get so sick of hearing the same tired fear mongering horseshit that you simply start telling them to kindly fuck off.

I don't think it's my place to dictate how other people should live their lives because I don't agree with one of their hobbies or I'm scared of something they own. Clearly you do.

It's fine you're scared of everything that casts a shadow, I don't give a shit.
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« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 09:02:19 AM »

this statement is indicative of the wrong type of person being attracted to a pit.  Why a "90% chance??"  Why would anyone get a dog if they didn't plan on keeping it? Sounds like dark skin thinking to me.
im having her for 2 days to see how she is then she is going back to the owners until i decide, she came 30 minutes ago, i havent barely met her....but i know what you mean. this is not my first staff and the attract the wrong people
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chaos
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« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2012, 10:24:55 AM »

No, I just don't respect you enough to waste my time
Should have stopped there. Grin
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Liar!!!!Filt!!!!
arce1988
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« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2012, 03:41:33 PM »

  I would keep them away from children
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