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Author Topic: Atheist "scientist" Steven Hawkin says god didnt build the universe  (Read 6413 times)
Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #275 on: February 09, 2013, 12:47:00 AM »

Dear defender of god, why does he then not protect believers from natural evils, like diseases, tsunamis, avalanches, storms etc.?

These misfortunes happen to christians just as much as non christians. (Shown already by Galton). There is no free will behind such misfortunes, then why does god not help his loyal shee., ehr- believers?

NN

You clearly have a very poor understanding of Christian theology.
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NordicNerd
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« Reply #276 on: February 09, 2013, 12:49:52 AM »

You clearly have a very poor understanding of Christian theology.

Please enlighten me. Christians use "free will" as an excuse for the existence of evil, but free will does not appy here.

NN
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #277 on: February 09, 2013, 12:50:20 AM »

Dear defender of god, why does he then not protect believers from natural evils, like diseases, tsunamis, avalanches, storms etc.?

These misfortunes happen to christians just as much as non christians. (Shown already by Galton). There is no free will behind such misfortunes, then why does god not help his loyal shee., ehr- believers?

NN

God does protect his believers from natural evils. I'm a believer and I'm protected! Believers may not be protected all the time though; God is, however, definitely with them in their time of trouble. If you have further questions please refer to the below resource.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
 



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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #278 on: February 09, 2013, 12:52:55 AM »

Please enlighten me. Christians use "free will" as an excuse for the existence of evil, but free will does not appy here.

NN

When Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis Chapter 3), they brought evil, sickness, disease, disaster and death into the world. Sin has been wreaking havoc on the human race ever since.
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outby43
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« Reply #279 on: February 09, 2013, 12:57:32 AM »

When Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis Chapter 3), they brought evil, sickness, disease, disaster and death into the world. Sin has been wreaking havoc on the human race ever since.

Was there a definition of what a sin was back then?  Did Evil, sickness, disease, disaster and death wait around the corner for their opportunity to strike?  Who made these outlandish characters?
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #280 on: February 09, 2013, 01:02:17 AM »

Was there a definition of what a sin was back then?  Did Evil, sickness, disease, disaster and death wait around the corner for their opportunity to strike?  Who made these outlandish characters?

Why not ask these lovely Christian ladies? You ask a stupid question you get a.......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZ3OLswKKAw
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #281 on: February 09, 2013, 01:09:25 AM »

“GREAT is the LORD and GREATLY to be praised, and his GREATNESS is unsearchable!”
—Psalms 145:3

God is AMAZING!
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #282 on: February 09, 2013, 01:10:10 AM »

Please enlighten me. Christians use "free will" as an excuse for the existence of evil, but free will does not appy here.

NN

The universe is far more complex than you allow.  And god is far more complex than you understand.  Evil is a part of life.  What matters is how we react to it.
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NordicNerd
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« Reply #283 on: February 09, 2013, 01:39:32 AM »

The universe is far more complex than you allow.  And god is far more complex than you understand.  Evil is a part of life.  What matters is how we react to it.

This is christian theology? Sounds more like good common sense!

NN
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NordicNerd
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« Reply #284 on: February 09, 2013, 01:46:38 AM »

When Adam and Eve sinned (Genesis Chapter 3), they brought evil, sickness, disease, disaster and death into the world. Sin has been wreaking havoc on the human race ever since.

This was reversed when jesus gave his life on the cross. So, why do christians suffer from random accidents just like non christians?

NN
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Radical Plato
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« Reply #285 on: February 09, 2013, 01:51:10 AM »

God does protect his believers from natural evils. I'm a believer and I'm protected! Believers may not be protected all the time though; God is, however, definitely with them in their time of trouble. If you have further questions please refer to the below resource.

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
 




So the good god fearing folk of Sandy Hook were protected were they?.  Or because the 5 year old children weren't old enough for the religious brainwashing to stick and for them to believe in anything, were they fair game to be struck down, did they not deserve the protection of the LORD, or was it as you say, just one of those convenient times, when GOD in his infinite wisdom was taking some time out and removed his protection.  Why wasn't GOD there with the little children in their time of need?
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« Reply #286 on: February 09, 2013, 02:55:33 AM »

This was reversed when jesus gave his life on the cross. So, why do christians suffer from random accidents just like non christians?

NN

Yes Jesus was the new Adam, but a Christian's ultimate freedom from the stain of sin comes with the ressurrection of the body.  Remember even the greatest apostles suffered sickness and suffering in life.
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« Reply #287 on: February 09, 2013, 06:11:29 AM »

The universe is far more complex than you allow.  And god is far more complex than you understand.  Evil is a part of life.  What matters is how we react to it.

Then why does every Christian I've ever met seem to think they've got all the answers?
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« Reply #288 on: February 09, 2013, 08:03:39 AM »

So the good god fearing folk of Sandy Hook were protected were they?.  Or because the 5 year old children weren't old enough for the religious brainwashing to stick and for them to believe in anything, were they fair game to be struck down, did they not deserve the protection of the LORD, or was it as you say, just one of those convenient times, when GOD in his infinite wisdom was taking some time out and removed his protection.  Why wasn't GOD there with the little children in their time of need?

Where was the omnipresent God in Sandy Hook? Just where He always is, in the midst of the mess. He’s there suffering with the victims, bearing the horror with us and weeping with those who mourn and raging with those who rage. Do you feel righteous rage at the insanity and senselessness of this evil? So does God. Now you understand what God’s wrath is like. Do you feel helpless sorrow, pity and nameless frustration in the face of such terror? So does God. Now you understand His frustration and anger at humanity’s inhumanity. Do you feel compassion and heartache, and don’t you want to do something for the people who are hurting–do just anything you can? So does God. Now you know how much He longs to come in to our lives and help us and do something for us to heal and reconcile and make things right. Don’t you feel rage and frustration and confusion and fear for the poor sick boy who pulled the trigger? Don’t you ask what made him do such a thing? What turned him into a murderous monster? God is in the middle of all the emotions–in the middle of the mess with us so blame the evildoers not God.
 
Why doesn’t he step in and stop the evil? Because he’s God and he created our race with free will. He allow us to do what we will. He does not impose his will on us–even when he sees what horrors we have planned. He did not deliver his own Son from torture and death, but instead brought out of that darkness a new light for mankind. That’s how He handles it. He works endlessly and eternally to bring good out of evil, to bring light out of darkness, to bring life out of death and hope out of despair. This creative work of his is something he calls us to share in. We co-operate with this creative work of reconcilation. He has given us the ministry of reconciliation–to somehow fashion out of the horror–hope–to somehow keep on struggling against all odds to overcome the tsunami of evil that threatens to sweep over.
 
Where did the evil come from in the first place? You can’t blame it on a broken family. There are many kids from broken families who do not go on a killing spree. You can’t blame it on video games. Millions of kids play video games and don’t go out with guns to kill kindergarten children. You can’t blame it on guns. Millions have guns who do not kill babies. You can’t blame it on learning disabilities or being shy. There are many shy people with learning disabilities who are not killers. You can’t blame it on the devil unless there is evidence of demonic activity. We will probably never know what caused that boy to snap and go on such a senseless rampage.
 
However, I know one thing: our society is broken. Our world is broken. Our families are broken. For the last few decades we have indulged in evil. The evil of broken families. The evil of sexual promiscuity, and the subsequent violence of abortion. The evil of greed, and the subsequent violence of stealing from the poor. The evil of war. The evil of drugs. The evil of crime warfare. The evil of organized crime. The evil of a war mongering, world conquering mentality. The evil of forgetting God. The evil of materialism. The evil of complacency. The evil of forgetting that there is such a thing as evil. The evil of living a superficial selfish and pleasure seeking life and thinking that it is simply a nice, cheerful, “successful” American thing to do.
 
What I’m getting at is this: our Western society is sick–sick through and through with an insidious cancer. Just beneath the smiling surface of America there is a cancer of sin, and the symptom of this sickness is violence. I am just as horrified as the next person at the senseless murders in Connecticut, and I truly hope I am wrong, but I predict more of the same. The sickness is deep down in our culture, and it will continue to poke out it’s monstrous head (like that incubating beast the Alien movie) and ravage the land whenever it gets the chance.
 
This violence (and the other recent violence) has burst forth from our collective psyche. The boy who pulled the trigger is our son. He is our offspring. Beneath the surface our society is deeply unhealthy, and unless something is done to correct that sickness, the symptoms will continue to surface.
 
And it ain't gonna be pretty.
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #289 on: February 09, 2013, 08:05:54 AM »

Then why does every Christian I've ever met seem to think they've got all the answers?

Foolish pride.
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #290 on: February 09, 2013, 08:09:07 AM »

So the good god fearing folk of Sandy Hook were protected were they?.  Or because the 5 year old children weren't old enough for the religious brainwashing to stick and for them to believe in anything, were they fair game to be struck down, did they not deserve the protection of the LORD, or was it as you say, just one of those convenient times, when GOD in his infinite wisdom was taking some time out and removed his protection.  Why wasn't GOD there with the little children in their time of need?

Keep in mind that suffering has been a part of Christianity since its beginning. When Jesus was born, the Devil compelled his pawn King Herod to have all children 2 years old and younger murdered in an attempt to eliminate the Messiah.
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« Reply #291 on: February 09, 2013, 09:41:04 AM »

Where was the omnipresent God in Sandy Hook? Just where He always is, in the midst of the mess. He’s there suffering with the victims, bearing the horror with us and weeping with those who mourn and raging with those who rage. Do you feel righteous rage at the insanity and senselessness of this evil? So does God. Now you understand what God’s wrath is like. Do you feel helpless sorrow, pity and nameless frustration in the face of such terror? So does God. Now you understand His frustration and anger at humanity’s inhumanity. ...

What is the point of reducing your "god" to the point that "he" is  having human emotions? Human emotions stem from neurobiological systems such as the amygdala, the insula, hypothalamus, the limbic system in general and hormones. Without these systems- no emotion.

Does your "god" have an amygdala that fuels his "wrath". Does "he" release epinephrine and norepinephrine and cortisol as "he" feels "wrath"?


Your belief system is stupid beyond salvation. Man made god in his image....

NN
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #292 on: February 09, 2013, 09:59:06 AM »

What is the point of reducing your "god" to the point that "he" is  having human emotions? Human emotions stem from neurobiological systems such as the amygdala, the insula, hypothalamus, the limbic system in general and hormones. Without these systems- no emotion.

Does your "god" have an amygdala that fuels his "wrath". Does "he" release epinephrine and norepinephrine and cortisol as "he" feels "wrath"?


Your belief system is stupid beyond salvation. Man made god in his image....

NN

LOL, God is GOD. He sure doesn't need the human body to feel anything. Emotions are emotions, period. These can be had any any sentient being with enough intelligence and free will, be it a God, angel or human. Remember, despite your blasphemous statement and filthy lie, God made man in His image. That means everything man is comes from God; why should you be surprised if man is somewhat like His Creator in his capacity to feel? However, God's complexity is infinitely what man can even comprehend with his finite brain. There's nothing wrong with or stupid about my belief system. Rather the problem lies with your hardness of heart and pleasure in sin. If you don't mend your wicked ways then you'll be damned eternally. Instead of talking shit about things you obviously know nothing about try pulling your head out of your ass and start obeying your Creator for a change.
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« Reply #293 on: February 09, 2013, 10:23:21 AM »

Foolish pride.


Great answer.  I appreciate the honesty.
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« Reply #294 on: February 09, 2013, 10:41:38 AM »

LOL, God is GOD. He sure doesn't need the human body to feel anything. Emotions are emotions, period. These can be had any any sentient being with enough intelligence and free will, be it a God, angel or human. Remember, despite your blasphemous statement and filthy lie, God made man in His image. That means everything man is comes from God; why should you be surprised if man is somewhat like His Creator in his capacity to feel? However, God's complexity is infinitely what man can even comprehend with his finite brain. There's nothing wrong with or stupid about my belief system. Rather the problem lies with your hardness of heart and pleasure in sin. If you don't mend your wicked ways then you'll be damned eternally. Instead of talking shit about things you obviously know nothing about try pulling your head out of your ass and start obeying your Creator for a change.

You are a troll, but I'll bite ;-). What is shocking about you christians, is that you don't realize how egosentrical you are, or perhaps antroposentrical is a better term. Human emotion is a property of the human nervous system. Why on earth do you think human emotions apply to an omnipotent and omniscient "god"?

As I said: Your god is ridiculous. An omnipotent and all-knowing creature would not have emotional systems like that of humans. That would be to reduce that "god" to a mammal. Mammals "love" their babies. Mammals "fear" dangerous situations. Mammals are "angry" at rivals. By your reasoning, god is a mammal.

Does your god fear things in the sky? Is your god "angry"? What would be the point of that. god need not be angry- he is according to you- omnipotent. No need for anger.

Many christians name god as "father". This is an example of man inventing god in mans image. Man loves his parents and his children, ergo: there is a god who does the same. Stupid, primitive and ridiculous! god as mammal!

NN

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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #295 on: February 09, 2013, 10:50:49 AM »

You are a troll, but I'll bite ;-). What is shocking about you christians, is that you don't realize how egosentrical you are, or perhaps antroposentrical is a better term. Human emotion is a property of the human nervous system. Why on earth do you think human emotions apply to an omnipotent and omniscient "god"?

As I said: Your god is ridiculous. An omnipotent and all-knowing creature would not have emotional systems like that of humans. That would be to reduce that "god" to a mammal. Mammals "love" their babies. Mammals "fear" dangerous situations. Mammals are "angry" at rivals. By your reasoning, god is a mammal.

Does your god fear things in the sky? Is your god "angry"? What would be the point of that. god need not be angry- he is according to you- omnipotent. No need for anger.

Many christians name god as "father". This is an example of man inventing god in mans image. Man loves his parents and his children, ergo: there is a god who does the same. Stupid, primitive and ridiculous! god as mammal!

NN



You're trolling away like a madman now, and I'm the troll?Huh What sort of warped logic is that? You fuckin' nitwit, read the below and learn. Of course God has emotions because He is also a being, not a robot. What the hell is wrong with your little brain?

God's Impassiblity
It is often wrongly argued from Acts 14:11-15 (esp. v. 15), that God is without passions, feelings, or emotions. And, while it is true that these verses draw a very clear distinction between man and God, they do not teach that God is emotionless. In fact, the whole of scriptures teaches clearly that God has emotions. God loves his people (Is. 54:5), is true love (1 John 4:Cool, rejoices with his people (Is. 62:5), is grieved by his people (Ps. 78:40), pities his people (Ps. 103:13), and expresses his wrath against sin (Ex. 32:10), etc.... As creatures made in the image of God, one might expect that the feelings and emotions of man are reflections to some extent of God's own emotional capacities.

Because scripture interprets scripture, the key point of Acts 14:11-5, therefore, is not that God has no feelings or emotions. While Paul is teaching that there is a fundamental difference between man's nature and God's, the difference is not that man has passions, while God does not. Instead, the emotions of man are quite different from God's. Additionally, these emotions and feelings happen upon the two quite differently.

An examination of the acts of God recorded in the Bible compared to the track record of man demonstrates unambiguous differences in how God bears and expresses his emotions. In the case of God, there can be no rash or extreme forms of emotion. To be sure, God's emotions never lead to sin. Man, on the other hand, will often act in the extreme and allow his fleeting emotions to sway his actions or immediate thinking. In many cases, man's emotions lead directly to sin (Jer. 17:9). Man is certainly like a "wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind" (James 1:6). Man is not slow to speak or act out of his emotions, but he is rash. God, on the other hand, is balanced, temperate, and unchanging in his purposes.

The second factor that distinguishes the emotions of God and man is the means by which the two experience these emotions. In the case of God, all of his emotions are entered into voluntarily. God is never "surprised" by something that affects him, since he is the Sovereign Creator who has planned all things from before all time. Man, on the other hand, is subject to experiences beyond his control and enters into all of his emotions rather involuntarily.

Conclusions
Therefore, when God is described Biblically to be impassible, it does not mean that God has no feeling. For the contrary is quite the truth, that God is personal and has interacted directly with man throughout history - for he is God With Us, Immanuel. That is the beauty of a Covenant God, a God who most supremely demonstrated his emotions and feelings for man in the cross of Christ, by sending his own Son into this world to bear the sins of his people. It is perhaps the greatest act of personal love and wrath a God would ever have conceived and executed. It was purposed from before all time and carried out with surety in time in Jesus Christ. It is the act of an impassible God who is complete with joy, yet who feels and emotes perfectly and voluntarily.
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NordicNerd
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« Reply #296 on: February 09, 2013, 10:58:55 AM »

You're trolling away like a madman now, and I'm the troll?Huh What sort of warped logic is that? You fuckin' nitwit, read the below and learn. Of course God has emotions because He is also a being, not a robot. What the hell is wrong with your little brain?

God's Impassiblity
It is often wrongly argued from Acts 14:11-15 (esp. v. 15), that God is without passions, feelings, or emotions......


You stole that from http://xristian.org/qs/godfeeling.html

Pathetic plagiarism. You are clearly not able to think for yourself. Typical religious nutcase.

NN
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Jon Harridan
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« Reply #297 on: February 09, 2013, 11:01:07 AM »

You stole that from http://xristian.org/qs/godfeeling.html

Pathetic plagiarism.

NN

No, I just took the material to answer your stupid question. You should be grateful I even bothered instead of this shit you're giving me. The point here is read the stuff and learn. It doesn't matter who wrote it as long as you understand the truth and escape the veil of ignorance.
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NordicNerd
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« Reply #298 on: February 09, 2013, 11:03:20 AM »

No, I just took the material to answer your stupid question. You should be grateful I even bothered instead of this shit you're giving me. The point here is read the stuff and learn. It doesn't matter who wrote it as long as you understand the truth and escape the veil of ignorance.

No quotes, no reference- hence plagiarism.

NN
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Bad Boy Dazza
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« Reply #299 on: February 09, 2013, 11:04:28 AM »

You try to say Christians say god is like us, and how ridiculous to suggest he is just a mammal, but what about the point of view that it is the other way around and we are like god, only shadows of his greatness of course.

So it is not reducing god to a mammal, but saying a mammal has qualities like god, in a humbler sense.

You are a troll, but I'll bite ;-). What is shocking about you christians, is that you don't realize how egosentrical you are, or perhaps antroposentrical is a better term. Human emotion is a property of the human nervous system. Why on earth do you think human emotions apply to an omnipotent and omniscient "god"?

As I said: Your god is ridiculous. An omnipotent and all-knowing creature would not have emotional systems like that of humans. That would be to reduce that "god" to a mammal. Mammals "love" their babies. Mammals "fear" dangerous situations. Mammals are "angry" at rivals. By your reasoning, god is a mammal.

Does your god fear things in the sky? Is your god "angry"? What would be the point of that. god need not be angry- he is according to you- omnipotent. No need for anger.

Many christians name god as "father". This is an example of man inventing god in mans image. Man loves his parents and his children, ergo: there is a god who does the same. Stupid, primitive and ridiculous! god as mammal!

NN


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