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Author Topic: There is only one God, in three persons: Father, Son(Jesus) and Holy Spirit  (Read 11968 times)
Man of Steel
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« Reply #250 on: January 30, 2013, 03:37:30 PM »

I sense sarcasm  Cheesy  Do you believe Christianity is the only way to salvation?



I'll ask that you allow me ample time to complete my sarcasm before quoting me:

We're all uneducated, weak-willed, brainwashed morons that are scared of dying so we invent fantasies and flying spaghetti monsters to make us feel better about our inevitable cosmic fate.

That said, yes, 100%.
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« Reply #251 on: January 30, 2013, 03:42:31 PM »

I'll ask that you allow me ample time to complete my sarcasm before quoting me:

That said, yes, 100%.
That is why I have a problem with religion.  You don't think a muslim would feel the same about the Prophet? Someone who believes in Buddha?  I would be far more interested in a religion that practiced a way of life, devoid of being forced to pick sides.  My heaven would include all faiths.
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« Reply #252 on: January 31, 2013, 12:38:38 AM »

I did link my quote to your argument.  What are you talking about?

Okay bigbobs, you are familiar with the Biblical account in Genesis 18 and 19 about God visiting Abraham, eating with Abraham, walking with Abraham shortly before God destroyed Sodom an Gomorrah, right?  Are you familiar with this?

I am somewhat familiar with Genesis 18 and 19.  What's your point?  That's also where it's quoted that Lot's two daughters each got their father drunk and had sex with him on two separate nights while he did not even know what happened right?  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #253 on: January 31, 2013, 12:43:11 AM »

That is why I have a problem with religion.  You don't think a muslim would feel the same about the Prophet? Someone who believes in Buddha?  I would be far more interested in a religion that practiced a way of life, devoid of being forced to pick sides.  My heaven would include all faiths.

Some Muslims would disagree with me, but from my understanding we cannot predict who will go to heaven or hell, and while He has given us rules to live by, it is ultimately up to God to judge.  We do know that he is Just and Merciful.  For that reason I will never accept the Christan perspective like MOS stated that he is 100% certain that he will go to heaven and equally certain that all non-Christians will go to hell.
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« Reply #254 on: January 31, 2013, 03:05:38 AM »

I am somewhat familiar with Genesis 18 and 19.  What's your point?  That's also where it's quoted that Lot's two daughters each got their father drunk and had sex with him on two separate nights while he did not even know what happened right?  Roll Eyes

You are "somewhat" familiar with Genesis 18 and 19?  Somewhat familiar?  You have not yet read the entire Bible?  Yet you dare claim there is no Biblical support for the trinity and for the deity of Jesus Christ?    Roll Eyes

How do you interpret Genesis 18:1 through Genesis 19:24?  Take your time and read the entire account if you want to.  Who is this God person standing next to Abraham on earth while at the same time there is another God person in Heaven?

Genesis 18:1-5
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1 Adonai appeared to Avraham by the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to the tent during the heat of the day.
2 He raised his eyes and looked, and there in front of him stood three men. On seeing them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, prostrated himself on the ground,
3 and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please don’t leave your servant.
4 Please let me send for some water, so that you can wash your feet; then rest under the tree,
5 and I will bring a piece of bread. Now that you have come to your servant, refresh yourselves before going on.” “Very well,” they replied, “do what you have said.”

Genesis 18:22
The men turned away from there and went toward S’dom, but Avraham remained standing before Adonai.

Genesis 19:24
Then Adonai caused sulfur and fire to rain down upon S’dom and ‘Amora from Adonai out of the sky.
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« Reply #255 on: January 31, 2013, 09:49:59 AM »

You are "somewhat" familiar with Genesis 18 and 19?  Somewhat familiar?  You have not yet read the entire Bible?  Yet you dare claim there is no Biblical support for the trinity and for the deity of Jesus Christ?    Roll Eyes

How do you interpret Genesis 18:1 through Genesis 19:24?  Take your time and read the entire account if you want to.  Who is this God person standing next to Abraham on earth while at the same time there is another God person in Heaven?

Genesis 18:1-5
Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)

1 Adonai appeared to Avraham by the oaks of Mamre as he sat at the entrance to the tent during the heat of the day.
2 He raised his eyes and looked, and there in front of him stood three men. On seeing them, he ran from the tent door to meet them, prostrated himself on the ground,
3 and said, “My lord, if I have found favor in your sight, please don’t leave your servant.
4 Please let me send for some water, so that you can wash your feet; then rest under the tree,
5 and I will bring a piece of bread. Now that you have come to your servant, refresh yourselves before going on.” “Very well,” they replied, “do what you have said.”

Genesis 18:22
The men turned away from there and went toward S’dom, but Avraham remained standing before Adonai.

Genesis 19:24
Then Adonai caused sulfur and fire to rain down upon S’dom and ‘Amora from Adonai out of the sky.

I am familiar enough to know about the incestuous claim within those verses, which I noticed you didn't comment on.

God being in more than one place or committing actions in more than one place does not necessitate more than one "God person" as God is not limited to only being one place at one time like us.
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« Reply #256 on: January 31, 2013, 10:17:35 AM »

I am familiar enough to know about the incestuous claim within those verses, which I noticed you didn't comment on.

God being in more than one place or committing actions in more than one place does not necessitate more than one "God person" as God is not limited to only being one place at one time like us.

There is no "incestuous claim" within those verses.  The story you refer to about Lot and his daughters doesn't start until Genesis 19:30, after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.  I have no problems discussing that story if you want to start another thread, but in this thread it is irrelevant and you are only bringing it up to distract from the real discussion and avoid my questions.

bigbobs, you did not answer my question.  You and your Muslim brothers on the board keep questioning Jesus(God the Son) praying to himself(God the Father).  Yet in Genesis 19:24 there is a God person on earth raining down sulfur and fire from another God person up in Heaven.  

How do you interpret Genesis 19:24?
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« Reply #257 on: January 31, 2013, 10:37:48 AM »

There is no "incestuous claim" within those verses.  The story you refer to about Lot and his daughters doesn't start until Genesis 19:30, after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah.  I have no problems discussing that story if you want to start another thread, but in this thread it is irrelevant and you are only bringing it up to distract from the real discussion and avoid my questions.

bigbobs, you did not answer my question.  You and your Muslim brothers on the board keep questioning Jesus(God the Son) praying to himself(God the Father).  Yet in Genesis 19:24 there is a God person on earth raining down sulfur and fire from another God person up in Heaven.  

How do you interpret Genesis 19:24?

I do not interpet Genesis 19:24 as though there is one "God person" on earth and another "God person" in Heaven, like I said God can be in all places at all times, and can rain down sulfur from earth and fire from heaven without necessitating two "God persons."  I put that term in quotations because I find it so incomprehensible.
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« Reply #258 on: January 31, 2013, 10:53:01 AM »

I do not interpet Genesis 19:24 as though there is not one "God person" on earth and another "God person" in Heaven, like I said God can be in all places at all times, and can rain down sulfur from earth and fire from heaven without necessitating two "God persons."  I put that term in quotations because I find it so incomprehensible.

Thank you! 

Do you believe that God really did appear on earth in human form to Abraham, or do you see this as yet another Bible corruption?
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« Reply #259 on: January 31, 2013, 11:03:52 AM »

Thank you!  

Do you believe that God really did appear on earth in human form to Abraham, or do you see this as yet another Bible corruption?

No I don't believe Abraham saw God, and neither should you, if you believe in John 4:12 ""No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God remains in us, and his love has been perfected in us."
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« Reply #260 on: January 31, 2013, 11:14:22 AM »

Oooh bigbobs laying down the smackdown.

Wait, in before more contradicting verses posted to say indeed God was seen, etc...

 Grin

Meh... loco is indeed 'loco'. In his epic failure to prove the trinity, he has resorted to creating threads about 'mozzlems' and honor killings.

Lev 21:9  And the daughter of any priest, if she profane herself by playing the whore, she profaneth her father: she shall be burnt with fire.
 
"And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death. (Exodus 21:17)"
"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him. (Leviticus 20:9)"

Oh I know but they don't follow this part of the bible.

Honor killings are a part of the bible but not a part of the qur'an, islam, the sunnah, etc...

Ah what can one do but just sit there and sigh at all this Smiley
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« Reply #261 on: January 31, 2013, 11:21:59 AM »

No I don't believe Abraham saw God, and neither should you, if you believe in John 4:12 ""No one has seen God at any time. If we love one another, God remains in us, and his love has been perfected in us."

There are many verses in the Old Testament that say that no one has seen God, yet there are also many verses that talk about people having seen God, like Abraham and Moses for example.

If the people of the Old Testament were seeing God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I believe that they were seeing the Word before He became flesh. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Though Jesus is not God the Father, Jesus is God the Son.  Seeing Jesus is the closest thing to seeing God the Father, because Jesus and the Father are one God.

John 10:30-33
I and the Father are one.
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« Reply #262 on: January 31, 2013, 11:26:32 AM »

hahhaha he did post contradicting verses again. At least if we are to interpret them the way he does.

It's amazing how the bible can contradict itself in the same 'book'/'chapter' and often times the same paragraph lol. Oh well at least we got loco to entertain us with it all. He is trying to prove to us that we should worship a human being even if it makes absolutely no sense, and we are just not buying into his non-sense.
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« Reply #263 on: January 31, 2013, 11:32:27 AM »

There are many verses in the Old Testament that say that no one has seen God, yet there are also many verses that talk about people having seen God, like Abraham and Moses for example.

If the people of the Old Testament were seeing God, and Jesus said that no one has ever seen the Father (John 6:46), then they were seeing God, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I believe that they were seeing the Word before He became flesh. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Though Jesus is not God the Father, Jesus is God the Son.  Seeing Jesus is the closest thing to seeing God the Father, because Jesus and the Father are one God.

John 10:30-33
I and the Father are one.

No, if the people of the Old Testament are said to have seen God, and Jesus said no one has ever seen God, then there are two implications:

a)  The old Testament contradicts Jesus' teachings (if you believe Jesus taught that he is God), and
 
b)  Jesus himself is not God because why would God say "no one has seen God" to a group
of people if He was indeed standing before them and visible to them.

Instead of admitting the obvious contradiction in a) and the dismissal of Jesus' divinity in b), you come up with ideas that dont make sense such as there being more than one "God person" yet still one God or that people in the Old Testament were seeing Jesus (Jews would not agree with this either), and that Jesus and the Fater are both God but one bipolar entity.  

Like I've said many times before, ignoring these evidences of Jesus not being God is  simply forcing an implausible interpretation just to cling to what you want to believe.  You can believe your obscure explanations, but you won't be fooling me or any other unbiased reader here.
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« Reply #264 on: January 31, 2013, 11:34:01 AM »

hahhaha he did post contradicting verses again. At least if we are to interpret them the way he does.

It's amazing how the bible can contradict itself in the same 'book'/'chapter' and often times the same paragraph lol. Oh well at least we got loco to entertain us with it all. He is trying to prove to us that we should worship a human being even if it makes absolutely no sense, and we are just not buying into his non-sense.

LOL, and because he cannot plausibly support his beliefs from his own book he gets irritated and resorts to posting random acts of violence committed by Muslims which don't prove anything, knowing full well that such acts are committed by people of his faith as well.
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« Reply #265 on: January 31, 2013, 11:41:42 AM »

No, if the people of the Old Testament are said to have seen God, and Jesus said no one has ever seen God, then there are two implications:

a)  The old Testament contradicts Jesus' teachings (if you believe Jesus taught that he is God), and
 
b)  Jesus himself is not God because why would God say "no one has seen God" to a group
of people if He was indeed standing before them and visible to them.

Instead of admitting the obvious contradiction in a) and the dismissal of Jesus' divinity in b), you come up with ideas that dont make sense such as there being more than one "God person" yet still one God or that people in the Old Testament were seeing Jesus (Jews would not agree with this either), and that Jesus and the Fater are both God but one bipolar entity.  

Like I've said many times before, ignoring these evidences of Jesus not being God is  simply forcing an implausible interpretation just to cling to what you want to believe.  You can believe your obscure explanations, but you won't be fooling me or any other unbiased reader here.

Why should there be only two implications?  I could turn the tables on you and say exactly the same thing about your interpretation.

They were seeing God, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I believe that they were seeing the Word before He became flesh. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

See?  That another implication.
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« Reply #266 on: January 31, 2013, 11:42:59 AM »

Why should there be only two implications?  I could turn the tables on you and say exactly the same thing about your interpretation.

They were seeing God, but not the Father. It was someone else in the Godhead. I believe that they were seeing the Word before He became flesh. In other words, they were seeing Jesus.

See?  That another implication.

lol so everything has numerous implications and interpretaitons of equal plausibility therefore we don't know what to believe.  Great defence  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #267 on: January 31, 2013, 11:47:38 AM »

lol so everything has numerous implications and interpretaitons of equal plausibility therefore we don't know what to believe.  Great defence  Roll Eyes

No, I believe there is only one implication:

"Anyone who has seen me[Jesus] has seen the Father."  John 14:9

But you believe otherwise. 
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« Reply #268 on: January 31, 2013, 11:50:26 AM »

No, I believe there is only one implication:

"Anyone who has seen me[Jesus] has seen the Father."  John 14:9

But you believe otherwise. 

Based on weak arguments you have made you can't blame me for belieiving otherwise
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« Reply #269 on: January 31, 2013, 11:59:03 AM »

Based on weak arguments you have made you can't blame me for belieiving otherwise

As stated before, I am not here to try to convert you.  I believe in freedom of religion.

If you were wondering why so many Christians believe in one God in three persons, and why so many Christians believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, I have given you and our readers some of the Bible verses that we see as Biblical basis for these.
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« Reply #270 on: January 31, 2013, 01:19:22 PM »

As stated before, I am not here to try to convert you.  I believe in freedom of religion.

If you were wondering why so many Christians believe in one God in three persons, and why so many Christians believe in the deity of Jesus Christ, I have given you and our readers some of the Bible verses that we see as Biblical basis for these.

Yup and after reading the verses you gave me I still wonder why so many Christians believe in the Trinity or divinity of Jesus.
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« Reply #271 on: January 31, 2013, 06:52:39 PM »

Yup and after reading the verses you gave me I still wonder why so many Christians believe in the Trinity or divinity of Jesus.

Okay.  Moving on.
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« Reply #272 on: January 31, 2013, 06:55:19 PM »

John 8:24
New International Version (NIV)

24 I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.


Yochanan 8:24
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

24 I said, therefore, to you that you will go to your mavet in your averos (sins), for if you do not have emunah (faith) that Ani Hu [YESHAYAH 41:4; SHEMOT 3:14-16], you will die in your chatta’im.

Shemot 3:14-16
Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)

14 And Elohim said unto Moshe, Eh-heh-yeh ashair Ehheh- yeh (I AM WHO I AM); and He said, Thus shalt thou say unto the Bnei Yisroel, EHHEH-YEH (I AM) hath sent me unto you.

15 And Elohim said moreover unto Moshe, Thus shalt thou say unto Bnei Yisroel: Hashem, Elohei Avoteichem, Elohei Avraham, Elohei Yitzchak, and Elohei Ya’akov, hath sent me unto you: this is Shemi l’olam, and this is My remembrance unto all generations.

16 Go, and gather the Ziknei Yisroel together, and say unto them, Hashem Elohei Avoteichem, Elohei Avraham, Yitzchak, and Ya’akov, appeared unto me, saying, I have surely visited you, and seen that which is done to you in Mitzrayim;

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