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Author Topic: The Bible backs up gun ownership  (Read 3282 times)
Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2013, 07:36:28 PM »

Actually Christ's apostles were armed.  Remember the verse where the romans are coming for Christ and they cut the roman's ear off with a sword?
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2013, 08:18:16 PM »

Fuck the bible

Fuck you, asshole.
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« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2013, 08:20:25 PM »

when the bible was made upwritten, there was no guns invented yet, you blithering homo op.

 Roll Eyes

and the bible backs up many other ridiculous things,esp the old testament

'These are the true sayings of God' (Revelation). God is a holy/good/perfect/sinless God; it's impossible for Him to lie.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2013, 08:24:05 PM »

Why do born-agains always rave that the Old Testament has been replaced by the New Testament and then insist that the OT material is valid?  'Splain me, Lucy.  Also, what kind of person gets off on serving a brutal, vengeful deity?

The Deity is good and always justified. What is wrong with destroying evil and the unholy practitioners thereof?
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« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2013, 08:27:31 PM »

You would try and you would fail

Of course not. Because you foolishly and wickedly oppose the great God you are already condemned. Cry
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #30 on: February 06, 2013, 10:59:24 PM »

church support child molestation now who is exaggerating.cover up is not supporting.i think religious teaching are simple and straight forward.human has not changed a bit since their creation..the greed,lust.wickedness,jelousy every thing is same.whats so different.
Exaggeration, you are obviously unaware of the SINS of the Church, here in Australia, it has been going on so long and with the absolute support of the Church that the Government has started a Royal Commission into this large paedophile ring called the Church.  Your just another sick freak who supports the child molestation of the churches, their abuses against children are well documented, covering it up is indeed support, and to think humans haven't changed a bit since creation hows your absolute ignorance and lack of scientific insight.  Face it, the God of the Bible is genocidal, his supporters delusional and the Modern day Church is just the stomping ground for a ring of paedophiles.  Rather than being something Good, it is EVIL in the extreme, and to participate in such an EVIL practice by default makes you also EVIL.  Religion is Poison and it's followers poisoned.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #31 on: February 06, 2013, 11:02:16 PM »

Your just another sick freak who supports the child molestation of the churches, their abuses against children are well documented, covering it up is indeed support, and to think humans haven't changed a bit since creation hows your absolute ignorance and lack of scientific insight.  Face it, the God of the Bible is genocidal, his supporters delusional and the Modern day Church is just the stomping ground for a ring of paedophiles.  Rather than being something Good, it is EVIL in the extreme, and to participate in such an EVIL practice by default makes you also EVIL.  Religion is Poison and it's followers poisoned.

The God of the Bible was merely destroying lots of extremely wicked and corrupt men because He HAD to; what other option had He? I shudder to think what more ill they would have done had they been permitted to live. I've already explained this to you so why can't you understand? You are repeating the same old nonsense.
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #32 on: February 06, 2013, 11:03:18 PM »

The Obama worshipping aethiests always come on a Bible thread and try to get everyone riled up. Usually there's a reason behind the rejection of God's Law. A lot of these fellas have sex with other men, stolen, financed abortions and so forth and they know Hell awaits.




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Radical Plato
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« Reply #33 on: February 06, 2013, 11:12:49 PM »

The God of the Bible was merely destroying lots of extremely wicked and corrupt men because He HAD to; what other option had He? I shudder to think what more ill they would have done had they been permitted to live. I've already explained this to you so why can't you understand? You are repeating the same old nonsense.
This old chestnut, The all powerful God murders so called evil people but all the while allowing the DEVIL who was responsible to live!  Why would a god create people with evil potential and then destroy them when they fulfil that potential?  We have been down this road before, Religion cannot explain EVIL, it just simply can not, and that's why religious Nuts make up all type of strange stories to explain it, even though to a logical person they make zero sense. 

Jon your just another Religious propagandist, depending on your level of awareness, you may or may not realise this, you are programmed to replay the same answers over and over, you will never progress as a human being the whole time you stay stuck in this loop, you can go around condemning everyone who is not a Religious Nut, but all you do is confirm how pitiful it is to be in such a viscous circle.  Religion was designed for miserable people, those who weren't able to find satisfaction in life and needed to aspire to something better, even if it was in the afterlife.
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2013, 11:30:37 PM »

E-Kul your understanding of Christian theology is clearly poor.
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2013, 11:33:05 PM »

E-Kul your understanding of Christian theology is clearly poor.
Alright Dazza, please enlighten us on your theological explanation of EVIL.  This should be good for a laugh!
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2013, 11:34:16 PM »

Alright Dazza, please enlighten us on your theological explanation of EVIL.  This should be good for a laugh!

It is right in the Bible - God created man and saw that he had made a big mistake.  His creation was not good. 
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2013, 11:38:57 PM »

It is right in the Bible - God created man and saw that he had made a big mistake.  His creation was not good.  
HAHA HA HA HA HA HAHA HA HA HA HAHAHA HA HA HA HAHAHA HA HA HA HAHAHA HA HA HA HAHAHA HA HA HA HA

Thanks Dazza, I knew you wouldn't let me down, that explains everything, your theodicy is complete, highly detailed and intellectually satisfying.  Good Work! Keep it up.

Na, just joking, you're an idiot, so, your argument is that GOD isn't omnipotent and that he wasn't to good at creating stuff, in essence he was a failure. 

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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2013, 11:39:26 PM »

This old chestnut, The all powerful God murders so called evil people but all the while allowing the DEVIL who was responsible to live!  Why would a god create people with evil potential and then destroy them when they fulfil that potential?  We have been down this road before, Religion cannot explain EVIL, it just simply can not, and that's why religious Nuts make up all type of strange stories to explain it, even though to a logical person they make zero sense. 

Jon your just another Religious propagandist, depending on your level of awareness, you may or may not realise this, you are programmed to replay the same answers over and over, you will never progress as a human being the whole time you stay stuck in this loop, you can go around condemning everyone who is not a Religious Nut, but all you do is confirm how pitiful it is to be in such a viscous circle.  Religion was designed for miserable people, those who weren't able to find satisfaction in life and needed to aspire to something better, even if it was in the afterlife.

I keep repeating the same thing because it's the truth but for some reason you just cannot grasp it so you post the same tirades against God and I answer the same thing and so the cycle goes. Those evil people had free will and chose evil so they had to be punished accordingly. They were punished for their sins and not the devil's sins. The devil will be given the worst punishment of all creation when the time comes but for now as I already explained He's allowed to live freely (although God sets certain restrictions on His activity) to fulfill God's purpose. God wants to show all generations that evil men will unite with the devil in rebelling against God's way rather to choose to serve and obey God. Everything has already been explained to you but bafflingly you keep on repeating the same old rubbish as if my words had never entered your ears; why's that? And Christianity is not a religion but rather a personal relationship with the living and true God. Don't denigrate saints who are committed to serving God (while you aren't) as being nuts for their noble zeal and ardour. Potential for good and evil come with the gift of free will. Of course God only wants his creations to choose good but they can only actively make such a choice ONLY if they have free will and hence only if there is a possibility of choosing evil. Without this crucial choice man would be mere automatons or puppets but God had a loftier aim for mankind which is why He created them as free moral agents like the angels.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2013, 11:42:21 PM »

It is right in the Bible - God created man and saw that he had made a big mistake.  His creation was not good. 

God did create man good ('and He saw that it was good'). But after a while men chose their own way, the wicked way, instead of following God.
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2013, 11:46:12 PM »

I keep repeating the same thing because it's the truth but for some reason you just cannot grasp it so you post the same tirades against God and I answer the same thing and so the cycle goes. Those evil people had free will and chose evil so they had to be punished accordingly. They were punished for their sins and not the devil's sins. The devil will be given the worst punishment of all creation when the time comes but for now as I already explained He's allowed to live freely (although God sets certain restrictions on His activity) to fulfill God's purpose. God wants to show all generations that evil men will unite with the devil in rebelling against God's way rather to choose to serve and obey God. Everything has already been explained to you but bafflingly you keep on repeating the same old rubbish as if my words had never entered your ears; why's that? And Christianity is not a religion but rather a personal relationship with the living and true God. Don't denigrate saints who are committed to serving God (while you aren't) as being nuts for their noble zeal and ardour. Potential for good and evil come with the gift of free will. Of course God only wants his creations to choose good but they can only actively make such a choice ONLY if they have free will and hence only if there is a possibility of choosing evil. Without this crucial choice man would be mere automatons or puppets but God had a loftier aim for mankind which is why He created them as free moral agents like the angels.

^^^ It's hard to fathom a modern mind could believe such utter utter nonsense.

Their are many issues with free will, one is that the free will of the evil doer, very often diminish the freedom of those who suffer the evil.  Like the free will of Adam Lanza diminished the free will of the children he murdered.  It doesn't seem GOOD that a divine being would not intervene in such circumstance.

A second criticism is that the potential for evil inherent in free will may be limited by means which do not impinge on that free will. God could accomplish this by making moral actions especially pleasurable, so that they would be irresistible to us; he could also punish immoral actions immediately, and make it obvious that moral rectitude is in our self-interest; or he could allow bad moral decisions to be made, but intervene to prevent the harmful consequences from actually happening.  An omnipotent GOD could easily achieve this!

Also Free Will fails to address natural evils, such as earthquakes, hurricanes and diseases that cause much suffering

Their are also good arguments that deny the existence of free will

1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.
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« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2013, 11:59:34 PM »

God did create man good ('and He saw that it was good'). But after a while men chose their own way, the wicked way, instead of following God.
Your God seems pretty pathetic, he has the power to create man, but not the power to ensure that man acts in a way that is comforting to God.  In essence, the humans he created are more powerful because they can act against the will of god and God is powerless to do anything about it.  Your GOD sounds like a LOSER!
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2013, 12:03:03 AM »

1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.

Again, you show your poor grasp of Christian theology.
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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2013, 12:11:04 AM »

Again, you show your poor grasp of Christian theology.
I now understand you a great deal better, you are just a simple idiot!  What I quoted was the by a great philosopher called Epicurus.  When you start insisting that men far greater than you have no idea what they are going on about, is a sure indication you are a fool.  What is your argument exactly, the existence of evil is because god isn't omnipotent!  Considering that the problem of evil has been debated for centuries, your brief singular response is a clear indication you have little to no understanding on the issue and have probably never even enquired about it.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #44 on: February 07, 2013, 12:19:31 AM »

Your God seems pretty pathetic, he has the power to create man, but not the power to ensure that man acts in a way that is comforting to God.  In essence, the humans he created are more powerful because they can act against the will of god and God is powerless to do anything about it.  Your GOD sounds like a LOSER!

Of course God can do plenty about it; He is all-powerful. But He also wants us humans to have a choice just as the angels do. He can strike down all evildoers at once but in His mercy He wishes to give us time and space in which to repent. I already told you the only way for God to ensure that man acts in a way comforting to Him is to create man as robots or puppets but He wants us to CHOOSE good over evil for ourselves hence His gift of free will and it's impossible for there to be free will without the potential for evil. That's just the nature of the game. Some things are just plain impossible regardless of whether you are omnipotent like God, such as creating a tree so sturdy that He cannot chop it down. As much as infinite power cannot tackle what is impossible to achieve; that's the way it is so stop blaming God. Rather, blame the angels (especially the devil) and humans who deliberately and wickedly sinned against God. You're trying to pin the blame on God when the responsibility for the sins committed lies squarely with the free moral agents/creations who chose to do ill. Did anyone force them? Remember, the potential for evil would go utterly untapped if nobody sinned in making the wrong choice. God is a free moral agent too and He NEVER sins and as a just God He expects the same from all his creations. Man fell unfortunately and so in God's boundless mercy He sent His Son Jesus Christ to save us from righteous condemnation for our sins (He didn't do so for the angels that transgressed). In any case, God was successful in His plan for humanity because there are MANY Christians who faithfully worship Him.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #45 on: February 07, 2013, 12:26:32 AM »

^^^ It's hard to fathom a modern mind could believe such utter utter nonsense.

Their are many issues with free will, one is that the free will of the evil doer, very often diminish the freedom of those who suffer the evil.  Like the free will of Adam Lanza diminished the free will of the children he murdered.  It doesn't seem GOOD that a divine being would not intervene in such circumstance.

A second criticism is that the potential for evil inherent in free will may be limited by means which do not impinge on that free will. God could accomplish this by making moral actions especially pleasurable, so that they would be irresistible to us; he could also punish immoral actions immediately, and make it obvious that moral rectitude is in our self-interest; or he could allow bad moral decisions to be made, but intervene to prevent the harmful consequences from actually happening.  An omnipotent GOD could easily achieve this!

Also Free Will fails to address natural evils, such as earthquakes, hurricanes and diseases that cause much suffering

Their are also good arguments that deny the existence of free will

1. If an all-powerful and perfectly good god exists, then evil does not.
2. There is evil in the world.
3. Therefore, an all-powerful and perfectly good god does not exist.

Those 3 points (1 and 3 are absolute nonsense) I have just adressed. As for the prior stuff you posted, who are you to tell God what to do? If you want God to intervene then why don't you pray harder and more earnestly? God is God and He doesn't HAVE to do anything for anyone. On the contrary all creation are supposed to serve and obey Him for His own pleasure. The reason why school shootings and natural disasters still occur is the existence of sin in the universe; God WILL make all things new and destroy sin and everything will be perfect but that time hasn't arrived yet. Read Revelation to see God's timetable for the future.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #46 on: February 07, 2013, 12:28:55 AM »

I now understand you a great deal better, you are just a simple idiot!  What I quoted was the by a great philosopher called Epicurus.  When you start insisting that men far greater than you have no idea what they are going on about, is a sure indication you are a fool.  What is your argument exactly, the existence of evil is because god isn't omnipotent!  Considering that the problem of evil has been debated for centuries, your brief singular response is a clear indication you have little to no understanding on the issue and have probably never even enquired about it.

Don't bother about what mortal philosophers, mere men, say. Rather care for what God, the great God, says in His word.
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« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2013, 12:30:21 AM »

Security1, I think the ebb and flow of this thread has gotten out of hand please save us.
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« Reply #48 on: February 07, 2013, 12:36:24 AM »

Your God seems pretty pathetic, he has the power to create man, but not the power to ensure that man acts in a way that is comforting to God.  In essence, the humans he created are more powerful because they can act against the will of god and God is powerless to do anything about it.  Your GOD sounds like a LOSER!
Of course he can create mankind in an obedient form but that would defeat the purpose of his creation, for his creation was based on FREE WILL. You have not read the Bible that much is clear
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« Reply #49 on: February 07, 2013, 12:38:28 AM »

Of course God can do plenty about it; He is all-powerful. But He also wants us humans to have a choice just as the angels do. He can strike down all evildoers at once but in His mercy He wishes to give us time and space in which to repent. I already told you the only way for God to ensure that man acts in a way comforting to Him is to create man as robots or puppets but He wants us to CHOOSE good over evil for ourselves hence His gift of free will and it's impossible for there to be free will without the potential for evil. That's just the nature of the game.
Are you some type of sadist, you come up with some retarded explanation for evil, and then shrug your shoulders and say it's just a game, and them the rules, so suck it up!  So GOD could have struck down Adam Lanza, but rather than show mercy to innocent 5 year old children, he preferred to show mercy to a psychotic mass murderer.  You are a sadist, just like the God you worship.  An omnipotent could devise it so that the potential for evil inherent in free will may be limited by means which do not impinge on that free will. God could accomplish this by making moral actions especially pleasurable, so that they would be irresistible to us; he could also punish immoral actions immediately, and make it obvious that moral rectitude is in our self-interest; or he could allow bad moral decisions to be made, but intervene to prevent the harmful consequences from actually happening.  An omnipotent GOD could easily achieve this!

Quote
Some things are just plain impossible regardless of whether you are omnipotent like God, such as creating a tree so sturdy that He cannot chop it down. As much as infinite power cannot tackle what is impossible to achieve; that's the way it is so stop blaming God.

 
You fail to grasp the concept of omnipotent and all powerful don't you

Quote
Rather, blame the angels (especially the devil)  
Oh, The Devil, for the devil to exist, he must be more powerful than GOD, for if he wasn't GOD could easily destroy him

Quote
and humans who deliberately and wickedly sinned against God.  
God created humans this way, do you blame Windows 8 for crashing, or do you see the fault with the Programmer.

Quote
You're trying to pin the blame on God when the responsibility for the sins committed lies squarely with the free moral agents/creations who chose to do ill. Did anyone force them?
Typically of a religious zealot you have reduced life and complex moral decisions to a simple black and white world-view.  Did Jews who were forced by NAZIS to oversee death camps and the murder of their fellow man do the right thing by participating or should they have committed suicide?  Is a woman impregnated by rape committing evil by aborting the pregnancy? I could go on all day about the moral dilemmas humanity faces.  The so called choice between Good and EVIL isn't so black and white as you see it

Quote
God was successful in His plan for humanity because there are MANY Christians who faithfully worship Him.
What a load of bollocks!  If this was the case, the world would be a good place due to people practising Christ like actions, instead we have a world filled with War, famine, greed and poverty, mostly caused by the Religious people by the way!
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