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Author Topic: Ron Paul just jumped the shark.  (Read 1226 times)
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« Reply #50 on: February 04, 2013, 08:42:54 PM »

No - but Kyle was motivated by trying to help these fellow soldiers.   He himself saved hundreds if not thousands of fellow soldiers. 

Ron Paul can eat a dick over this 

I'm all for helping PTSD soldiers - I think our govt does a horrible thing by putting all these young people thru such hell, then not providing adequate counseling or medical coverage when they return.
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« Reply #51 on: February 04, 2013, 08:44:00 PM »

Does anyone else here believe it might be therapeutic or healthy to take a person suffering from PTSD from war experiences to a gun range?
When I was at SOI, we had a combat instructor that had 3 purple hearts, he had been hit by an IED on 3 separate occasions. He was missing a huge chunk out of one of his biceps and had scars up and down his arms.

When we would be in the barracks and you could hear .50 rounds were going off (or the one time we felt a mortar detonate somewhere it wasn't supposed to), his lower eyelids would climb halfway up his eyeball and his hands would start to twitch.

It was mildly disturbing.
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« Reply #52 on: February 04, 2013, 08:46:50 PM »

I'm all for helping PTSD soldiers - I think our govt does a horrible thing by putting all these young people thru such hell, then not providing adequate counseling or medical coverage when they return.


Kyle was contacted by the mother of this guy and he tried to help him put as only he knew.   In retrospect he was wrong but he was trting to help , out of te goodness, not malice 


For RP to be so calous - sorry - im not amused
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« Reply #53 on: February 04, 2013, 08:47:30 PM »

When I was at SOI, we had a combat instructor that had 3 purple hearts, he had been hit by an IED on 3 separate occasions. He was missing a huge chunk out of one of his biceps and had scars up and down his arms.

When we would be in the barracks and you could hear .50 rounds were going off (or the one time we felt a mortar detonate somewhere it wasn't supposed to), his lower eyelids would climb halfway up his eyeball and his hands would start to twitch.

It was mildly disturbing.

I think the result of this shooting will be the military doing more to educate OTHERS how to handle people with PTSD.  
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« Reply #54 on: February 04, 2013, 08:49:12 PM »

I think the result of this shooting will be the military doing more to educate OTHERS how to handle people with PTSD.  

RP is looking like absolute shit in this 
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« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2013, 08:49:44 PM »

Kyle was contacted by the mother of this guy and he tried to help him put as only he knew.   In retrospect he was wrong but he was trting to help , out of te goodness, not malice  
For RP to be so calous - sorry - im not amused

I'm very sure Kyle was trying to help - he was an honorable man, for sure.

I think the problem is education.  Kyle didn't know that gunfire could trigger violence in a person whose PTSD was formed as a result from gunfire.  Same way a kid could see his mom decapitated on a roller coaster - you'd never expect to take him on a roller coaster to blow off steam and 'face down' his fear.  You'd wanna take the guy to get ice cream or fishing or just talk... but to force a person to face their fear - with a loaded gun in their hand?  I blame the military for not teaching Kyle and others just how PTSD events are triggered.  At the very least, you don't arm a guy before sending him to face his fear!
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« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2013, 08:51:11 PM »

RP was CORRECT that "treating someone with PTSD at a shooting range is a bad idea".   He's correct.

He just looks liek shit for wording it with "live by the sword".   He shouldn't say shit like that.

But he's correct that it's not a good idea to hand a loaded gun to a person with PTSD and surround them with gunfire. 
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« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2013, 08:55:49 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiVDtNjORbY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IiVDtNjORbY</a>

RP is done  - he cemented is legacy now for the time being
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« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2013, 08:57:48 PM »

I'm very sure Kyle was trying to help - he was an honorable man, for sure.

I think the problem is education.  Kyle didn't know that gunfire could trigger violence in a person whose PTSD was formed as a result from gunfire.  Same way a kid could see his mom decapitated on a roller coaster - you'd never expect to take him on a roller coaster to blow off steam and 'face down' his fear.  You'd wanna take the guy to get ice cream or fishing or just talk... but to force a person to face their fear - with a loaded gun in their hand?  I blame the military for not teaching Kyle and others just how PTSD events are triggered.  At the very least, you don't arm a guy before sending him to face his fear!

LOL. I love how you assert opinions as fact. It's quite endearing watching you act as an authority on everything under the sun. He didn't know, eh? Can you prove that?   Roll Eyes

It's quite natural to overcome a fear of something by doing it.

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« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2013, 09:03:50 PM »

I'm very sure Kyle was trying to help - he was an honorable man, for sure.

I think the problem is education.  Kyle didn't know that gunfire could trigger violence in a person whose PTSD was formed as a result from gunfire.  Same way a kid could see his mom decapitated on a roller coaster - you'd never expect to take him on a roller coaster to blow off steam and 'face down' his fear.  You'd wanna take the guy to get ice cream or fishing or just talk... but to force a person to face their fear - with a loaded gun in their hand?  I blame the military for not teaching Kyle and others just how PTSD events are triggered.  At the very least, you don't arm a guy before sending him to face his fear!
Uh... so you're implying that a guy that spent his life in a combat zone would have no idea what would bother a man with PTSD caused by combat?

If I were to venture a guess, I'd say that someone that has experienced all the same things would be BETTER qualified to help someone than a person that has no frame of reference of what being in combat is like.
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« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2013, 09:05:53 PM »

http://www.amazon.com/American-Sniper-Autobiography-Military-History/dp/0062238868/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1360036976&sr=8-2&keywords=navy+seal+sniper


Great book.   

RIP Chris Kyle!!!!
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« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2013, 09:09:57 PM »

he didnt claim to know it was by karma, he just pointed out that the situation fit perfectly with the saying "live by the sword, die by the sword"   Smiley and it does..  Smiley

Ironically, those were my first thoughts as well.  Lips sealed

Dude made his living by murdering people with guns, and here someone decides to murder him with a gun?

Not saying he deserved it, ...but it is a textbook classic definition of the saying

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« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2013, 09:11:15 PM »

LOL. I love how you assert opinions as fact. It's quite endearing watching you act as an authority on everything under the sun. He didn't know, eh? Can you prove that?   Roll Eyes

It's quite natural to overcome a fear of something by doing it.

But we're not talking about riding a roller coaster or riding a bike.

We're talking about handing a loaded weapon to a person with PTSD - delusion, violence etc.

Then we place this person in a loud place with gunfire and strangers.  

Ron Paul used shitty language in sentence #1.  But he was right in sentence #2 that it's not a good idea to take a person with war PTSD to a gun range and giving them a loaded weapon.
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« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2013, 09:12:13 PM »

Ironically, those were my first thoughts as well.  Lips sealed

Dude made his living by murdering people with guns, and here someone decides to murder him with a gun?

Not saying he deserved it, ...but it is a textbook classic definition of the saying



Time and place - RP gained no friends and only enemies w his bulllsit 
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« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2013, 10:57:46 PM »

It's still a shitty thing to say.   
not really.
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« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2013, 10:58:44 PM »

Time and place - RP gained no friends and only enemies w his bulllsit 
gained a friend in me  Smiley   (and anyone else who values pacifism)
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« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2013, 11:05:48 PM »

I've always respected and valued Ron Paul's opinions and insights, but on this I'd have to disagree.  His statement may hold some truth and merit to it, but it came as very insensitive and entirely unnecessary.

Congressman Paul is advancing in age as well, so there is always that.
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« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2013, 07:29:04 AM »

Ironically, those were my first thoughts as well.  Lips sealed

Dude made his living by murdering people with guns, and here someone decides to murder him with a gun?

Not saying he deserved it, ...but it is a textbook classic definition of the saying



It isn't. It's a false equivalency.  He was not engaged in the same activity which resulted in his death. He served in combat as a soldier with a cause.  He was murdered without cause.  Two completely different things. 
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« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2013, 10:59:00 AM »

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/05/beck-delivers-excoriating-rebuke-of-ron-paul-over-ugly-and-offensive-tweet-about-chris-kyles-death


RP really is getting hammered over this from all over bu tthe gun control nazis
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« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2013, 11:36:05 AM »

As a veteran, I certainly recognize that this weekend’s violence and killing of Chris Kyle were a tragic and sad event. My condolences and prayers go out to Mr. Kyle’s family. Unconstitutional and unnecessary wars have endless unintended consequences. A policy of non-violence, as Christ preached, would have prevented this and similar tragedies. -REP

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2013/02/ron-paul-clarifies-by-the-sword-tweet-on-snipers-death/
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« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2013, 11:57:34 AM »

333 was right about how paul engaged in political malpractice in the primary - he is his own worst enemy 

Yup if only he had sold out like the rest he could get the nomination Roll Eyes
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« Reply #71 on: February 05, 2013, 11:59:31 AM »

I'm all for helping PTSD soldiers - I think our govt does a horrible thing by putting all these young people thru such hell, then not providing adequate counseling or medical coverage when they return.


Of course not that would mean more spending. No republican would go for that.

And most soldiers is middle or lower class so they dont give a shit.
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« Reply #72 on: February 05, 2013, 12:02:13 PM »

Who the hell tweets anyway Huh

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« Reply #73 on: February 05, 2013, 12:10:17 PM »

Ron Paul Quotes Jesus, Conservatives Outraged

 Posted by Ryan W. McMaken on February 4, 2013 11:45 PM


Remember that time Ron Paul used the Golden Rule to explain his foreign policy? Conservatives booed him for that. So who can be surprised that conservatives, including Rand Paul, have been falling all over themselves to condemn Ron Paul for quoting Jesus -in correct context, by the way - to note that the violence wrought by over a decade of nonstop war in America leads to tragedy on the home front?

Every neocon pundit and middle-American red-blooded conservative took a few minutes out from running around shrieking "boo-yah" and polishing his dually F-250 to be outraged that someone dared suggest that a government employee wasn't a holy relic.

The Daily Caller was the first to the show, posting Paul's twitter post without comment and allowing the comment box to quickly fill with outraged Republicans who were dismayed that anyone would not endorse every action of every single taxpayer-funded soldier who ever drew a bead on some dirt-poor 12-year-old child-soldier 10,000 miles away. Others soon piled on.

The most transparent were the conservatives who claimed to be former supporters of Paul who must now go support some more "patriotic" politician: One who doesn't actually question anything the military does.



One member at RonPaulForums.com said "'Live by the sword, die by the sword' is what the dumbest, stupidest, most delusional people around here would say. There's no way that Ron actually said this. Ugh. How said [sic] and pathetic."
 
That seems to be the general reaction one gets from conservatives about the Golden Rule also.

This is what it comes down to for most conservatives, of course. All that stuff about laissez faire and freedom and free markets has never been more than an act and an affectation which goes right out the window if someone ever criticizes the US Government in a truly trenchant or penetrating manner.

Most of these sunshine patriots who now whine that Ron Paul has lost their support, wouldn't ever have supported Ron Paul in the first place if Obama weren't in office. Had Ron Paul run against a GOP incumbent, most of these timid and prevaricating "opponents" of big government would have condemned Paul for questioning the glorious deeds of "our" Commander-in-Chief. Among conservatives, Ron Paul has only ever had minority support, for in the end, conservatives love government, as exhibited by their latest outrage. They just love it in a slightly different way from the left liberals.

As I've noted before, the Tea Party movement, and most conservatives who pretend to be for small government, only act when there's a Democrat in office. During eight years of Bush shredding the constitution, spending money like there was no tomorrow, and inflating the money supply with his pals at the central bank, no conservative would walk ten feet to protest the federal government. But about five minutes after Obama was sworn in, the Tea Party protests swelled into a huge disingenuous show that will evaporate five minutes after any Republican is sworn into office, assuming the GOP can actually win a national election with one of the out-of-touch never-had-a-real-job rich boys they insist on nominating.

In the end of course, Ron Paul has never been about rallying people to himself. He has been about the message, and the message is about freedom. It is a logical impossibility to be simultaneously pro-freedom and pro-military. Patrick Henry, who called government soldiers "engines of despotism" knew this. Thomas Jefferson knew this. Every true friend of liberty from William Graham Sumner to Murray Rothbard knew this. And Ron Paul knows it. Some of his supporters, still stuck in the mindset of a form of Geezer Conservatism in which "freedom-lovers" bow and scrape before the US Government, denied that Ron Paul could have even agreed with the Twitter post. No such luck for them. The tradition of laissez faire is a tradition against standing armies, and wars, and deference to military "heroics." Conservatives who are troubled by this should probably be honest with themselves and find a candidate more suitable to their views. I hear Newt Gingrich is still taking donations.
 
http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/archives/131829.html
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« Reply #74 on: February 05, 2013, 12:24:48 PM »

not taking sides with the actual argument itself..

but i find it disturbing that you dont understand what live by the sword die by the sword means.

and the fact that you interject other murder victims means you miss the point..

basically, he is saying if your job is to kill people.. you in the killing arena, therefore the likelyhood of you getting is increased by virtue if the arena you are in...

Please tell me you understand that 3333... it has nothing to do with "oh well karma and other people are murdered..."...no... its simply.. if you work with lions that bite... youre more likley to get bitten by a lion... Makes perfect sense
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