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Author Topic: Interesting William Blake Quote  (Read 1064 times)
bigbobs
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Islam, Nasser and Corvettes.


« on: January 30, 2013, 09:35:48 AM »

"Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read black where I read white."

This sums up why we are constantly debating such fundamentals as whether Jesus is God or Prophet, whether the Bible teaches the Trinity or not, etc.
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Thick Nick
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« Reply #1 on: January 30, 2013, 11:30:35 AM »

Lol @ you for having my post removed you sissy la la.
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bigbobs
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Islam, Nasser and Corvettes.


« Reply #2 on: January 30, 2013, 01:50:24 PM »

Lol @ you for having my post removed you sissy la la.

Lol @ you for being mistaken you sissy la la.
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Thick Nick
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2013, 07:01:50 AM »

Lol @ you for being mistaken you sissy la la.

Doubtful. You clowns are perma-butthurt. Don't worry though, no matter how many you have removed, I'll post 2 more to expose the death cult.
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Man of Steel
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« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2013, 07:36:39 AM »

"Both read the Bible day and night, but thou read black where I read white."

This sums up why we are constantly debating such fundamentals as whether Jesus is God or Prophet, whether the Bible teaches the Trinity or not, etc.

I think there's some definite truth in this, but I also think we're conditioned to feel one way or the other even prior to the reading.  

Still, as a Christian, I knew virtually nothing about Islam other than the names Allah and Muhammad.....flat out ignorance.  Most Christians I know are still in the that category.  Muslims, on the other hand, seem to be trained up bootcamp style in their Islamic faith as well as their knowledge of the bible, but the bible knowledge is about corruption of scripture, denial of the trinity, the pagan Paul, etc.....   The Muslim agenda is in place way before cracking "the good book".  Many Christians are just flat out ignorant about Islam, the Quran, Allah, Muhammad and the Hadith; further still, many are ignorant about the bible they profess to believe in LOL....double whammy....I admit it, it's pathetic!   And I used to be part of the pathetic, nominal "Christian" masses.

Often times when Christians speak to Muslims many get destroyed in conversation (ex: the Swaggart v Deedat debate....Swaggart was annihilated LOL).  The Muslim comes with an arsenal of information (they've been trained up since day one of life) while the Christian shows up with a half-full watergun of information and John 3:16 in their backpocket LOL.  Even then, the Christian needs to be prepared to speak to the word "begotten" if they quote that translation of the verse LOL!!  

My point is, I don't believe that the Muslim reads the bible and doesn't see the divinity of Jesus reflected in scripture...especially when it's clearly pointed out to them....I don't buy it LOL.  Muslims are educated, often speak multiple languages, can read and spell and comprehend and contribute to every discipline on planet earth....the notion of "we don't see Jesus as the son of God in your book, but we believe prophet Jesus (pbuh) is the beloved messiah in Islam" I think is nonsense....it's pre-conditioning before crackin open the bible.  The Muslim has already been told "that believing as such will send you to the 8th circle of hell" by Allah.

The Christian doesn't believe the Quran because most Christians are completely ignorant and can't even spell Quran or Islam...most Christians can't even defend the Trinity they claim to believe in; in fact, the Muslim probably knows 10x times more biblical scripture than the average Christian....it's sad.
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« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2013, 07:45:51 AM »

Doubtful. You clowns are perma-butthurt. Don't worry though, no matter how many you have removed, I'll post 2 more to expose the death cult.

I took your post down.  I wasn't asked to either.   

If you want to discuss religion you're more than welcome to engage....members here will welcome the discussion whether you believe in a particular faith or not.  Yeah sometimes it's gets heated and we have to tone it down (myself included), but if you wanna come here and just insult people or call Muslims "towelheads" or whatever else....sorry, you'll be deleted.   I don't agree with the foundations of Islam at all, but I'm not gonna trash talk the Muslims that contribute to this board.
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2013, 08:02:36 AM »

I took your post down.  I wasn't asked to either.   

If you want to discuss religion you're more than welcome to engage....members here will welcome the discussion whether you believe in a particular faith or not.  Yeah sometimes it's gets heated and we have to tone it down (myself included), but if you wanna come here and just insult people or call Muslims "towelheads" or whatever else....sorry, you'll be deleted.   I don't agree with the foundations of Islam at all, but I'm not gonna trash talk the Muslims that contribute to this board.
Please point out where I called anyone a rag head. In " marks I said death cult. Bogus comparison.
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$
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2013, 08:29:42 AM »

Please point out where I called anyone a rag head. In " marks I said death cult. Bogus comparison.

You know exactly what I'm saying.
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Thick Nick
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2013, 09:47:03 AM »

You know exactly what I'm saying.

I really don't, I might call someone a fag here and there, but during these discussions I might call someone evil, but not raghead. Least not that I can recall... maybe I did. But still shouldn't be comparing calling something evil to calling them a name.
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bigbobs
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Islam, Nasser and Corvettes.


« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2013, 10:01:22 AM »

I think there's some definite truth in this, but I also think we're conditioned to feel one way or the other even prior to the reading.  

Still, as a Christian, I knew virtually nothing about Islam other than the names Allah and Muhammad.....flat out ignorance.  Most Christians I know are still in the that category.  Muslims, on the other hand, seem to be trained up bootcamp style in their Islamic faith as well as their knowledge of the bible, but the bible knowledge is about corruption of scripture, denial of the trinity, the pagan Paul, etc.....   The Muslim agenda is in place way before cracking "the good book".  Many Christians are just flat out ignorant about Islam, the Quran, Allah, Muhammad and the Hadith; further still, many are ignorant about the bible they profess to believe in LOL....double whammy....I admit it, it's pathetic!   And I used to be part of the pathetic, nominal "Christian" masses.

Often times when Christians speak to Muslims many get destroyed in conversation (ex: the Swaggart v Deedat debate....Swaggart was annihilated LOL).  The Muslim comes with an arsenal of information (they've been trained up since day one of life) while the Christian shows up with a half-full watergun of information and John 3:16 in their backpocket LOL.  Even then, the Christian needs to be prepared to speak to the word "begotten" if they quote that translation of the verse LOL!!  

My point is, I don't believe that the Muslim reads the bible and doesn't see the divinity of Jesus reflected in scripture...especially when it's clearly pointed out to them....I don't buy it LOL.  Muslims are educated, often speak multiple languages, can read and spell and comprehend and contribute to every discipline on planet earth....the notion of "we don't see Jesus as the son of God in your book, but we believe prophet Jesus (pbuh) is the beloved messiah in Islam" I think is nonsense....it's pre-conditioning before crackin open the bible.  The Muslim has already been told "that believing as such will send you to the 8th circle of hell" by Allah.

The Christian doesn't believe the Quran because most Christians are completely ignorant and can't even spell Quran or Islam...most Christians can't even defend the Trinity they claim to believe in; in fact, the Muslim probably knows 10x times more biblical scripture than the average Christian....it's sad.

It goes both ways - while Muslims read the Bible under the impression that Jesus was a prophet and look for whether there are indeed any hard evidences to the contrary, Christians who read the Bible are already under the impression that Jesus is God or the literal son of God, so they're unlikely to question the clear evidence of it. 

Personally I was never trained or taught from any age how to debate with Christians, and of the many Muslims I know very few have heard of most of the arguments used by Muslims such as Deedat in these debates.  Even I hardly knew anything about the Bible until 4-5 months ago (not that I'm an expert now, still have a lot to learn), but I only started learning recently.  A quick check of my post history will show this too, despite being on here for years I never started posting in this forum until recently.  In what I've read myself, and from the repsonses I've gotten from Christian posters here to the fundamental questions, I don't believe the Bible makes a case for Jesus' divinity. 

If there was clear support for Jesus' divinity in the Bible, the debate would simply be which book is more accurate between the Quran and the Bible.  However, since there is not clear support, the debate is centered on whether the accounts of Jesus in the Bible are even any different than in the Quran - IMO both books actually teach the same of Jesus being a man and prophet.  This also makes sense since the Quran is simply a continuity of revelation from God.
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« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2013, 12:32:12 PM »

It goes both ways - while Muslims read the Bible under the impression that Jesus was a prophet and look for whether there are indeed any hard evidences to the contrary, Christians who read the Bible are already under the impression that Jesus is God or the literal son of God, so they're unlikely to question the clear evidence of it.  

Personally I was never trained or taught from any age how to debate with Christians, and of the many Muslims I know very few have heard of most of the arguments used by Muslims such as Deedat in these debates.  Even I hardly knew anything about the Bible until 4-5 months ago (not that I'm an expert now, still have a lot to learn), but I only started learning recently.  A quick check of my post history will show this too, despite being on here for years I never started posting in this forum until recently.  In what I've read myself, and from the repsonses I've gotten from Christian posters here to the fundamental questions, I don't believe the Bible makes a case for Jesus' divinity.  

If there was clear support for Jesus' divinity in the Bible, the debate would simply be which book is more accurate between the Quran and the Bible.  However, since there is not clear support, the debate is centered on whether the accounts of Jesus in the Bible are even any different than in the Quran - IMO both books actually teach the same of Jesus being a man and prophet.  This also makes sense since the Quran is simply a continuity of revelation from God.

I totally get you and I agree with you.  It absolutely can go both ways at times!!  Hey ahmed wasn't raised in a Muslim household...he's a Catholic convert to Islam.  

Most Christians don't even crack their bibles, but boy do they "luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv Jesus!!"  There are so many Christian books on various theological subjects with the subtitle "Learn Why You Believe!!"  LOL, makes me laugh now.  I was raised in a Christian household, attended a Baptist church, the whole nine yards....vacation bible school, church retreats, Dad was a deacon, particpated in the music department, entire family participated in Christmas productions, was baptized, etc....and I "luuuuuuuuuuuuved Jesus".  Called him God and sang "praise him on high!!" GOOOOOO JESUS!!!  Yet, I never cracked the bible and didn't truly understand a thing about what I claimed to believe LOL!!  I lived for myself, did not represent Christ, smoke, drank, got into trouble, all the normal nonsense.  

Sad, right?  A Christian cliche at its finest.  

What changed?  I came to a crossroads in my life, a dark time....DARK time.  I literally had a foot in the grave, but I surrendered to God....honestly surrendered to his will....for the first time in my life and the presence of the Holy Spirit both filled the room I was in and indwells me to this day!  My eyes were literally opened for the first time!  After that I have studied my bible for the first time (reading it cover to cover and going a lot of it again).  I've read theological book after theological book.  Prayed, loved the Lord, filled my life with his will and purpose and continue to serve him daily. Still, the change was the surrender....true acceptance by faith that Jesus Christ is my risen God, Lord and Savior....he is the son of God.  Then the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that came thereafter has changed me through and through.  People scoff at the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, "BAAAAH!! What does that even mean?  Indwelling!!  BAAAAAH!!  Sounds like a cult....religious people are ridiculous and narrow minded!"  Christians are narrow-minded because Christ is the narrow gate...the only way to salvation and no amount of our own personal works will pay our sin debt.  Jesus Christ is the new covenant, he's prophecy fulfilled, risen God, Lord, Savior, the Messiah, rabbi, prophet, teacher, son, brother, friend, man, alpha, omega, the creator, second person of the Trinity, our redeemer, son of God, king of kings, lord of lords, Jehovah, the seed of Abraham, the prince of peace, the great I AM!!  

The Holy Spirit guides me now and convicts me daily.  I feel his presence almost daily and I love my Lord for that very precious opportunity.  What's amazing about the bible is that it literally is the living word of God.  As a true believer in Christ the power of his word is awesome!  It's the Holy Spirit that makes the difference....things leap of the pages LOL!  So many non-Christians criticize saying, "y'all talk about the Trinity, but you only mention the Father and the Son....never the Spirit!!"  LOL, well, I've taken up the mantle for the Holy Spirit because he's the absolute third person of the Trinity and coeternal, coequal partner of the Father and Son that validates exactly who Jesus Christ said he is and demonstrates (tangibly) the reality of God in our lives.  Folks want it to work in the reverse, they want the proof upfront and then they'll consider following.....eh eh.....you seek the Lord faithfully (yep, I said it.....faith), honestly, earnestly and he'll absolutely respond in kind and then some!  I have no reason to make this up, but all I can say is it's true....you're wanted, you're precious, you're the love of his heart and ole rugged cross was for you!!

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« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2013, 01:46:37 PM »

So basically you lived a typical christian life then hit rock bottom. And you thought about your life and thought about God, you needed to change. You did. God showed you mercy and you accept that mercy. But in return instead of worshipping God you continue to be upon what you wer eraised and that is worshipping and believing in the trinity.

I went to church, I got baptized (later by my own choice not at birth), had my communion, attended sunday mass, sunday school, went to catholic elementary and secondary. I also participated in ushering, singing, doing kids programs (helping other kids), was mentored, was mentoring, etc... etc... Loved religion classes. Read the bible like you did. Believed strongly in God despite all around me (the typical christians who do anything and think their life is great). I abstained from the 'regular' activities of drinking, partying, etc... that my fellow classmates were into. Besides we are all 'saved'? Right?

I really tried hard to be a better christian but most importantly I TRULY believed in God and God alone above all. However I could NOT accept LIES and MAN MADE things, it did not turn me away from God, but I could not accept lies!

You saw the light, so to speak, you felt God's mercy, but you were tricked into accepting man made things still instead of continuing to seek out, search and study. Instead you surrounded yourself probably with what you were already raised with and dwelled in books that were tailored with the same mindset.

I kept going further, that is why I even tried getting my hands across apocrypha, studying christian history, judaism, other religions, etc...

I never stoped believing in God as some people who are confused by the man made stuff instead it strengthened my conviction but I kept looking everywhere and everywhere saw man made things until I came upon islam and yes all the questions I had about the bible that were confusing were in fact answered by the qur'an.

Your heart has to be soft and willing to open your eyes and heart to this truth. Otherwise you will continue for the rest of your life just doing what you were upon and that is worshipping the trinity which you cannot prove beyond your faith and linguistics. History is against you, scripture is against you as we went back and forth. You're stubborn in that fact.

You have faith, strong faith, which is admirable, you changed your life, you thought about the bad you were doing even if you are thought hey you're saved like most christians, but why? Because INSIDE YOU you KNOW that there is a difference. Yet still you end up in the same path of trinitarianism.

The very church fathers doubted their beliefs in the trinity.

The guy who put this illustration together doubted himself at the end of his life:


As such you have become far more emotional than rational because you cannot rationally or intellectually accept these things. Unless you're just being stubborn. Hence why Christianity often is portrayed with emotion and blind faith.

I could not accept that. No matter what priests, teachers, pastors, whoever told me about the trinity, all their magical examples it all ultimately resorted to 'have faith', but when you are confronted with the TRUTH in the matter how can you accept a lie and say have faith? I have faith in truth not lies.
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« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2013, 02:17:18 PM »

So basically you lived a typical christian life then hit rock bottom. And you thought about your life and thought about God, you needed to change. You did. God showed you mercy and you accept that mercy. But in return instead of worshipping God you continue to be upon what you wer eraised and that is worshipping and believing in the trinity.

I went to church, I got baptized (later by my own choice not at birth), had my communion, attended sunday mass, sunday school, went to catholic elementary and secondary. I also participated in ushering, singing, doing kids programs (helping other kids), was mentored, was mentoring, etc... etc... Loved religion classes. Read the bible like you did. Believed strongly in God despite all around me (the typical christians who do anything and think their life is great). I abstained from the 'regular' activities of drinking, partying, etc... that my fellow classmates were into. Besides we are all 'saved'? Right?

I really tried hard to be a better christian but most importantly I TRULY believed in God and God alone above all. However I could NOT accept LIES and MAN MADE things, it did not turn me away from God, but I could not accept lies!

You saw the light, so to speak, you felt God's mercy, but you were tricked into accepting man made things still instead of continuing to seek out, search and study. Instead you surrounded yourself probably with what you were already raised with and dwelled in books that were tailored with the same mindset.

I kept going further, that is why I even tried getting my hands across apocrypha, studying christian history, judaism, other religions, etc...

I never stoped believing in God as some people who are confused by the man made stuff instead it strengthened my conviction but I kept looking everywhere and everywhere saw man made things until I came upon islam and yes all the questions I had about the bible that were confusing were in fact answered by the qur'an.

Your heart has to be soft and willing to open your eyes and heart to this truth. Otherwise you will continue for the rest of your life just doing what you were upon and that is worshipping the trinity which you cannot prove beyond your faith and linguistics. History is against you, scripture is against you as we went back and forth. You're stubborn in that fact.

You have faith, strong faith, which is admirable, you changed your life, you thought about the bad you were doing even if you are thought hey you're saved like most christians, but why? Because INSIDE YOU you KNOW that there is a difference. Yet still you end up in the same path of trinitarianism.

The very church fathers doubted their beliefs in the trinity.

The guy who put this illustration together doubted himself at the end of his life:


As such you have become far more emotional than rational because you cannot rationally or intellectually accept these things. Unless you're just being stubborn. Hence why Christianity often is portrayed with emotion and blind faith.

I could not accept that. No matter what priests, teachers, pastors, whoever told me about the trinity, all their magical examples it all ultimately resorted to 'have faith', but when you are confronted with the TRUTH in the matter how can you accept a lie and say have faith? I have faith in truth not lies.
bigbobs can reply for himself ahmed.  

All you've done is remove the Holy Spirit from my post; unfortunately, it does absolutely nothing to alter the reality of the situation.

Believe me, I understand why that's so important for you to do...so be it.

To that I simply say...yep.

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