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Author Topic: If God is the all being, then where did he/she come from?  (Read 4240 times)
haider
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« Reply #75 on: December 30, 2012, 07:45:26 PM »

Aliens.
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« Reply #76 on: December 31, 2012, 12:05:07 AM »

Both scenario's are mind boggling and both have no rational explanation. So either way whether you go with God or you go with no God you are confronted with something that defies logic, explanation is contrary to the laws of physics.

Except that going with "God" merely adds an extra step and explains nothing; it merely pushes the explanation further away.

If we didn't know how rain forms, then for you to suggest that there is a mystical, unexplainable, supernatural rain god causes rain.


There is only 3 possible scenarios Einstein;

Really?


1. God

That explains nothing.

A beginning which does not make sense and not rational or no beginning which also makes no sense or is not rational, take your pick.

The Christian god supposedly has no beginning either. By your definition above, he doesn't make sense and is not rational.
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« Reply #77 on: December 31, 2012, 02:32:07 AM »

Except that going with "God" merely adds an extra step and explains nothing; it merely pushes the explanation further away.

If we didn't know how rain forms, then for you to suggest that there is a mystical, unexplainable, supernatural rain god causes rain.


Really?


That explains nothing.

The Christian god supposedly has no beginning either. By your definition above, he doesn't make sense and is not rational.
No shit ding dong
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avxo
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« Reply #78 on: December 31, 2012, 02:40:06 AM »

No shit ding dong

So you believe in something nonsensical and irrational? Why believe it at all? Do you hold other nonsensical and irrational beliefs as well? And while I have your attention, there is something I'd like to ask you. Earlier I wrote:

Except that going with "God" merely adds an extra step and explains nothing; it merely pushes the explanation further away.

Can you tell me what the purpose in postulating a God is when that postulate explains nothing and helps answers none of the questions since all it does is function as an indirection?
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« Reply #79 on: December 31, 2012, 02:56:20 AM »

So you believe in something nonsensical and irrational? Why believe it at all? Do you hold other nonsensical and irrational beliefs as well? And while I have your attention, there is something I'd like to ask you. Earlier I wrote:

Can you tell me what the purpose in postulating a God is when that postulate explains nothing and helps answers none of the questions since all it does is function as an indirection?
At the end of the day we have only one of 3 options I listed. The only 3 possible options, all others fall into one of the three. So I can choose to be like you and not pick one or I can pick one, either way any one of them that ends up being the truth is nonsensical and irrational so you believe in something nonsensical and irrational too.


Now about the purpose of postulating a God? well, I don`t know if I would put it that way, but anyhow makes no difference, I will explain since you asked. I sense the presence of the Holy spirit and I am as sure of that as I am as sure as I am looking at my computer screen. Now for some strange reason if it ends up that I am really not looking at my computer screen then my brains playing tricks with me I guess. Smiley
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« Reply #80 on: December 31, 2012, 03:50:16 AM »

At the end of the day we have only one of 3 options I listed. The only 3 possible options, all others fall into one of the three. So I can choose to be like you and not pick one or I can pick one, either way any one of them that ends up being the truth is nonsensical and irrational so you believe in something nonsensical and irrational too.

I actually do pick an option, although it's not really one you list in your "three possibilities": I believe, based on the evidence available to us as of recently, that the current scientific understanding of the Big Bang is roughly correct; it may require polishing and tweaks, but I think that the basics are there. So I believe that there was a "beginning" and that there will be some "end". I put the words in quote because I believe that the words imply temporal and causal notions and since time is a property of the Universe, those words only have meaning within the Universe.

So in my view while time is both finite and infinite, depending on how you look at it. Let's imagine an observer O:

  • To an imaginary O outside the Universe and able to somehow perceive and measure the time dimension of our Universe separately from the Universe itself, there would be a "limited" and finite amount of time.
  • To an imaginary O inside the Universe, however, time is infinite and would appear as never-ending; assume that O cannot die and simply counts time to determine if it is finite or infinite. O will count time forever, and will never know that time has ended, even if he is the last thing contained in the Universe to be destroyed during the "end" right before the Universe (and therefore time).

Notice that our imaginary observer could detect the beginning of time whether he is inside or outside the Universe. It should be obvious that this is the case when O is outside the Universe. But what about inside? Assume, again, that the observer "blips" into existence along with the Universe. Then the beginning of time is the time at which the observer's counter is 0.


Now about the purpose of postulating a God? well, I don`t know if I would put it that way, but anyhow makes no difference, I will explain since you asked. I sense the presence of the Holy spirit and I am as sure of that as I am as sure as I am looking at my computer screen. Now for some strange reason if it ends up that I am really not looking at my computer screen then my brains playing tricks with me I guess. Smiley

Fair enough. I am sure that a personal revelation is powerful thing, and you've experienced something which you interpret as such, good for you. But that cannot be used as proof or evidence of anything in a rational debate on the subject for reasons I would hope are obvious.

Let me ask you a follow-up: On a purely rational and scientific level, do you see why "god" isn't an answer and doesn't help us in any way? How does it help to say, for example, that the Universe requires a creator if you then rush to add this creator does not require one?
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« Reply #81 on: December 31, 2012, 05:17:04 AM »

When the scientist and Roman Catholic priest Georges Lemaître first proposed what became known as the Big Bang theory, Einstein initially dismissed the theory without thought or consideration, in part because it came from a priest and because it implied "Creation" and a "Creator." 

Einstein was quick to endorse both Lemaître and his theory only after Hubble confirmed the theory.


Georges Lemaître

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Onetimehard
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« Reply #82 on: December 31, 2012, 08:09:48 AM »

I actually do pick an option, although it's not really one you list in your "three possibilities": I believe, based on the evidence available to us as of recently, that the current scientific understanding of the Big Bang is roughly correct; it may require polishing and tweaks, but I think that the basics are there. So I believe that there was a "beginning" and that there will be some "end". I put the words in quote because I believe that the words imply temporal and causal notions and since time is a property of the Universe, those words only have meaning within the Universe.

So in my view while time is both finite and infinite, depending on how you look at it. Let's imagine an observer O:

  • To an imaginary O outside the Universe and able to somehow perceive and measure the time dimension of our Universe separately from the Universe itself, there would be a "limited" and finite amount of time.
  • To an imaginary O inside the Universe, however, time is infinite and would appear as never-ending; assume that O cannot die and simply counts time to determine if it is finite or infinite. O will count time forever, and will never know that time has ended, even if he is the last thing contained in the Universe to be destroyed during the "end" right before the Universe (and therefore time).

Notice that our imaginary observer could detect the beginning of time whether he is inside or outside the Universe. It should be obvious that this is the case when O is outside the Universe. But what about inside? Assume, again, that the observer "blips" into existence along with the Universe. Then the beginning of time is the time at which the observer's counter is 0.


Fair enough. I am sure that a personal revelation is powerful thing, and you've experienced something which you interpret as such, good for you. But that cannot be used as proof or evidence of anything in a rational debate on the subject for reasons I would hope are obvious.

Let me ask you a follow-up: On a purely rational and scientific level, do you see why "god" isn't an answer and doesn't help us in any way? How does it help to say, for example, that the Universe requires a creator if you then rush to add this creator does not require one?
I don`t say that the earth requires a creator or I don`t think in the manner you suggested above so your question is pointless as I don`t hold that view, you are going to have to ask someone that does hold that view.

Now as far as you not picking one of the 3, yes you did, you picked ``a beginning`stop lying. As for your explanation, I already told you I get it and agree with it but for some reason you keep feeling the need to repeat yourself. Now I know beginning and end are restrained within the concept of space and time or our reality, but the fact remains although you can`t ask what was before (for reasons you stated) cause the word before would not apply outside of our existence it still makes no sense and it is still a nonsensical and irrational no matter how much you try to twist and turn it with your manipulative terminology the fact that existence had a beginning at all is still nonsensical and irrational.
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garebear
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« Reply #83 on: December 31, 2012, 10:11:12 AM »

Jesus is what done it.

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« Reply #84 on: December 31, 2012, 10:24:59 AM »

Jesus is what done it.


Jesus is what done what?
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garebear
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« Reply #85 on: December 31, 2012, 10:34:48 AM »

Jesus is what done what?
Doesn't matter.

Just agree.

It's in the bible, stupid.

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« Reply #86 on: December 31, 2012, 11:50:36 AM »

Doesn't matter.

Just agree.

It's in the bible, stupid.


Huh Huh Tongue
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