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Author Topic: Saudi Arabia deports 'irresistible' men deemed 'too handsome' to women  (Read 3197 times)
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« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2013, 09:13:58 AM »

the bible has been changed and played with. you yourself admit that.

Would you provide some examples?
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« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2013, 09:56:17 AM »

John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Matthew 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 20:27-29
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:9-14
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10:36
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 19:6-7
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”  But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

Mark 2:5-12
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves,
7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things?
9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?
10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,
11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

John 5:21-23
21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

John 8:58-59
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

the bible has been changed and played with. you yourself admit that.

No it has not been changed.  Care to prove this?  And no, it is a lie both that it has been changed and that I have admitted to it.  

Is spreading lies not a sin in Islam?
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« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2013, 12:49:16 PM »

Guys you have short memory spans and think others have short memory spans.

We already went over this yes the bible has been changed and yes the translations have been deliberately mistranslated to incur meanings which are not there to justify trinitarian beliefs even.

The story of the prostitute for instance is a later fabrication of what 400 700 years after Jesus? It's well known by bible scholars. Just one small example. Or the three in heaven also an addition in John.

The list goes on. You are just beating a dead horse and I don't know why you do it out of blind faith you are only doing yourself disservice in front of God by defending something false.
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« Reply #28 on: April 19, 2013, 12:50:01 PM »

Your silly religious beliefs; your asking what a wire transfer is; your proud declaration that you've learned html. I used to find you nigh intolerable, but the childlike naivete is starting to grow on me. Don't blow anything up or fund a loosely Al Qaeda-based Canadian cell and we'll be cool.

Not sure if you're drunk or were drunk. LMAO proud declaration I learned html? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man some guys on here are quite the clown characters. Just don't get too drunk and kill yourself in the process, drinking and narcotics are bad for you.
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« Reply #29 on: April 19, 2013, 03:34:24 PM »

Not sure if you're drunk or were drunk. LMAO proud declaration I learned html? HAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh man some guys on here are quite the clown characters. Just don't get too drunk and kill yourself in the process, drinking and narcotics are bad for you.

Not to sure why a muslim religious topic which has nothing to do with terrorism ends up with talks of killing people or alqaeda.

Cant we have a decent debate without discussing alqaeda or terrorism?
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« Reply #30 on: April 20, 2013, 03:15:59 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOJQXog9Ko" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOJQXog9Ko</a>

putting certian verses IN and taking other OUT = changing the book

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EggJBu0JW4g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EggJBu0JW4g</a>

forgeries....


NOW go find the same about the Quran, you can not.
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« Reply #31 on: April 20, 2013, 03:17:10 PM »

100s of other videos like this where so-called scholars take verses in and out. how is that the word of God when YOU!! a human being can play with the verses? lol...
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« Reply #32 on: April 20, 2013, 03:18:12 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbigbuvMLQs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbigbuvMLQs</a>

former-christian who saw the clear coruptions in the Bible and go out of Christianty.
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« Reply #33 on: April 20, 2013, 05:36:55 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbigbuvMLQs" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbigbuvMLQs</a>

former-christian who saw the clear coruptions in the Bible and go out of Christianty.

I've already read Dan Wallace's book that refutes Ehrman's book.  Also of note is Ehrman's book is dedicated to his former mentor Bruce Metzger who also completely disagreed with Ehrman.  Metzger's position is contained in one of Strobel's books that I've also read.  Ehrman is a leading textual critic, but stands on the fringe of the field.  He's easily matched by Wallace and overtaken by Metzger who both disagree and fully validate and justify their disagreement.
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« Reply #34 on: April 20, 2013, 05:52:50 PM »

what about your boy anis shorrosh who admits forgeries? lol...

why are there so many diffrent verisons of the bible then? lol...
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« Reply #35 on: April 20, 2013, 05:55:23 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOJQXog9Ko" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SOJQXog9Ko</a>

putting certian verses IN and taking other OUT = changing the book

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EggJBu0JW4g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EggJBu0JW4g</a>

forgeries....


NOW go find the same about the Quran, you can not.
http://quran.com/
Surah 4:34 - some translations say strike, some beat, some lightly beat, some scourge.....all different meaning.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.
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« Reply #36 on: April 20, 2013, 05:58:31 PM »

what about your boy anis shorrosh who admits forgeries? lol...

why are there so many diffrent verisons of the bible then? lol...
I don't know anis shorrosh....he isn't my boy.

Why all the mocking LOLs?  Are those necessary?  I'm not mocking you.  Don't worry though, I'm fully versed in the Muslim reponse style so carry on.

Have a nice evening! lol.....
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« Reply #37 on: April 20, 2013, 10:09:40 PM »

http://quran.com/
Surah 4:34 - some translations say strike, some beat, some lightly beat, some scourge.....all different meaning.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.


I find it funny that your going after english translations rather then the orignal text.

first off :

Sahih international is the most widely used translation. and that is only a TRANSLATION. Arabic to english. and since certain words in arabic dont exsist in english, the translations arent alwas 100% the same. the same goes for certian letters. For example the letter بfor eample: can be translated into B. but the letter  ق dosent exist in english, because it makes 'Qah' sound which comes from deep inside the throat, there are similar letters and sounds in hebrew and aramaic.

Second:

The orignal Quran is the same, and has been for 1400 years, untouched and pure. if you look at the diffrent translations they all mean the same thing. they verse is not changed(the original Arabic Quran) but the ENGLISH tranlations of it sound diffrent. every quran contians 66,666 verses in 114 chapters and 30 paras(sections).

the meaning of the 6 diffrent translations all mean the SAME THING, at the end the messge is the same its about how you word it.

1. the boxer punched is opponent causing him pain
2. the boxer stuck his opponent causing him to get hurt
3. the boxer hit his opponent causing him discomfort.


and come on, are you serious? beat lightly, beat, strike, scourge(which mean to inflict pain or punishment) all mean the same thing...

UNLIKE the Bible which has been changed in terms of verses taken OUT and other PUT in.

so the challange stil stands, can you find mutiple diffrent copies of the Quran? or a Quran with diffrent verses then the others? Nope, because they dont exist. Not even a single letter or punctuation mark has been moved or added. and remember this is for the ORIGINAL ARABIC QURAN, not english translations.

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« Reply #38 on: April 20, 2013, 10:42:45 PM »

I already had long debates with loco and MOS. I already pointed out the prostitute story which is well known by bible scholars to be a later fabrication and addition.

The three in heaven is also a later addition. Both elements added to reinforce trinitarianism and not original at all.

Then we can compare the narratives between John, Mark, Luke, etc... where their own narratives are incomplete or opposite or different to the 'same stories'. The list goes on.
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« Reply #39 on: April 21, 2013, 02:57:58 AM »

Islam did away with racism and these issues 1400 years ago. 7 years married now Smiley
Islam did not do away with racism---racism is rampant in Muslim countries, and if you have evert talked to Africans who have gone to Mecca for Hajj, they will tell you about how they were treated.

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« Reply #40 on: April 21, 2013, 10:09:18 AM »

Islam did not do away with racism---racism is rampant in Muslim countries, and if you have evert talked to Africans who have gone to Mecca for Hajj, they will tell you about how they were treated.



People may be racist and ignorant all over the world just as most of you on here are racists, but Islam advocates against racism.

And Malcom X proved you wrong over 50 years ago.

Quote
Hajj as a shift against racism:

El Hajj Malik El Shabazz (Malcolm X)'s letter

Many Muslims who have been blessed to make Hajj often speak of how the journey is a life-changing experience. This is more the case for some than others.

Malcolm X is one Muslim who saw the light of true Islam through his Hajj in April 1964. As a former member and speaker for the Nation of Islam, a black spiritual and nationalist movement, he believed that the white man was the devil and the black man superior.

After leaving the Nation of Islam in March 1964, he made Hajj, which helped change his perspective on whites and racism completely.

Here is an excerpt of a letter El Hajj Malik El Shabazz wrote about his Hajj experience. In it, he explains what it was during this blessed journey that made him so profoundly shift his perspective on race and racism:

"There were tens of thousands of pilgrims, from all over the world. They were of all colors, from blue-eyed blondes to black-skinned Africans. But we were all participating in the same ritual, displaying a spirit of unity and brotherhood that my experiences in America had led me to believe never could exist between the white and the non-white.

You may be shocked by these words coming from me. But on this pilgrimage, what I have seen, and experienced, has forced me to rearrange much of my thought patterns previously held, and to toss aside some of my previous conclusions. This was not too difficult for me. Despite my firm convictions, I have been always a man who tries to face facts, and to accept the reality of life as new experience and new knowledge unfolds it. I have always kept an open mind, which is necessary to the flexibility that must go hand in hand with every form of intelligent search for truth.

During the past eleven days here in the Muslim world, I have eaten from the same plate, drunk from the same glass and slept in the same bed (or on the same rug)-while praying to the same God with fellow Muslims, whose eyes were the bluest of the blue, whose hair was the blondest of blond, and whose skin was the whitest of white. And in the words and in the actions and in the deeds of the ‘white' Muslims, I felt the same sincerity that I felt among the black African Muslims of Nigeria, Sudan and Ghana.

We are truly all the same-brothers.

All praise is due to Allah, the Lord of the worlds."
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« Reply #41 on: April 21, 2013, 10:11:07 AM »

Muhammad (pbuh)'s last sermon:

Quote
“O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn ‘Abd’al Muttalib (Prophet’s uncle) shall henceforth be waived…

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah’s trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety (taqwa) and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people”.
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« Reply #42 on: April 21, 2013, 10:14:33 AM »

The qur'an on the subject:

"O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes [people with different cultures, races and religions], that ye may know each other. Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you.  And Allah has full knowledge and is well-acquainted.  (The Noble Quran, 49:13)"

Indeed it's a simple and eloquent example. Imagine if everyone looked alike, we couldn't recognize one another. Hence we are all different. However our skin color or places of origin etc... do not make us superior to one another, only piety makes us superior in the sight of God.
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« Reply #43 on: April 21, 2013, 10:35:01 AM »

I already had long debates with loco and MOS. I already pointed out the prostitute story which is well known by bible scholars to be a later fabrication and addition.

The three in heaven is also a later addition. Both elements added to reinforce trinitarianism and not original at all.

Then we can compare the narratives between John, Mark, Luke, etc... where their own narratives are incomplete or opposite or different to the 'same stories'. The list goes on.

I just thought y'all had some new material to offer since the material discussed previouly was either refuted and/or explained.  Since it was the same stuff again I just left it alone.
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« Reply #44 on: April 21, 2013, 10:43:29 AM »


I find it funny that your going after english translations rather then the orignal text.

first off :

Sahih international is the most widely used translation. and that is only a TRANSLATION. Arabic to english. and since certain words in arabic dont exsist in english, the translations arent alwas 100% the same. the same goes for certian letters. For example the letter بfor eample: can be translated into B. but the letter  ق dosent exist in english, because it makes 'Qah' sound which comes from deep inside the throat, there are similar letters and sounds in hebrew and aramaic.

Second:

The orignal Quran is the same, and has been for 1400 years, untouched and pure. if you look at the diffrent translations they all mean the same thing. they verse is not changed(the original Arabic Quran) but the ENGLISH tranlations of it sound diffrent. every quran contians 66,666 verses in 114 chapters and 30 paras(sections).

the meaning of the 6 diffrent translations all mean the SAME THING, at the end the messge is the same its about how you word it.

1. the boxer punched is opponent causing him pain
2. the boxer stuck his opponent causing him to get hurt
3. the boxer hit his opponent causing him discomfort.


and come on, are you serious? beat lightly, beat, strike, scourge(which mean to inflict pain or punishment) all mean the same thing...

UNLIKE the Bible which has been changed in terms of verses taken OUT and other PUT in.

so the challange stil stands, can you find mutiple diffrent copies of the Quran? or a Quran with diffrent verses then the others? Nope, because they dont exist. Not even a single letter or punctuation mark has been moved or added. and remember this is for the ORIGINAL ARABIC QURAN, not english translations.



The translations actually indicate different meanings and this was just one verse I read in the Quran and studied on my own.   "Scourge" and "lightly beat" or "light percussive tapping" as some Muslim aplogists suggest is quite different.

Regardless, I think we can both agree that this simple translation difference is merely a secondary or even tertiary bit of material that takes nothing from the core message or whole of the Quran, correct?
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« Reply #45 on: April 21, 2013, 12:07:42 PM »

Lol mos you're starting to sound desperate like loco, you're just fishing for needles in a haystack and not sticking to reality. The quran was not changed and you're indeed trying to blindly see what is not ther.e

The reality is the bible is changed the quran is not. And yes the bible translations are deliberately manipulated but the bible itself is tampered with in the originals and historians and bible scholars know this.
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« Reply #46 on: April 21, 2013, 03:12:58 PM »

Guys you have short memory spans and think others have short memory spans.

We already went over this yes the bible has been changed and yes the translations have been deliberately mistranslated to incur meanings which are not there to justify trinitarian beliefs even.

The story of the prostitute for instance is a later fabrication of what 400 700 years after Jesus? It's well known by bible scholars. Just one small example. Or the three in heaven also an addition in John.

The list goes on. You are just beating a dead horse and I don't know why you do it out of blind faith you are only doing yourself disservice in front of God by defending something false.

a_ahmed, which of the Bible verses below was added/changed, when and by whom?

John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Matthew 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 20:27-29
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:9-14
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10:36
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 19:6-7
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”  But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

Mark 2:5-12
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves,
7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things?
9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?
10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,
11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

John 5:21-23
21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

John 8:58-59
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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« Reply #47 on: April 21, 2013, 03:42:05 PM »

Lol mos you're starting to sound desperate like loco, you're just fishing for needles in a haystack and not sticking to reality. The quran was not changed and you're indeed trying to blindly see what is not ther.e

The reality is the bible is changed the quran is not. And yes the bible translations are deliberately manipulated but the bible itself is tampered with in the originals and historians and bible scholars know this.
I'm not exactly sure why you think I'm desperate, but ok.  I'm actually quite content in my faith. 

The matters of textual criticism are well known and have been long before I came along.  Some believers may experience some type of "sticker shock" when first being exposed, but for theologians and educators these concepts are well documented, fully evaluated, fully reasoned and completely explained. 

AR accussed men of "playing with verses of the bible" and implied there are no differences in Quranic translations and I simply gave him one that I discovered in my own reading of the Quran.  The passage on women interested me and I sought out further commentary, found the Noble Quran website, saw multiple translations which indicated different meanings and posted them for AR.

I also noted the following:

"Regardless, I think we can both agree that this simple translation difference is merely a secondary or even tertiary bit of material that takes nothing from the core message or whole of the Quran, correct?"

I'm honestly no longer concerned with cries of "forgeries" and what not from board Muslims.   Any explanations provided are simply dismissed, ignored or given the ole mocking "lol" treatment.  To continue further discussion with this type of audience becomes a highly pointless exercise so now I just say good day and God bless!

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« Reply #48 on: April 21, 2013, 08:11:37 PM »

lol loco the prostitute story is a fabrication/later addition thats whats 'fabricated'. The whole entire story.
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« Reply #49 on: April 22, 2013, 03:47:24 AM »

lol loco the prostitute story is a fabrication/later addition thats whats 'fabricated'. The whole entire story.

a_ahmed, which of the Bible verses below was fabricated/changed, when and by whom?

John 10:30-33
30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him
32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”
33 “We are not stoning you for any good work,” they replied, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

John 14:8-9
8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Matthew 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.

John 20:27-29
27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”
28 Thomas said to him, “My Lord and my God!”
29 Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was with God in the beginning.
3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

John 1:9-14
9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world.
10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

John 10:36
36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

John 5:18
For this reason they tried all the more to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

John 19:6-7
6 As soon as the chief priests and their officials saw him, they shouted, “Crucify! Crucify!”  But Pilate answered, “You take him and crucify him. As for me, I find no basis for a charge against him.”
7 The Jewish leaders insisted, “We have a law, and according to that law he must die, because he claimed to be the Son of God.”

Mark 2:5-12
5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.
6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves,
7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?
8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things?
9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’?
10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man,
11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.”
12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

Mark 2:28
So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

Luke 1:35
The angel answered, “The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.

John 5:21-23
21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son gives life to whom he is pleased to give it.
22 Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son,
23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

John 3:13
No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.

John 8:58-59
58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

John 8:24
I told you that you would die in your sins; if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
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