Author Topic: going to church pisses me off  (Read 20760 times)

syntaxmachine

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #125 on: April 08, 2013, 01:15:00 PM »
Wow, you know what inverse correlation is.

Yes, I'm kind of a big deal.

He said same shit, he just hasn't used that particular word which makes no difference,

No, he expressed a completely different thought -- one contrary to the meaning of the one he ought to have expressed. Lest anyone get confused and think there is an actual direct correlation between belief and IQ, I corrected him.

yet you just HAD to emphasis the fact that you're so fucking "well educated".

"Wahhhhh dis giy assembeled wordz in uh way abuve dah 12th grade levul and I'm mad cuz dats somehow wurth pointin ahwt tu me, pluss I am sensitiv becuz of all dah illegal drugs in my veins to feel gud about myself and my big ripply muscle avatar and guyno bewbies wahhhhh."

If you feel there is a good God just like you feel what you see is real world [,] then no, there's no there aren't any rational arguments I can use. I wouldn't medicate you though or do anything with that because I see no harm. When you start affecting other people with your whatever your "god" told you then I would suggest locking you up in medical facility. I wouldn't attept to medicate or treat you, however, unless your beliefs caused you to adversely affect others' lives.

abijahmaniaco

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #126 on: April 08, 2013, 01:33:12 PM »
Would you consider someone who believes he has alien implants

what about calf implants? ???

The True Adonis

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #127 on: April 08, 2013, 02:13:33 PM »
I don't agree with your stance on organised religion, but I respect how deeply you believe. There is nothing bad I can say about it.
Why would you respect a "deep" belief just for beliefs sake?  ???

Do you respect the Taliban as well?

King Shizzo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #128 on: April 08, 2013, 03:39:36 PM »
Why would you respect a "deep" belief just for beliefs sake?  ???

Do you respect the Taliban as well?
They have the same right to believe as everyone else. To kill? No

The True Adonis

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #129 on: April 08, 2013, 03:46:57 PM »
They have the same right to believe as everyone else. To kill? No
Do you respect their "Deep Belief" of Anti-Americanism?

What I am getting at is why would you respect someone just because they believe something whether its true or not, justified or not.  Why?   ???  I don`t understand that at all.  Please tell me why.

King Shizzo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #130 on: April 08, 2013, 03:50:27 PM »
Do you respect their "Deep Belief" of Anti-Americanism?

What I am getting at is why would you respect someone just because they believe something whether its true or not, justified or not.  Why?   ???  I don`t understand that at all.  Please tell me why.
As long as they are peaceful in doing so. America is far from innocent. We are the modern day Roman Empire. We run shit, so we set the rules. I find just as much validity in the ancient aliens theory, as I do with other religions

The True Adonis

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #131 on: April 08, 2013, 03:54:39 PM »
As long as they are peaceful in doing so. America is far from innocent. We are the modern day Roman Empire. We run shit, so we set the rules. I find just as much validity in the ancient aliens theory, as I do with other religions
So you respect anyone who has a strong belief in something, no matter how absurd or incorrect or damaging it may be simply because, according to your rationale, the stronger the conviction-the more respect one should get.

I think that is quite silly, don`t you?

King Shizzo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #132 on: April 08, 2013, 04:01:30 PM »
So you respect anyone who has a strong belief in something, no matter how absurd or incorrect or damaging it may be simply because, according to your rationale, the stronger the conviction-the more respect one should get.

I think that is quite silly, don`t you?
As long as it doesnt effect me. Man Of Steel is a perfect example of that.

Radical Plato

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #133 on: April 08, 2013, 09:30:30 PM »
Fair enough.

If you don't mind indulging me a bit further I have one more honest question (and anyone can answer this for that matter).  Given that I am a believer, what would you recommend to help me eliminate my belief?  No traps here....no preaching coming....nothing of the sort....just a question.
Ask yourself why you are an atheist to all other religions other than your own, why don't you believe in Allah, or Odin or any of the other many GODS.  Once you answer honestly why you don't believe in the many other Gods, you will have your answer as to how you can move on from the current belief you have around the GOD you do currently believe in.  Even religious people are atheists when it comes to religions other than their own.  Are you able to give a reasonable explanation why you don't believe in the many other Religions and Gods  worshipped throughout time?  I am curious as to how believers justify the selection of their current faith and their denial of other religious systems.
V

calfzilla

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #134 on: April 08, 2013, 09:43:13 PM »
Ask yourself why you are an atheist to all other religions other than your own, why don't you believe in Allah, or Odin or any of the other many GODS.  Once you answer honestly why you don't believe in the many other Gods, you will have your answer as to how you can move on from the current belief you have around the GOD you do currently believe in.  Even religious people are atheists when it comes to religions other than their own.  Are you able to give a reasonable explanation why you don't believe in the many other Religions and Gods  worshipped throughout time?  I am curious as to how believers justify the selection of their current faith and their denial of other religious systems.

Good post.

bigmc

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #135 on: April 09, 2013, 04:40:03 AM »
So you respect anyone who has a strong belief in something, no matter how absurd or incorrect or damaging it may be simply because, according to your rationale, the stronger the conviction-the more respect one should get.

I think that is quite silly, don`t you?

i respect your strong belief in the adonis principles

despite all the evidence against them
T

Man of Steel

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #136 on: April 09, 2013, 08:35:07 AM »
Ask yourself why you are an atheist to all other religions other than your own, why don't you believe in Allah, or Odin or any of the other many GODS.  Once you answer honestly why you don't believe in the many other Gods, you will have your answer as to how you can move on from the current belief you have around the GOD you do currently believe in.  Even religious people are atheists when it comes to religions other than their own.  Are you able to give a reasonable explanation why you don't believe in the many other Religions and Gods  worshipped throughout time?  I am curious as to how believers justify the selection of their current faith and their denial of other religious systems.

The approach you suggest is reasonable.  Honestly, my response to your question is the same as the response I gave to another question in this thread:

For me personally, the difference is found in what was demonstrated in scripture (in terms of salvation in Christ) and how it is repeatable today by those that belief...that real, tangible relationship with God.  Salvation through grace by faith in Jesus Christ and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit thereafter is as real today as it was with the original disciples and apostles approximately 2000 years ago.

I know that ad hominem replies are often not granted much (or any) consideration, but to elaborate a bit further requires some emotion since a relationship with God isn't clinical or purely textual....it is absolutely personal and comes down to the Holy Spirit and the believer.  The very same Holy Spirit that indwelled disciples such as Peter, Thomas and John at Pentecost and later Paul after his Damascus road conversion is the same that indwells me as a believer today.  The experience changed me through and through, but I take no credit for myself....all I did was surrender to the Lord's will with humility.  After that his reality, his presence was made abundantly evident and does so to this day.  Today my desire is that others that don't believe will experience for themselves the very same things and hopefully in even more powerful ways than I ever have.

God bless

BigCyp

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #137 on: April 09, 2013, 08:47:20 AM »
The approach you suggest is reasonable.  Honestly, my response to your question is the same as the response I gave to another question in this thread:

I know that ad hominem replies are often not granted much (or any) consideration, but to elaborate a bit further requires some emotion since a relationship with God isn't clinical or purely textual....it is absolutely personal and comes down to the Holy Spirit and the believer.  The very same Holy Spirit that indwelled disciples such as Peter, Thomas and John at Pentecost and later Paul after his Damascus road conversion is the same that indwells me as a believer today.  The experience changed me through and through, but I take no credit for myself....all I did was surrender to the Lord's will with humility.  After that his reality, his presence was made abundantly evident and does so to this day.  Today my desire is that others that don't believe will experience for themselves the very same things and hopefully in even more powerful ways than I ever have.

God bless

Sounds like you love the Rock

Mr Nobody

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #138 on: April 09, 2013, 08:53:06 AM »
I'm not going to any church for them to ask for money, to me the same as the people holding signs at a stop light asking for money.

Man of Steel

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #139 on: April 09, 2013, 01:58:55 PM »
I'm not going to any church for them to ask for money, to me the same as the people holding signs at a stop light asking for money.

Many, many churches have done away with passing offering plates and have opted for discrete dropboxes for giving that has no part of the actual church service.  Many modern churches also provide online giving abilities and/or giving by traditional mail.  Church services with preachers asking congregations for cash is becoming a thing of the past.  The tearful, mascara-running, overly-dramatic "Jim Baker, Jimmy Swaggert" 80s approach of "We need $10,000 of your dollars to fund God's house!!" is a thing of the past in most modern churches.  Certainly some churches still pass plates and you can find tv ministries asking for cash 24/7 if you're so inclined, but your typical modern church experience no longer incorporates "plate passing".....that's an outdated approach that is being retired.  In essence, if you wanna give then give, if you don't wanna give then don't give, but either way the majority of modern churches aren't gonna ask you for you a dime and no one will know whether or not you've given.

For example, my family has visited about 5 different churches over the last couple years and none of them passed plates or asked for cash.  Then I went to visit my grandmother's old, old church and my sister's small country church and both passed plates there.


Radical Plato

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #140 on: April 10, 2013, 06:25:20 AM »
Ask yourself why you are an atheist to all other religions other than your own, why don't you believe in Allah, or Odin or any of the other many GODS.  Once you answer honestly why you don't believe in the many other Gods, you will have your answer as to how you can move on from the current belief you have around the GOD you do currently believe in.  Even religious people are atheists when it comes to religions other than their own.  Are you able to give a reasonable explanation why you don't believe in the many other Religions and Gods  worshipped throughout time?  I am curious as to how believers justify the selection of their current faith and their denial of other religious systems.

The approach you suggest is reasonable.  Honestly, my response to your question is the same as the response I gave to another question in this thread:

I know that ad hominem replies are often not granted much (or any) consideration, but to elaborate a bit further requires some emotion since a relationship with God isn't clinical or purely textual....it is absolutely personal and comes down to the Holy Spirit and the believer.  The very same Holy Spirit that indwelled disciples such as Peter, Thomas and John at Pentecost and later Paul after his Damascus road conversion is the same that indwells me as a believer today.  The experience changed me through and through, but I take no credit for myself....all I did was surrender to the Lord's will with humility.  After that his reality, his presence was made abundantly evident and does so to this day.  Today my desire is that others that don't believe will experience for themselves the very same things and hopefully in even more powerful ways than I ever have.

God bless
You have attempted to explain why you believe in your GOD and religion and not why you DON'T believe in other GODS or their RELIGION, which was essentially my question.  Also, I had a little trouble following your explanation, are you stating you felt a strong impulse to Surrender completely and just decided to practice blind faith and as a result of that choice more was revealed to you that acknowledged that the choice you made (to surrender) was the right one.  
V

Man of Steel

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #141 on: April 10, 2013, 02:01:14 PM »
You have attempted to explain why you believe in your GOD and religion and not why you DON'T believe in other GODS or their RELIGION, which was essentially my question.  Also, I had a little trouble following your explanation, are you stating you felt a strong impulse to Surrender completely and just decided to practice blind faith and as a result of that choice more was revealed to you that acknowledged that the choice you made (to surrender) was the right one. 

Not a problem, I understand what you're asking and don't mind elaborating a bit more. 

In a nutshell, my reason for disbelief in the gods of other religions and faiths is that none of them have ever demonstrated their divinity or left any solid reasons with which to fully believe they exist (same reason most nonbelievers give).  Certainly one can engage in the act of belief of other gods, but it will  only be one-sided participation.  We have over a billion Muslims and a over a billion Hindus in this world and none of them have a personal relationship with Allah or Vishnu/Krishna/etc....from my perspective, that's truly blind faith.  Only Jesus Christ has lived, died and risen and demonstrated his divinity to others.  For me, the key to my belief in Jesus Christ comes down to two things: his resurrection and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers.  It's the tangible presence of the Holy Spirit that validates scripture.  Certainly there are others that have come to belief differently, but this is me we're talking about.  Others mock the idea of faith and initially faith is about taking a leap into the unknown, but that absolutely resolves when one truly seeks to know Christ.  That initial leap transforms into full assurance in the heart for believers.   All that Jesus Christ said about salvation and the Holy Spirit is correct and repeatable today.  He opened the gate that leads to him, but we have to be willing to walk through it first in order for a revelation in our lives to occur.   

As a child and young adult I was a believer in Christ, but I walked away from my faith....arrogance, thoughtlessness, pride, vanity, etc....were huge factors in that.  Later, when at my most hopeless and desperate, when I had exhausted all my own ability to help myself, I surrendered to God Almighty and his presence filled me and the room I was in the most powerful way I've ever known.....it fully changed me.  Do I belief I was lead to reestablish my faith?  Perhaps, but I can't say for certain.  I do know I wasn't living out my faith at all prior to that....I had wholly stepped away from it.....I lived for me and this world.  I surrendered to God when I had nothing left and man did he respond!  Again, I take no credit for the change, it's all about him.  For me, the most powerful proof of God came when I became part of that very proof that I sought.  I took a leap of a faith because I desired to know Jesus Christ and when the ruler of this universe reveals himself to you personally you don't anything else....at least I don't.  ;)

Hope that is helpful, but also note that my references to Islam or Hinduism is not meant to be disrespectful or combative in any way towards Muslims or Hindus.

monstermunch

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #142 on: April 10, 2013, 02:05:49 PM »
Are priests that fondle choir boys still going to heaven?

anabolichalo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #143 on: April 10, 2013, 02:16:13 PM »
Are priests that fondle choir boys still going to heaven?
yes but only if they repent and then redeem themselves with 5 our fathers and 12 hail maries

King Shizzo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #144 on: April 10, 2013, 03:17:27 PM »
yes but only if they repent and then redeem themselves with 5 our fathers and 12 hail maries
As crazy as it sounds, you are supposedly right. God forgives everyone who asks for it  :-\

anabolichalo

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #145 on: April 11, 2013, 11:59:19 AM »
As crazy as it sounds, you are supposedly right. God forgives everyone who asks for it  :-\
that's why religion is good for coping with guilt and self disgust

see prisoners

Man of Steel

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #146 on: April 11, 2013, 12:42:17 PM »
that's why religion is good for coping with guilt and self disgust

see prisoners
You're right, religion can be a good mechanism for coping with guilt and self disgust, but salvation by grace through faith in Jesus Christ will help you eliminate it altogether if you're humble enough to surrender to his will for your life.   The notion of religion has become a cliche....an inside joke if you will.  Knowing and trusting and living your life for Jesus Christ can stand outside that cliched notion of religion that so many detest.   I can't sufficiently prove that to anyone in this thread, but at the very least I can share it and tell others that he changed me.....never been happier!!

monstermunch

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #147 on: April 11, 2013, 12:48:19 PM »
Do you believe in Noah's Ark?

Man of Steel

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #148 on: April 11, 2013, 01:27:14 PM »
Do you believe in Noah's Ark?

Are you asking me if I believe that Noah built an ark?  If so, I do.

bigmc

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Re: going to church pisses me off
« Reply #149 on: April 11, 2013, 01:29:46 PM »
Are you asking me if I believe that Noah built an ark?  If so, I do.

do you believe he had a pair of every animal in the world
T