Brown University: Queer minority worshops to overcome attraction to white gays.

[tonymctones]

We are not normalizing it,you are talking about basic rights of human beings, you sound like a nazi dude.

What objections do you have towards gay marriage? what impact do you expect this to have? What is a normal society? one where blacks cannot drink out of the same water fountain? or perhaps one where woman are to keep covered from head to toe and be subservient?

I pass judgement sure, I don't try and mandate what they can and can't do with there lives especially when it harms no one. There is not one good argument against gay marriage, besides religious bigotry. Religion is a relic, dying slow and painfully, it is corrupt and rotten at the core.

LOL first youre the last person on here that should lecture anyone on hypocrisey.

second, it is normalizing an abnormal behavior...homosexuality by the pure numbers of statistics is abnormal. Im guessing you have a decent understanding of statistics, bell curves, standard deviations, variances etc...

homosexuality being at most 3% of the population puts them a good 2 standard deviations away on a standard bell curve...THAT IS ABNORMAL!!!!

only a retard would argue that in a species that requires 2 OPPOSITE SEX INDIVIDUALS to procreate that homosexuality is not abnormal

[tonymctones]

It isn't clear what you're saying because it isn't clear what you mean by 'normal.' Let's explore the logical space a bit:

If by 'normal' you mean a property that 50+1% of human beings have, then you are simply engaging in semantics by arguing that we shouldn't consider as normal a property which you have stipulated is abnormal by definition -- fine as far as it goes, but irrelevant. No one is attempting to normalize homosexuality in this sense. What people are doing is trying to grant basic rights to an abnormal (as we've defined it in this paragraph) population on the basis of their being no compelling reason not to do so, plus a couple of good reasons to do so.

If by 'normal' you mean 'natural,' or resulting from our genetic endowment, then you are simply mistaken as homosexuality is exhibited across hundreds of species (including our own) and in stable percentages of species' populations over time (including our own). The only possible explanation for this is that it is a natural property.

If by 'normal' you mean what society deems acceptable, then you have simply made an assertion without argumentation -- you'd need to give some compelling evidence that if homosexuality were deemed acceptable, adverse societal outcomes would result. You'd probably also need to show that the arguments to the contrary are mistaken.

Finally, if you're simply expressing your feelings about homosexuality, then that's fine, but has no bearing on what the country's public policy ought to be.

goodness try and actually get a point across instead of trying to post up a wall of text to seem intelligent...

[tonymctones]

How does it normalize abnormal behavior by making legal?

Does that apply to everything or just homosexuality?

it isnt just about legalizing it Oz, dont sit here and try and act like the gay propaganda has not tried to normalize homosexuality in the eyes of society over the past decades.

only an ignorant moron would argue that they dont seek to normalize the behaviour in others eyes. Legalizing it is simply another step in that agenda bro.

[tonymctones]

You are wasting your time with Tony.  He basically engages in logical fallacies in an effort to appear bright yet doesn't really grasp the fact they are just knee jerk emotional appeals that do nothing to prove or define the underlying claims. 

LMFAO what logical fallacies am I engaging in?

that statiscally homosexuality is an an anomaly?

that it happens in nature as a genetic mutation?

or that the default sexuality of a species that requires opposite sex individuals to procreate is heterosexual?

LMFAO sorry hoss, I dont have anything against gays...be gay for all I care, just dont expect me to act like youre normal

[Primemuscle]

i'd ask him out. and pay for drinks and dinner.

Why???

[Primemuscle]

...homosexuality by the pure numbers of statistics is abnormal. Im guessing you have a decent understanding of statistics, bell curves, standard deviations, variances etc....

Normalcy cannot always be measured by statistics, bell curves, standard deviations and variances etc. Just because a particular behavior is less common then another does not automatically mean it is abnormal. Sometimes what is more rare is also more cherished. People with red hair and green eyes are definitely in the minority, however they are hardly abnormal. People who achieve great wealth are clearly the minority. Are they abnormal too?

[Primemuscle]

Is being attracted to the same gender a choice?  Liberals and homosexuals say not, not a choice. 

Is being attracted to the same race a choice?  Apparently liberals and homosexuals believe yes, it is a choice.  wtf? 

let me help you out. Sexual attraction is complicated.

In the early days of civilization, attractions were primarily based on things that insured the survival of the human race. Humans were tribal. Therefore, men were attracted to women who had features which indicated they were likely to bear children. Women were attracted to men who would protect and provide for them and there offspring. Because of the closeness of a tribal group, attractions to people outside the tribe were unusual. Therefore, race was not an issue.

My unscientific analysis of sexual attraction today, weighs heavily on the fact that there is no longer a need to populate the earth, since it is clearly over-populated. Most humans are far less tribal then they once were. This makes attractions outside of someone's "tribe" or race more understandable. Not only that, inbreeding often results in weakening the gene pool. Some examples of this are hemophilia, mental and other physical disorders. The ultimate counterpoint to inbreeding is breeding with persons of another race. As to whether doing so is a conscious choice is debatable.

When we think of men and women, we often see them as completely opposite. However, there is a lot of middle ground emotionally, sexually and physically. Some women and some men are exclusively attracted to the opposite sex. Other women and men acknowledge that they hold attraction to both sexes and there are people who are only attracted to the same sex. I believe people when they claim these attractions are not a choice so much as being something which is innate in there makeup. This brings us back to the fact that there is no longer as great a need to populate the earth.  

 

[Necrosis]

LOL first youre the last person on here that should lecture anyone on hypocrisey.

second, it is normalizing an abnormal behavior...homosexuality by the pure numbers of statistics is abnormal. Im guessing you have a decent understanding of statistics, bell curves, standard deviations, variances etc...

homosexuality being at most 3% of the population puts them a good 2 standard deviations away on a standard bell curve...THAT IS ABNORMAL!!!!

only a retard would argue that in a species that requires 2 OPPOSITE SEX INDIVIDUALS to procreate that homosexuality is not abnormal

Tony your argument doesn't have a point as syntax pointed out. Are you suggesting that things that are not near the mean are to be outlawed? because that's all I can take from your argument.Homosexuality is a natural thing that occurs in many species, sexuality is a scale not a dichotomy. Is your argument about human population? I think that has been dismissed, in vitro anyone? Or how about that massive overpopulation? some countries have bans on number of offspring.

Give me one good argument besides "it ain't right" please.

The constitution forbids this form of discrimination.

[tonymctones]

Normalcy cannot always be measured by statistics, bell curves, standard deviations and variances etc. Just because a particular behavior is less common then another does not automatically mean it is abnormal. Sometimes what is more rare is also more cherished. People with red hair and green eyes are definitely in the minority, however they are hardly abnormal. People who achieve great wealth are clearly the minority. Are they abnormal too?

actually, normality is always measured in numbers...

sorry hoss again you cant even begin to argue that the default sexual orientation for humans is not heterosexual.

meaning that homosexuality is an abnormal trait for a species that requires heterosexual partners to procreate

[tonymctones]

Tony your argument doesn't have a point as syntax pointed out. Are you suggesting that things that are not near the mean are to be outlawed? because that's all I can take from your argument.Homosexuality is a natural thing that occurs in many species, sexuality is a scale not a dichotomy. Is your argument about human population? I think that has been dismissed, in vitro anyone? Or how about that massive overpopulation? some countries have bans on number of offspring.

Give me one good argument besides "it ain't right" please.

The constitution forbids this form of discrimination.

where did I say that it should be outlawed? you ppl get so over zealous and liberal at the very moment someone has a view point against yours.

I have nothing against gays, be gay for all I care...I couldnt care less, but dont try and get others to view it as a normal behavior b/c its not.

sorry bro simply b/c something occurs in nature as an abnormality doesnt make it a normal behavior...Its still an abnormal behavior.

To argue that your stance is to argue that the default sexual orientation for humans is not heterosexual...is that what youre arguing?

The argument I am making is that we shouldnt normalize abnormal behaviors simply for the sake of less than 3% of the population. Give them the same rights I dont care, if ppl dont want it to be called marriage call it something else or get rid of marriage as a govt institution all together and make marriage private.

DO NOT NORMALIZE ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS FEELINGS, THERE IS A REASON ITS ABNORMAL

[LurkerNoMore]

Tony your argument doesn't have a point as syntax pointed out. Are you suggesting that things that are not near the mean are to be outlawed? because that's all I can take from your argument.Homosexuality is a natural thing that occurs in many species, sexuality is a scale not a dichotomy. Is your argument about human population? I think that has been dismissed, in vitro anyone? Or how about that massive overpopulation? some countries have bans on number of offspring.

Give me one good argument besides "it ain't right" please.

The constitution forbids this form of discrimination.

Of course they don't.  This has been the underlying issue of his posts for the entire thread. 

If you want to stick to a sense of "natural" and "abnormal" by Tony's definition, then no one should fly in an airplane, ride in a car, enjoy air conditioning, use a microwave, etc...  because that is abnormal and not natural.

[tonymctones]

Of course they don't.  This has been the underlying issue of his posts for the entire thread. 

If you want to stick to a sense of "natural" and "abnormal" by Tony's definition, then no one should fly in an airplane, ride in a car, enjoy air conditioning, use a microwave, etc...  because that is abnormal and not natural.

answer this question, whats the default sexual orientation of humans?

[LurkerNoMore]

answer this question, whats the default sexual orientation of humans?

Default?  Ummm well gee.....   let's see....   Let me look that up...  I see "default hair color", "default eye color", "default gender", ummm.... nothing about sexuality being a default. 

Maybe there is a box on the BC that parents check to establish sexuality?  Or maybe the babies are taken into a room and told to make a choice?

 

Good luck with that.  He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.

Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him.  Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it. 

^^^
Point = Proven.

[tonymctones]

Default?  Ummm well gee.....   let's see....   Let me look that up...  I see "default hair color", "default eye color", "default gender", ummm.... nothing about sexuality being a default. 

Maybe there is a box on the BC that parents check to establish sexuality?  Or maybe the babies are taken into a room and told to make a choice?

 


^^^
Point = Proven.

so its your belief that heterosexual is not the default sexual orientation of a human?

its your belief that in a species that requires 2 opposite sex individuals to procreate, that heterosexuality isnt the default?

LMFAO the ends in which you morons will go to defend your stances is just amazing

[Necrosis]

where did I say that it should be outlawed? you ppl get so over zealous and liberal at the very moment someone has a view point against yours.

I have nothing against gays, be gay for all I care...I couldnt care less, but dont try and get others to view it as a normal behavior b/c its not.

sorry bro simply b/c something occurs in nature as an abnormality doesnt make it a normal behavior...Its still an abnormal behavior.

To argue that your stance is to argue that the default sexual orientation for humans is not heterosexual...is that what youre arguing?

The argument I am making is that we shouldnt normalize abnormal behaviors simply for the sake of less than 3% of the population. Give them the same rights I dont care, if ppl dont want it to be called marriage call it something else or get rid of marriage as a govt institution all together and make marriage private.

DO NOT NORMALIZE ABNORMAL BEHAVIOR SIMPLY FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS FEELINGS, THERE IS A REASON ITS ABNORMAL

Ok fine, I thought you were against gay marriage and equal rights under the law.

Sexuality isn't the way you describe, which makes arguing impossible. No one in there right mind who has any knowledge of psychology would argue you are either gay or straight, the world doesn't work like that.

[tonymctones]

Ok fine, I thought you were against gay marriage and equal rights under the law.

Sexuality isn't the way you describe, which makes arguing impossible. No one in there right mind who has any knowledge of psychology would argue you are either gay or straight, the world doesn't work like that.

actually sexuality does work like that and I have a BS degreee in pysch....sorry hoss youre wrong...

I am against gay marriage, but I dont think that its wrong to call it something different with the same rights or make marriage strictly a private institution.

[chadstallion]

Why???

because I think he would be fascinating to visit with, in person.

[Soul Crusher]

because I think he would be fascinating to visit with, in person.

Who me?   Ill accept the free booze - but you aint grtting anywhere near me otherwise.

[chadstallion]

Who me?   Ill accept the free booze - but you aint grtting anywhere near me otherwise.

you stay on your side of the table; i'll stay on mine.
i'll even spring for appetizers.

[Primemuscle]

actually, normality is always measured in numbers...

sorry hoss again you cant even begin to argue that the default sexual orientation for humans is not heterosexual.

meaning that homosexuality is an abnormal trait for a species that requires heterosexual partners to procreate

Of course heterosexuality is the "default" sexual orientation for most all creatures on earth, not just humans. However, I you are happier labeling homosexuality as abnormal, you are welcome to do that. Most people who are homosexual see nothing abnormal about it, nor should they.

Is a Giraffe normal? Is a cow? How about a bald eagle? There is a huge variance in these animals' population. Just because bald eagles are nearly extinct, does not make them abnormal. There are very few humans who are redheads with green eyes as opposed to brunettes with brown eyes. Do you find redheads abnormal? Do you think people with brown hair and brown eyes are more normal? There is a huge difference between the terms normal and abnormal  and common verses uncommon. Normality is not always measured in numbers.

[tonymctones]

Of course heterosexuality is the "default" sexual orientation for most all creatures on earth, not just humans. However, I you are happier labeling homosexuality as abnormal, you are welcome to do that. Most people who are homosexual see nothing abnormal about it, nor should they.

Is a Giraffe normal? Is a cow? How about a bald eagle? There is a huge variance in these animals' population. Just because bald eagles are nearly extinct, does not make them abnormal. There are very few humans who are redheads with green eyes as opposed to brunettes with brown eyes. Do you find redheads abnormal? Do you think people with brown hair and brown eyes are more normal? There is a huge difference between the terms normal and abnormal  and common verses uncommon. Normality is not always measured in numbers.

Its not that I see homosexuality as abnormal bro, IT IS ABNORMAL!!!!

normality is measured in numbers only when emotions come into play is normality not measured in numbers!!!!

sorry bro gay ppl are abnormal, nothing wrong with it...accept it and move on...dont expect ppl to recognize your behavior as normal

[Primemuscle]

Its not that I see homosexuality as abnormal bro, IT IS ABNORMAL!!!!

normality is measured in numbers only when emotions come into play is normality not measured in numbers!!!!

sorry bro gay ppl are abnormal, nothing wrong with it...accept it and move on...dont expect ppl to recognize your behavior as normal

It appears that you are splitting hairs, or maybe I am. Either way, believe what you will, it makes no difference to me. This whole conversation is going nowhere. It is time to end it. People are getting bored with it, including me.

[tonymctones]

It appears that you are splitting hairs, or maybe I am. Either way, believe what you will, it makes no difference to me. This whole conversation is going nowhere. It is time to end it. People are getting bored with it, including me.

absolutely not splitting hairs, you are trying very hard to justify your beliefs though I will say that....and again whatever you seem like a good dude so if youre bisexual who cares.

But dont sit there and judge someone b/c they view an abnormal behavior as abnormal and feel it shouldnt be normalized in society.

[Necrosis]

actually sexuality does work like that and I have a BS degreee in pysch....sorry hoss youre wrong...

I am against gay marriage, but I dont think that its wrong to call it something different with the same rights or make marriage strictly a private institution.

Might want to go back and upgrade your marks or something, what they are teaching you is wrong. Is this a christian college?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

"Kinsey reports
Main article: Kinsey Reports

    Men: 11.6% of white males aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives.[7] The study also reported that 10% of American males surveyed were "more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55" (in the 5 to 6 range).[7]
    Women: 7% of single females aged 20–35 and 4% of previously married females aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives.[8] 2% to 6% of females, aged 20–35, were given a rating of 5[9] and 1% to 3% of unmarried females aged 20–35 were rated as 6.[10]


Please don't start with academia, when I got my Psychology degree 6 years ago I would have bragged but seriously, your education means nothing if you are just wrong.

[tonymctones]

Might want to go back and upgrade your marks or something, what they are teaching you is wrong. Is this a christian college?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinsey_scale

"Kinsey reports
Main article: Kinsey Reports

    Men: 11.6% of white males aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives.[7] The study also reported that 10% of American males surveyed were "more or less exclusively homosexual for at least three years between the ages of 16 and 55" (in the 5 to 6 range).[7]
    Women: 7% of single females aged 20–35 and 4% of previously married females aged 20–35 were given a rating of 3 for this period of their lives.[8] 2% to 6% of females, aged 20–35, were given a rating of 5[9] and 1% to 3% of unmarried females aged 20–35 were rated as 6.[10]


Please don't start with academia, when I got my Psychology degree 6 years ago I would have bragged but seriously, your education means nothing if you are just wrong.

LMFAO if you have a psych degree then you know the many many issues with the study, its parameters and the conclusions it draws.

Sorry hoss, try again...

I can make up a study that gives me any result I want, doesnt make it right....

PS I am not bragging brain child, I was simply letting you know as you stated that no one with education in psych believes like I do