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Author Topic: If God is the all being, then where did he/she come from?  (Read 4605 times)
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« Reply #50 on: December 27, 2012, 06:59:23 PM »

god has had and has eternal mass

eternal means no begining and likely no end

because it IS that way

time as we know it today is EXACTLY the same as it was zillions upon zillions of years ago

experts wanna say big bang this evolution that but they are dead wrong

going back in time  just takes you down the road of change but not a beginning since there are no beginning

im sure there are cycles of mass if you go back in time you will see patterns but no true "beginning" as we wish to define it
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« Reply #51 on: December 27, 2012, 07:44:16 PM »

I've heard many religious people mock the big bang theory because they question that how did nothing turn into something.  But then in that same thought, where did God come from? 

I have no idea.  I am however, not "religious".  Allow me if you will, to ask you this question.

Do you tell children everything, even when it is beyond their ability to understand?  I seriously doubt it and I know from experience as I am a father.

Be well, sir.
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« Reply #52 on: December 27, 2012, 07:45:13 PM »

I have no idea.  I am however, not "religious".  Allow me if you will, to ask you this question.

Do you tell children everything, even when it is beyond their ability to understand?  I seriously doubt it and I know from experience as I am a father.

Be well, sir.
Interesting
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« Reply #53 on: December 27, 2012, 07:46:27 PM »

Interesting

And, I trust...Enlightening. 

Be well in all ways and for always.
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« Reply #54 on: December 28, 2012, 05:48:48 AM »


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« Reply #55 on: December 28, 2012, 09:43:40 AM »

Jon shut the fuck up. Your not doing any good by acting like you know god is a fact.  Your only looking like a fucking jackass.

I'm not acting like I know it, I KNOW it because it's manifestly true. Clowns like you were patently created by God yet you rail against His very existence.
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« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2012, 10:38:22 AM »

I have no idea.  I am however, not "religious".  Allow me if you will, to ask you this question.

Do you tell children everything, even when it is beyond their ability to understand?  I seriously doubt it and I know from experience as I am a father.

Be well, sir.

You know, this is a very simple perspective I've tried to explain to others.  I used too many words and probably left my audience saying, "Huh?" though.  What you posted is simple and easy to grasp.  I also used the "parent to child" analogy, but my audience was young, single guys that had no such perspective.  So I tried the "Mothman Prophecies" movie logic LOL.  Within that film, a professor explains to an average man who's been confronted by the mothmen and who was not given an explanation for their presence in his life and has sought out the professor for guidance.  The professor asked the man, "You're more advanced than a cockroach, have you ever tried explaining yourself to one of them?"

The other thing I try and explain to nonbelievers is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers.   The Lord has made his presence very evident in my life repeatedly and tangibly....he's changed me.  He's done this for millions of other believers as well, but because God hasn't explained to me his pre-creation history doesn't negate the revelation he has provided me in my life (and that revelation is enough for me to belief).  Still, therein lies the ole (wait for it) notion of faith and/or the idea that a transcendent God (although still personal to believers) has qualities simply beyond our ability to comprehend.
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« Reply #57 on: December 28, 2012, 10:56:00 AM »

You know, this is a very simple perspective I've tried to explain to others.  I used too many words and probably left my audience saying, "Huh?" though.  What you posted is simple and easy to grasp.  I also used the "parent to child" analogy, but my audience was young, single guys that had no such perspective.  So I tried the "Mothman Prophecies" movie logic LOL.  Within that film, a professor explains to an average man who's been confronted by the mothmen and who was not given an explanation for their presence in his life and has sought out the professor for guidance.  The professor asked the man, "You're more advanced than a cockroach, have you ever tried explaining yourself to one of them?"

The other thing I try and explain to nonbelievers is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers.   The Lord has made his presence very evident in my life repeatedly and tangibly....he's changed me.  He's done this for millions of other believers as well, but because God hasn't explained to me his pre-creation history doesn't negate the revelation he has provided me in my life (and that revelation is enough for me to belief).  Still, therein lies the ole (wait for it) notion of faith and/or the idea that a transcendent God (although still personal to believers) has qualities simply beyond our ability to comprehend.
Would you have been Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?
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« Reply #58 on: December 28, 2012, 11:01:44 AM »

Would you have been Christian if you were born in Saudi Arabia?


I really couldn't say, but I am so thankful I was born in the United States.  Still, my Christian family lived next door to many families all born in the US, in Texas that had no religious affiliations whatsoever. 

What I can do is ask those families from Saudi Arabia and other areas of the middle east in my church that are Christians.
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« Reply #59 on: December 28, 2012, 07:31:25 PM »

I'm not acting like I know it, I KNOW it because it's manifestly true. Clowns like you were patently created by God yet you rail against His very existence.
i spend more time arguing with atheists than you could possibly imagine. and i do it in real life. i dont go around saying i know god exists because im not a damn fool. but i do go around pointing out concepts like causality, free will, infinite divisibility of matter, eternity infinite and perfection, the human conscience, etc in an attempt to persuade people to see the "light" if you will. i think a god does exist. but thats as far as an honest person can take their faith.
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« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2012, 07:33:01 PM »

You know, this is a very simple perspective I've tried to explain to others.  I used too many words and probably left my audience saying, "Huh?" though.  What you posted is simple and easy to grasp.  I also used the "parent to child" analogy, but my audience was young, single guys that had no such perspective.  So I tried the "Mothman Prophecies" movie logic LOL.  Within that film, a professor explains to an average man who's been confronted by the mothmen and who was not given an explanation for their presence in his life and has sought out the professor for guidance.  The professor asked the man, "You're more advanced than a cockroach, have you ever tried explaining yourself to one of them?"

The other thing I try and explain to nonbelievers is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers.   The Lord has made his presence very evident in my life repeatedly and tangibly....he's changed me.  He's done this for millions of other believers as well, but because God hasn't explained to me his pre-creation history doesn't negate the revelation he has provided me in my life (and that revelation is enough for me to belief).  Still, therein lies the ole (wait for it) notion of faith and/or the idea that a transcendent God (although still personal to believers) has qualities simply beyond our ability to comprehend.
  when life (god) teaches you things, opens up your heart and mind, fills you with love and joy and assurance of eternity..    thatrs great and you SHOULD take it as evidence of gods existence.  but what you shouldnt do is take it as evidence of your religious dogma (christianity)
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« Reply #61 on: December 28, 2012, 07:34:54 PM »

I really couldn't say, but I am so thankful I was born in the United States.  Still, my Christian family lived next door to many families all born in the US, in Texas that had no religious affiliations whatsoever. 

What I can do is ask those families from Saudi Arabia and other areas of the middle east in my church that are Christians.
you would be a muslim and you would be preaching about how god has revealed himself to you and how that is proof of muhammad's holiness, etc. just like you now use god's revelations as proof of christianity.  people all throughout history have taken gods light and turned it into evidence of their personal cultural dogma. its extremely sad.
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« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2012, 07:45:50 AM »

You know, this is a very simple perspective I've tried to explain to others.  I used too many words and probably left my audience saying, "Huh?" though.  What you posted is simple and easy to grasp.  I also used the "parent to child" analogy, but my audience was young, single guys that had no such perspective.  So I tried the "Mothman Prophecies" movie logic LOL.  Within that film, a professor explains to an average man who's been confronted by the mothmen and who was not given an explanation for their presence in his life and has sought out the professor for guidance.  The professor asked the man, "You're more advanced than a cockroach, have you ever tried explaining yourself to one of them?"

The other thing I try and explain to nonbelievers is the presence of the Holy Spirit in the lives of believers.   The Lord has made his presence very evident in my life repeatedly and tangibly....he's changed me.  He's done this for millions of other believers as well, but because God hasn't explained to me his pre-creation history doesn't negate the revelation he has provided me in my life (and that revelation is enough for me to belief).  Still, therein lies the ole (wait for it) notion of faith and/or the idea that a transcendent God (although still personal to believers) has qualities simply beyond our ability to comprehend.

I have finally learned to accept that not everyone will believe in the Christ.  Not everyone wants to.  That is their choice just as mine is to believe.  I no longer care about their choice for it has zero effect upon how I live my life.  However when someone is just plain ignorant like tbombz or rude such as garebear I have no problem stating such.  An evil "faith" such as Islam is something I gladly speak out against.   It is in many ways worse than Catholicism.

I am not called to explain the beginnings of the Universe nor it's Creator.  Theoretical physicists attempt to do the former from a scientific aspect and near as I can tell, only fools attempt the latter. 

Nonbelievers expect a Christian to just roll over and take their insults, to be beaten to a pulp in every way imaginable.  Years ago a man said he was going to hit me because he despised my faith and I was going to have to take his beating because of my faith.  I would have to turn the other cheek to prove my beliefs.  We were in front of many people as it was just after work and off work grounds.  I thought for a minute and told him this.

Once he hit me I would decide whether or not his act was because he was testing my faith or because he was suicidal.  He walked away without ever delivering a single blow.

Here is wisdom for all who would hear...We are to do our best to live our faith, but not every "test" is one for which we must die for it.    Be well. 
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« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2012, 10:38:44 AM »

  when life (god) teaches you things, opens up your heart and mind, fills you with love and joy and assurance of eternity..    thatrs great and you SHOULD take it as evidence of gods existence.  but what you shouldnt do is take it as evidence of your religious dogma (christianity)
I understand your perspective and I respect your words, but I don't possess a merely cerebral notion of God in my life.  I have a personal, tangible, consistently recurring encounter and relationship with the Holy Spirit.  The same "helper" (essence/person of God) that came at Pentecost once Jesus Christ left this earth.   It's not merely Christian dogma, it's real, tangible proof of Christ in the lives of his believers.  I repeat this time and time again (not to be annoying or arrogant), and it's often brushed off as emotional prattle.  The reality is, the Holy Spirit is essential - the most compelling evidence of God I know.
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« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2012, 10:42:56 AM »

I understand your perspective and I respect your words, but I don't possess a merely cerebral notion of God in my life.  I have a personal, tangible, consistently recurring encounter and relationship with the Holy Spirit.  The same "helper" (essence/person of God) that came at Pentecost once Jesus Christ left this earth.   It's not merely Christian dogma, it's real, tangible proof of Christ in the lives of his believers.  I repeat this time and time again (not to be annoying or arrogant), and it's often brushed off as emotional prattle.  The reality is, the Holy Spirit is essential - the most compelling evidence of God I know.

And I not only am happy for you, but somewhat envious as well.  What you have is but one aspect of our faith that I seek. 
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« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2012, 10:59:55 AM »

you would be a muslim and you would be preaching about how god has revealed himself to you and how that is proof of muhammad's holiness, etc. just like you now use god's revelations as proof of christianity.  people all throughout history have taken gods light and turned it into evidence of their personal cultural dogma. its extremely sad.

I hear what you're saying, but the reality is there is no personal relationship between Muslim and Allah.  There is no sacrifice by Allah or gift of salvation.  There is no Holy Spirit of Allah made manifest in the lives of Muslims.   Allah does not lower himself or personally interact with his followers...he is purely transcendent.  The Muslim seeks paradise with Allah purely by works and there's no guarantee that the Muslim will be granted access to Allah's paradise.

Of course a person born in one country or another is most likely going to be exposed to the predominant religion, food, art, music, etc... of that country/region, but that argument means nothing more than that.  It certainly does nothing to negate Christianity. There is one God in Jesus Christ made manifest in the lives of believers through the Holy Spirit and regardless of where you were born Jesus Christ is available to all.  That's why Christians are commanded to spread the good news of the gospel to the world.  We can't sit idly by and let Satan consume Muslims by the millions year after year or allow areas of India and China (Asia) to remain untouched by the gospel of Christ.

Competing faith systems such as Islam stand in direct opposition to Christianity and denies every foundational tenet of Christianity.  I fully believe that Muhammed did receive the Quran from a higher power, but not from Allah through the angel Gabriel/Jibril...the Quran came directly from Satan himself (he was disguised himself as an angel of light).  Islam is one of Satan's most clever, deceitful tricks in mankind's history.
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« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2012, 11:02:17 AM »

And I not only am happy for you, but somewhat envious as well.  What you have is but one aspect of our faith that I seek. 

Trust me, I was far, far away the Holy Spirit in my recent past.  The Lord broke me down to the ground before I fully surrendered to his will.  Once I did my life has never been the same.  I'm learning every single day what it means to surrender, love others, have faith and seek God's will.
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« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2012, 01:07:08 PM »

I hear what you're saying, but the reality is there is no personal relationship between Muslim and Allah.  There is no sacrifice by Allah or gift of salvation.  There is no Holy Spirit of Allah made manifest in the lives of Muslims.   Allah does not lower himself or personally interact with his followers...he is purely transcendent.  The Muslim seeks paradise with Allah purely by works and there's no guarantee that the Muslim will be granted access to Allah's paradise.

Of course a person born in one country or another is most likely going to be exposed to the predominant religion, food, art, music, etc... of that country/region, but that argument means nothing more than that.  It certainly does nothing to negate Christianity. There is one God in Jesus Christ made manifest in the lives of believers through the Holy Spirit and regardless of where you were born Jesus Christ is available to all.  That's why Christians are commanded to spread the good news of the gospel to the world.  We can't sit idly by and let Satan consume Muslims by the millions year after year or allow areas of India and China (Asia) to remain untouched by the gospel of Christ.

Competing faith systems such as Islam stand in direct opposition to Christianity and denies every foundational tenet of Christianity.  I fully believe that Muhammed did receive the Quran from a higher power, but not from Allah through the angel Gabriel/Jibril...the Quran came directly from Satan himself (he was disguised himself as an angel of light).  Islam is one of Satan's most clever, deceitful tricks in mankind's history.

wow...are you kidding me MOS, going directly on attacks huh?

1. what do you call praying 5 times a day? prostrating directly to God the way Abraham, moses, jesus and Muhammad all did? there is VERY personal connection between Allah and Human beings(people who worship God alone, and dont say lies against God, like how he has a son). you pray to HIM alone, worship HIM, ask HIM for forgiveness, ask HIM for help. Do good deeeds, abstain from bad. thats how you get to heaven.

2. only thing which came from Satan is certain people saying God has a son. I mean think, accepct Jesus as the son of God and you admited into heaven? thats nothing but wishful thinking! Do good you get good, do bad you get bad, its simple.

3. Jesus died for you sins  Roll Eyes So all i have to do is believe in that, then i can go get drunk. have sex with anyone i want, kill some people, robbery, rape, lie, do all things God has said not to do but since i think jesus died for my sins Im all good right? LOL thats sounds like satans work to me.

4. Jesus said NONE of the things you claim he says about being God, thats the dirty work of Paul. if you or anyone other modern christians went back to Jesus time he wouldnt recognize you as one of his followers, becuase neither him, not his diciples taught/said anything close to what you people say.

5. After jesus departed from this Earth, Jesus followers still worshiped as the jews worshiped in synogauges(funny how Modern day jews today accecpt that muslims worship the god of abraham and chrsitians dont, that alone tells you whos right whose worng), Jesus brought the renewal of the laws of Moses, not a whole diffrent idea that he is God, again this is the work of PUAL. the orginal chrsitians considerd themselves jews who followed Jesus as a prophet. the trintiy didnt come about until the 3rd century of the church (325 AD). for 300 years people followed jesus and worshiped like he did, then certain devaints started to change things.

6. Your bible has been touched thats why there are so many diffrent versions! the word of God has dozenns of versions? how is that?

7. Most importantly-
the Word Trinity isnt in the Bible!


8. lastly,  your friend Paul never walked,talked, ate  and never learned with jesus! the trinity is  somthing he formulated off a vision he said he had! that sounds like satan work 100%!! and funny he had this vision while he was on the road to damascus to persecute christians!


sorry to be so rude, but calling someones religion from satan is unaccecptable, even more so when your own religion (christianity) has more holes then swiss cheese.
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« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2012, 03:12:32 PM »

wow...are you kidding me MOS, going directly on attacks huh?

1. there is VERY personal connection between Allah and Human beings(people who worship God alone, and dont say lies against God, like how he has a son). you pray to HIM alone, worship HIM, ask HIM for forgiveness, ask HIM for help. Do good deeeds, abstain from bad. thats how you get to heaven.

2. only thing which came from Satan is certain people saying God has a son. I mean think, accepct Jesus as the son of God and you admited into heaven? thats nothing but wishful thinking! Do good you get good, do bad you get bad, its simple.

3. Jesus died for you sins  Roll Eyes So all i have to do is believe in that, then i can go get drunk. have sex with anyone i want, kill some people, robbery, rape, lie, do all things God has said not to do but since i think jesus died for my sins Im all good right? LOL thats sounds like satans work to me.

4. Jesus said NONE of the things you claim he says about being God, thats the dirty work of Paul. if you or anyone other modern christians went back to Jesus time he wouldnt recognize you as one of his followers, becuase neither him, not his diciples taught/said anything close to what you people say.

5. After jesus departed from this Earth, Jesus followers still worshiped as the jews worshiped in synogauges(funny how Modern day jews today accecpt that muslims worship the god of abraham and chrsitians dont, that alone tells you whos right whose worng), Jesus brought the renewal of the laws of Moses, not a whole diffrent idea that he is God, again this is the work of PUAL. the orginal chrsitians considerd themselves jews who followed Jesus as a prophet. the trintiy didnt come about until the 3rd century of the church (325 AD). for 300 years people followed jesus and worshiped like he did, then certain devaints started to change things.

6. Your bible has been touched thats why there are so many diffrent versions! the word of God has dozenns of versions? how is that?

7. Most importantly-
the Word Trinity isnt in the Bible!


8. lastly,  your friend Paul never walked,talked, ate  and never learned with jesus! the trinity is  somthing he formulated off a vision he said he had! that sounds like satan work 100%!! and funny he had this vision while he was on the road to damascus to persecute christians!


sorry to be so rude, but calling someones religion from satan is unaccecptable, even more so when your own religion (christianity) has more holes then swiss cheese.
C`mon bro you guys say the same stuff about Jesus. You say he is not the son of God., so now it`s an attack if MOS says something in the same regards towards Islam? Brother saying Jesus is not our saviour is the same as us claiming that Muhammad is a false prophet, no disrespect intended at all. This is what the Bible teaches us, our we suppose to go against what we believe? Don`t take this as an insult bro, we are debating here and it should be friendly, if you do not like it when a Christian believes that Islam is a false religion then simply don`t debate them. You are basically accusing Christians of doing something ``unacceptable``when all they are doing is following what the Bible says.
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« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »

wow...are you kidding me MOS, going directly on attacks huh?

1. what do you call praying 5 times a day? prostrating directly to God the way Abraham, moses, jesus and Muhammad all did? there is VERY personal connection between Allah and Human beings(people who worship God alone, and dont say lies against God, like how he has a son). you pray to HIM alone, worship HIM, ask HIM for forgiveness, ask HIM for help. Do good deeeds, abstain from bad. thats how you get to heaven.

2. only thing which came from Satan is certain people saying God has a son. I mean think, accepct Jesus as the son of God and you admited into heaven? thats nothing but wishful thinking! Do good you get good, do bad you get bad, its simple.

3. Jesus died for you sins  Roll Eyes So all i have to do is believe in that, then i can go get drunk. have sex with anyone i want, kill some people, robbery, rape, lie, do all things God has said not to do but since i think jesus died for my sins Im all good right? LOL thats sounds like satans work to me.

4. Jesus said NONE of the things you claim he says about being God, thats the dirty work of Paul. if you or anyone other modern christians went back to Jesus time he wouldnt recognize you as one of his followers, becuase neither him, not his diciples taught/said anything close to what you people say.

5. After jesus departed from this Earth, Jesus followers still worshiped as the jews worshiped in synogauges(funny how Modern day jews today accecpt that muslims worship the god of abraham and chrsitians dont, that alone tells you whos right whose worng), Jesus brought the renewal of the laws of Moses, not a whole diffrent idea that he is God, again this is the work of PUAL. the orginal chrsitians considerd themselves jews who followed Jesus as a prophet. the trintiy didnt come about until the 3rd century of the church (325 AD). for 300 years people followed jesus and worshiped like he did, then certain devaints started to change things.

6. Your bible has been touched thats why there are so many diffrent versions! the word of God has dozenns of versions? how is that?

7. Most importantly-
the Word Trinity isnt in the Bible!


8. lastly,  your friend Paul never walked,talked, ate  and never learned with jesus! the trinity is  somthing he formulated off a vision he said he had! that sounds like satan work 100%!! and funny he had this vision while he was on the road to damascus to persecute christians!


sorry to be so rude, but calling someones religion from satan is unaccecptable, even more so when your own religion (christianity) has more holes then swiss cheese.
I'm sincerely sorry if you felt insulted, but trust when I say it's not an attack.  I don't blame you for wanting to defend your faith....I really do understand that.  I dislike the theology of Islam, not Muslims.  Still, I can't sit by and simply let the truth go unsaid because Islam doesn't like it to hear it or read it.  There is no other way to turn from Satan's lies and begin a journey towards Christ unless the truth is aired openly.  And I already know there is absolutely no other way to say it gently than to just say it....I've tried and tried and tried.

Unfortunately I've already engaged in this same exchange with ahmed and bigbobs for several months, but I'll pray about addressing your points.  I have addressed all these points in the recent past, but I'll consider doing so again because I do believe you will discuss in an appropriate manner.  I should note that bigbobs is open for discussion (and I consider him a good man), but his mind is 100% made up (as is ahmed's) so I have moved on from further discussion with them in this regard.
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« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2012, 03:41:32 PM »

C`mon bro you guys say the same stuff about Jesus. You say he is not the son of God., so now it`s an attack if MOS says something in the same regards towards Islam? Brother saying Jesus is not our saviour is the same as us claiming that Muhammad is a false prophet, no disrespect intended at all. This is what the Bible teaches us, our we suppose to go against what we believe? Don`t take this as an insult bro, we are debating here and it should be friendly, if you do not like it when a Christian believes that Islam is a false religion then simply don`t debate them. You are basically accusing Christians of doing something ``unacceptable``when all they are doing is following what the Bible says.
Agreed.

For me, it's the Holy Spirit made manifest in my life that affirms Christ's divinity, resurrection, gift of salvation and Paul's ministry.
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« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2012, 05:58:48 PM »

C`mon bro you guys say the same stuff about Jesus. You say he is not the son of God., so now it`s an attack if MOS says something in the same regards towards Islam? Brother saying Jesus is not our saviour is the same as us claiming that Muhammad is a false prophet, no disrespect intended at all. This is what the Bible teaches us, our we suppose to go against what we believe? Don`t take this as an insult bro, we are debating here and it should be friendly, if you do not like it when a Christian believes that Islam is a false religion then simply don`t debate them. You are basically accusing Christians of doing something ``unacceptable``when all they are doing is following what the Bible says.

let me tell you somthing , I love jesus(pbuh), in fact I might even love him more then you two.  I have never ever said even ONCE jesus was somehow related to satan...never will never have! Jesus was a messenger of God, any disrespect or insults to him is somthing i wouldnt even dare to say.

it seems we have come to a point where debating is no longer productive. I just want to close with a few final thoughts and with chapter 109 from the Qu'ran, I will make it short as its time for the 5th prayer and i have to go.

Chapter 109: The Disbelievers 

Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship , Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.  For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

There is No God but Allah, and Muhammad, Jesus, Moses and Abraham(aswell as the other hundrends of thousands of prophets) are his messengers!

that being said, I wish you and your families all the best! May Allah Guide us all to the straight path, Maybe Bigbobs or Ahmed can take over, from here.
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« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2012, 06:35:38 PM »

let me tell you somthing , I love jesus(pbuh), in fact I might even love him more then you two.  I have never ever said even ONCE jesus was somehow related to satan...never will never have! Jesus was a messenger of God, any disrespect or insults to him is somthing i wouldnt even dare to say.

it seems we have come to a point where debating is no longer productive. I just want to close with a few final thoughts and with chapter 109 from the Qu'ran, I will make it short as its time for the 5th prayer and i have to go.

Chapter 109: The Disbelievers 

Say, "O disbelievers, I do not worship what you worship, Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship , Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship.  For you is your religion, and for me is my religion."

There is No God but Allah, and Muhammad, Jesus, Moses and Abraham(aswell as the other hundrends of thousands of prophets) are his messengers!

that being said, I wish you and your families all the best! May Allah Guide us all to the straight path, Maybe Bigbobs or Ahmed can take over, from here.
You are taking these things in the wrong way. Muslims are good people in my book and any thing that people say bad to Muslims should be said to the rotten apples not to Muslims as a whole. Now please try to understand that it is my duty as a CHRISTIAN to believe that any other scripture is not of God and it is therefore an ideology devised by Satan to fool the massas. Is Islam a Satanic religion? OF COURSE NOT, obviously no Muslim on the planet has the intention of being associated with Satan.

Now having said that as Muslims continue to worship God and do acts of kindness and try to spread peace it does not mean that they do not have a false ideology, as is our duty to believe so as Christians.

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« Reply #73 on: December 30, 2012, 02:28:51 PM »

1.what do you call praying 5 times a day? prostrating directly to God the way Abraham, moses, jesus and Muhammad all did? there is VERY personal connection between Allah and Human beings(people who worship God alone, and dont say lies against God, like how he has a son). you pray to HIM alone, worship HIM, ask HIM for forgiveness, ask HIM for help. Do good deeeds, abstain from bad. thats how you get to heaven.

Unfortunately I call that a manmade ritual.  Often times the religious rituals of men are empty acts.  Iím not suggesting your prayers are empty, but I am suggesting that a non-scriptural, manmade procedure can be completely empty.  It is not about works or procedure.   As weíve already discussed, prostration in prayer is not commanded in scripture.  Prostration in prayer was a spontaneous response to unbelievable stress or the presence of God for men like Abraham.  Christ prostrated himself in prayer because of the weight of mankindís sin upon him.  Within scripture we find descriptions of people standing, hands lifted, kneeling, prostrating and bowing in prayer.  None of these actions or bodily positions are required in prayer in though, but as Iíve said I have no issue with prostration in prayer.

2. only thing which came from Satan is certain people saying God has a son. I mean think, accepct Jesus as the son of God and you admited into heaven? thats nothing but wishful thinking! Do good you get good, do bad you get bad, its simple.


My friend, here in lies a tremendous lie (if not the greatest lie) from Satan.   When Christ was crucified and resurrected Satan then knew his time was short and that God had claimed victory over sin and death for all mankind.  Satan is the leader of this Earth and the absolute enemy of mankind.  To convince man that Christ was not crucified, not resurrected, is not the Son of God, that there is no salvation in Christ and that eternal life is attained by the works of manÖ ďDo good you get good, do bad you get badĒÖ..stands in direct opposition of Christ and his gift of salvation.  If it is stands in opposition of Christ or is the antithesis of Christ it is demonic in nature.

3. Jesus died for you sins    So all i have to do is believe in that, then i can go get drunk. have sex with anyone i want, kill some people, robbery, rape, lie, do all things God has said not to do but since i think jesus died for my sins Im all good right? LOL thats sounds like satans work to me.

Oh my goodness no!  Christís shed blood on the cross, that paid the price for our sins, is not a golden ticket that allows believers to ďgo forth and continue sinningĒ.   A believer in Christ confesses that they are a sinner, lays those sins at Christís feet on Calvaryís cross.  Those sins are covered and paid for by the shed blood of Christ on that cross and we are forgiven and given eternal life with our God, Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.  When the believer confesses  their sin and accepts Christ as Lord and Savior we are not only forgiven and indwelt with the Holy Spirit, but we are acknowledging that we are not only turning away from sin, but changing our minds completely in regards to sin and choosing to represent Christ and live a life as devoid of sin as possible.  This is repentance.  

Satanís handiwork lies in the notion that men and women donít need Christís shed blood on the cross and gift of salvation, that itís by our own works or good deeds that we atone for our sinsÖ.this path leads to death in sin.

4. Jesus said NONE of the things you claim he says about being God, thats the dirty work of Paul. if you or anyone other modern christians went back to Jesus time he wouldnt recognize you as one of his followers, becuase neither him, not his diciples taught/said anything close to what you people say.
 

My friend, here is another example of Satanís handiwork.  The denial of Paulís divinely inspired ministry by Jesus Christ as ďpaganĒ or ďof the corrupt Roman churchĒ is another lie of Satan.   Between myself, Butterbean, onetimehard, loco and others we have provided verse after verse of scripture affirming Christís divinity and Paulís ministry.  Although, this wasnít ďPaulís ministryĒ, this was Jesus Christís ministry.  Do you believe the gospels contain every word Christ spoke during his years of ministry?  

John 21:25
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

Christ used his disciples and apostles to carry on his message of love and salvation through their own ministry and missionary work.  Jesus disciples affirmed Paulís ministry as well.  Peter, part of Christís inner circle, fully affirms Paul:

2 Peter 3:14-18
14 So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him. 15 Bear in mind that our Lordís patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. 16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
17 Therefore, dear friends, since you have been forewarned, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of the lawless and fall from your secure position. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen.

5. After jesus departed from this Earth, Jesus followers still worshiped as the jews worshiped in synogauges(funny how Modern day jews today accecpt that muslims worship the god of abraham and chrsitians dont, that alone tells you whos right whose worng), Jesus brought the renewal of the laws of Moses, not a whole diffrent idea that he is God, again this is the work of PUAL. the orginal chrsitians considerd themselves jews who followed Jesus as a prophet. the trintiy didnt come about until the 3rd century of the church (325 AD). for 300 years people followed jesus and worshiped like he did, then certain devaints started to change things.
 

Admittedly this is discouraging, because it speaks to the notion that youíre turning a blind eye to the verses posted in so many different threads that affirm Christís divinity.   Not only have I, butterbean, onetimehard posted verse after verse in recent months, but loco has taken up the mantle and posted verse after verse after verse in recent weeks addressing the divinity of Christ.  If you refuse to read or read and refuse to acknowledge the words Iím helpless to assist other than to suggest taking it to the Lord in prayer.  

Romans 10:9
9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Become a believer indwelt with the Holy Spirit and experience the absolute, tangible evidence for Jesus Christ in  your own life.
 

6. Your bible has been touched thats why there are so many diffrent versions! the word of God has dozenns of versions? how is that?
 

Many people donít speak Latin, Hebrew or Araimaic so we have English translations.  Some donít find the KJV easy to read because of the somewhat antiquated language (the ďthees and thousĒ as it is often said).  The New Living Translation and others are completely faithful to some of the oldest manuscripts.  

7. Most importantly-
the Word Trinity isnt in the Bible!
 

Iíve never been clear why this idea is often the ďboom powĒ knockout punch?  The word trinity is not found in the bible, but the divinity of God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit all are. Most importantly, and as Iíve said repeatedly, the Holy Spirit indwells Christís body of believers today.  Further, calling upon the name of Jesus in moments of demonic attack is one of the most powerful weapons against the enemy I know.   These scriptural concepts are all fully demonstrated in the lives of believers and in scripture.    

8. lastly,  your friend Paul never walked,talked, ate  and never learned with jesus! the trinity is  somthing he formulated off a vision he said he had! that sounds like satan work 100%!! and funny he had this vision while he was on the road to damascus to persecute christians!
 

I suppose you can refer to my reply in point #4.   Christís inner circle affirms Paulís ministry.

sorry to be so rude, but calling someones religion from satan is unaccecptable, even more so when your own religion (christianity) has more holes then swiss cheese.
 

Dude, I get why youíre upset, but Iím thinking about lives that will be potentially lost to the enemy of this world.  If I donít at least plant the seed, there will be nothing to consider.  

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« Reply #74 on: December 30, 2012, 06:57:33 PM »

It's amusing you call Muslims praying five times a day as a 'man made ritual'.

When all christianity is founded upon is man made laws and rituals.

What do you call signum crucis? "The sign of the cross"? In the name of the father, Son and the Holy Spirit/Ghost.

Did Jesus do this? Nope. Did he preach this or teach this? Nope. You are the one that follows man made stuff.

Did God prohibit rabbis from marrying? Nope. Was Jesus called a rabbi? Yup all over the NT.

So why are priests forbidden from marrying? To be more 'pure'? Yet they rape children. It is AGAINST God's decree, AGAINST God's law, AGAINST human nature as God created us.

The apostles were all married, who lived and breathed with Jesus while he was alive. They all had pious wives. Did Paul marry? Nope.

Quite interesting yet again!

So please... speaking of 'man made stuff'... that's why I left Christianity as I wanted to follow God and the messengers not man made church non-sense which is riddled with misguidance.
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