i talked to a few highly educated highly paid people i know and i feel discourag

[Psychopath]

It's not very easy to start a trade. You have to essentially be hired in your desired trade, and then get your employer to sign the government papers. Most jobs here in Toronto are low wage service and manufacturing.

The influx of immigrants each year is making it really fucking difficult to find employment and keep it.

I went from getting a BA in Arts thinking of entering the work force doing some clerical work, but that shit never happened, and i ended up working continental night shifts in manufacturing doing all kinds of back breaking shit surrounded by Philippino, Indian, and Jamaican immigrants who barely speak english.

Then i started thinking i need to try harder and utilize my skills. Having done various residential construction work in the past i.e. painting, paving, drywall finishing, minor electrical work, i started my own business.

I printed several thousand flyers, handed them out via mail, and door to door, and the response was minimal, with most customers inquiring without serious intention. Also, the level of competition is fucking high. Desperate immigrants would operate in crews, undercutting your prices (major cause of a steady decline in workmanship btw).

Working under someone in construction, you don't get paid much but your work goes towards fattening up the bosses pocket. Now they hire so called "helpers", get them to do most of the work, and then get a certified electrician, plumber etc.. to sign off on the work.

That way subcontractors make more money all the while using and abusing desperate immigrants left and right.

Immigrant abuse is the name of the game here in Toronto. That's why i'm thinking of going out west to Alberta or Saskatchewan where the oil is.

I don't want to be rich, i just want enough to pay the bills and have a little savings at the end. That's proving to be quite the challenge.

...if you have a wife and kids, then you're in for some deep shit. Thank Buddah i don't have those responsibilities.

[Ropo]

list some jobs that pay decent and dont require advanced education?

Whore, drug dealer, gay porn star..

[diesel24v]

I've heard stories that members have to wait around (unpaid) while the union works its way down the list when there are more guys than jobs.  Never been in a union so can't say if it's true.

I'm pro-union in theory but couldn't see sitting by the phone for very long waiting to hear from someone claiming to furter my interests while taking my money and telling me I'm not allowed to go put my skills to work without his say so.  Haha, ok 'boss.'

Most union men I've met look like they could just about climb a flight of stairs if they had to, provided someone else ties their shoelaces because no way can they reach all the way down there.  Never witnessed a union man holding a tool or discussing how to accomplish something productive.  Every conversation I've heard these guys have consists of how they're going to cause someone headaches.

Lol actually you're right in some aspects, I've been around alot of guys that show up for work and that's the most work they do all day, that's frustrating and annoying.  Like I said in my last post about being layed off, if you're the type of guy that gets along with people and shows up each day then the boss' see that and they like to keep you working.   There's plenty of fat lazy outta shape union guys that dnt do anything at work but then again there's alot of really smart hardworking guys too. BUT I will say this, When and IF you get into somethin like this, you'll probably start out in the range of $13-18/hr but that can go up pretty fast if you show that you wana be there

[diesel24v]

^^ I'm not sure how my reply was written inside the quote. I meant to just reply to what Tapeworm said

[Ropo]

Def. My father had his own plumbing business and we lived very well. I am in the field now myself and you can make a killing if you are in with the right contractors

And where is your father now? Six feet under? That's where that road leads you, before your time. Heavy work = shortened life span..

[Ropo]

^^ I'm not sure how my reply was written inside the quote. I meant to just reply to what Tapeworm said

That tells all about your education..

[diesel24v]

I deff agree with you Physcopath, the immigrants and illegals that come over and undercut are very annoying. I took several months off last year from the Union when I was trying to get a Maintenance job at a powerplant here and had to deal with alot of bullshit and then took a welding job at a factory for a few months before coming back to the union. I just pray that our economy doesn't get any worse but I don't wana get into that argument lol

[diesel24v]

That tells all about your education..

....yeah bc I don't spend much time on online forums hence why I don't have a ton of posts....I just read and learn on here really

[Borracho]

It's not very easy to start a trade. You have to essentially be hired in your desired trade, and then get your employer to sign the government papers. Most jobs here in Toronto are low wage service and manufacturing.

The influx of immigrants each year is making it really fucking difficult to find employment and keep it.

I went from getting a BA in Arts thinking of entering the work force doing some clerical work, but that shit never happened, and i ended up working continental night shifts in manufacturing doing all kinds of back breaking shit surrounded by Philippino, Indian, and Jamaican immigrants who barely speak english.

Then i started thinking i need to try harder and utilize my skills. Having done various residential construction work in the past i.e. painting, paving, drywall finishing, minor electrical work, i started my own business.

I printed several thousand flyers, handed them out via mail, and door to door, and the response was minimal, with most customers inquiring without serious intention. Also, the level of competition is fucking high. Desperate immigrants would operate in crews, undercutting your prices (major cause of a steady decline in workmanship btw).

Working under someone in construction, you don't get paid much but your work goes towards fattening up the bosses pocket. Now they hire so called "helpers", get them to do most of the work, and then get a certified electrician, plumber etc.. to sign off on the work.

That way subcontractors make more money all the while using and abusing desperate immigrants left and right.

Immigrant abuse is the name of the game here in Toronto. That's why i'm thinking of going out west to Alberta or Saskatchewan where the oil is.

I don't want to be rich, i just want enough to pay the bills and have a little savings at the end. That's proving to be quite the challenge.

...if you have a wife and kids, then you're in for some deep shit. Thank Buddah i don't have those responsibilities.

I wouldn't live anywhere in Canada but Toronto but I know how hard it's getting to make it in the city. If you go anywhere you should try Vancouver. The city is kinda lame and people out there are lazy so coming from Toronto/Ontario we have a reputation for being hard workers. You will have no problem getting hired and getting an apprenticeship out there if that's what you're after. There's a lot of reno work out there so you could even do your own thing but you may have to fight with some towel heads. But overall much less competition.

Good luck!

[Slik]

I'm always amazed that on a bb website where bb takes dedication persistance and goals that there is so much of a helpless attitude among many of u. There r thousands of self made millionaires without PhDs or doctorates. Get ahold of yourselves. Maybe for those of u that r so helpless get off the Internet and start making and reaching goals.

[Tapeworm]

It's not very easy to start a trade. You have to essentially be hired in your desired trade, and then get your employer to sign the government papers. Most jobs here in Toronto are low wage service and manufacturing.

The influx of immigrants each year is making it really fucking difficult to find employment and keep it.

I went from getting a BA in Arts thinking of entering the work force doing some clerical work, but that shit never happened, and i ended up working continental night shifts in manufacturing doing all kinds of back breaking shit surrounded by Philippino, Indian, and Jamaican immigrants who barely speak english.

Then i started thinking i need to try harder and utilize my skills. Having done various residential construction work in the past i.e. painting, paving, drywall finishing, minor electrical work, i started my own business.

I printed several thousand flyers, handed them out via mail, and door to door, and the response was minimal, with most customers inquiring without serious intention. Also, the level of competition is fucking high. Desperate immigrants would operate in crews, undercutting your prices (major cause of a steady decline in workmanship btw).

Working under someone in construction, you don't get paid much but your work goes towards fattening up the bosses pocket. Now they hire so called "helpers", get them to do most of the work, and then get a certified electrician, plumber etc.. to sign off on the work.

That way subcontractors make more money all the while using and abusing desperate immigrants left and right.

Immigrant abuse is the name of the game here in Toronto. That's why i'm thinking of going out west to Alberta or Saskatchewan where the oil is.

I don't want to be rich, i just want enough to pay the bills and have a little savings at the end. That's proving to be quite the challenge.

...if you have a wife and kids, then you're in for some deep shit. Thank Buddah i don't have those responsibilities.

I don't do much for homeowners unless they come to me by referral.  I never advertise because it seems, from what I've heard, that most of the return on advertising investment consists of tirekickers and reverse auctioneers.  I put it down to the fact that a HO is spending his own money, so he's going to break your ass on price and then bring out a magnifying glass.  Understandable. 

If I ever hit up the HO market I'd charge for the quote, payable on the spot, and with the understanding that the cost of the quote is deducted from the overall job price if they want to proceed.  Unless there's some disincentive for people to just waste your day then they will.  Client response to paying for a quote would also be a good way to vet those who are interested in good quality for real money, while those who pay for a quote grudgingly would be more likely to be sold on a leaner price that includes less bells and whistles.  If they balk entirely, you don't want to work for them anyway.

I've had good luck finding nice budgets in municipal/ government maintenance work.  Admin offices, schools, town halls, etc.  Just working clean, being presentable, and doing a good job (not amazing, just good) puts you ahead of most of the competition. 

Contracting to builders can be hit and miss.  Sorting through them to find good ones has been a long road.  I wouldn't recommend it if you've got other options.

[Tapeworm]

I deff agree with you Physcopath, the immigrants and illegals that come over and undercut are very annoying. I took several months off last year from the Union when I was trying to get a Maintenance job at a powerplant here and had to deal with alot of bullshit and then took a welding job at a factory for a few months before coming back to the union. I just pray that our economy doesn't get any worse but I don't wana get into that argument lol

Fabricators here make insane money if you're getting into metal working.  The employees probably not so much but the company.  Guess they have to in order to pay off the cost of their machinery.  Maybe it's just because there's so much mining work in my area but metalwork companies charge criminal amounts and ALL of them are booked solid.  A small operator able to carry out basic operations would be a welcome option, and he'd be a rich man charging 1/4 of these companies' rates.

[MCWAY]

I agree but it seems more and more that a college degree is now the high school diploma of the 50's and 60's. No one will hire you without it because the person interviewing you making 40K has their degree.

When my kids were in high school I would get mad when they would come home with college catalogs given by their guidance counselor for schools costing 40K a year. So many of these name Universities cost around 40K. I have 4 kids. I don't have 640K under a mattress in cash.

That's too much for college, and most of that is room and board. When I was in school (early/mid 90s), about two-thirds of my college cost was just that. For 16 hours' worth of classes, a semester ran about $2500. Roughly $900 was room; and, $700 was the 19-meal plan. Fortunately, I had a full-ride scholarship to cover it all.

But, I think the whole 4-year college thing is becoming financially obsolete.

Make them stay home and go to junior/community college and work a part-time job.

Then, they can go to a full university/college part-time.

Don't fall for the names. A lot of kids go to a college with a big name and pricetag as well.

This may come as a culture shock, but (if you live near one) consider sending them to an HBCU (that is, historycally black college/university). Those institutions are smaller and the tuition cheaper.

And, there's also the military option.

[Psychopath]

I wouldn't live anywhere in Canada but Toronto but I know how hard it's getting to make it in the city. If you go anywhere you should try Vancouver. The city is kinda lame and people out there are lazy so coming from Toronto/Ontario we have a reputation for being hard workers. You will have no problem getting hired and getting an apprenticeship out there if that's what you're after. There's a lot of reno work out there so you could even do your own thing but you may have to fight with some towel heads. But overall much less competition.

Good luck!

Why wouldn't you want to live anywhere else in canada besides toronto?

[TigerStripes]

Why wouldn't you want to live anywhere else in canada besides toronto?

Toronto is full of douches who want to live in a cosmopolitan city, and they think Toronto is more hip, more intelligent, and more classy then all the other Canadian cities.

It's basically like the LA of Canada. But it's not even that cool. For Canada its the best they have though.

[Borracho]

Why wouldn't you want to live anywhere else in canada besides toronto?

ummmm

Just has everything I like...variety of women, food, clubs, entertainment.

Not so much of a small town kind of guy.

Only other decent "big" city in Canada imo is Montreal but my french sucks. I know you can get by with just English but you really need to know both to better your chances at succeeding in Quebec.
 

[TigerStripes]

ummmm

Just has everything I like...variety of women, food, clubs, entertainment.

Not so much of a small town kind of guy.

Only other decent "big" city in Canada imo is Montreal but my french sucks. I know you can get by with just English but you really need to know both to better your chances at succeeding in Quebec.
 

Vancouver is awesome.

It's full of hippies and drugs, some people don't like that. But it's a world class city.

If I lived in Mexico north. I would live in Vancouver.

[Borracho]

Vancouver is awesome.

It's full of hippies and drugs, some people don't like that. But it's a world class city.

If I lived in Mexico north. I would live in Vancouver.

Vancouver looks nice but it has nothing going for itself. All the bums from Canada move out there since the weather is mild and you're harassed for change at every single corner it gets old quick. Rains all the damn time and people are too high to go out and be sociable. Just not a good experience living out there...I could go on and on...

[insanity_bb]

sales man. sales.  I don't know anyone who doesnt make 100k+ and that is entry levels. I made 150k when I was 23. I'm 24 now. I hate sales and I hate my job blah blah. Actually, it isn't so bad but I'm an introvert and the only thing pushing me to do sales is the $$$. But, if you can stomach it, there is LOTS of money in sales.

You just need a bachelors degree and a couple years of experience doing SOMETHING, like anything, remotely related to talking to people and selling a service. If you can sell yourself in an interview, you got it.

Field(outside sales) reps for top tech companies average 250-750k a year, with 150-300 base. This is with 3-10 years experience. Keep in mind this is for the most desired positions at the very best companies. Most sales reps are usually stuck around the 100k mark, and 150-200k for experienced field sales reps Not bad. when you are 30 or 35 or whatever, go take a VP of Sales job or just start doing your own thing, like investments, real estate, whatever.

I'm looking to transfer to a finance gig though. And that needs lots of analytical graduate school work.

[TigerStripes]

Vancouver looks nice but it has nothing going for itself. All the bums from Canada move out there since the weather is mild and you're harassed for change at every single corner it gets old quick. Rains all the damn time and people are too high to go out and be sociable. Just not a good experience living out there...I could go on and on...

That's the kind of place I like! Thats how the whole west coast of America is too. It's where you go if you just wanna relax and take it easy.

Better than being in the rat race.

[Borracho]

That's the kind of place I like! Thats how the whole west coast of America is too. It's where you go if you just wanna relax and take it easy.

Better than being in the rat race.

To each his own.

[BILL ANVIL]

I wouldn't live anywhere in Canada but Toronto but I know how hard it's getting to make it in the city. If you go anywhere you should try Vancouver. The city is kinda lame and people out there are lazy so coming from Toronto/Ontario we have a reputation for being hard workers. You will have no problem getting hired and getting an apprenticeship out there if that's what you're after. There's a lot of reno work out there so you could even do your own thing but you may have to fight with some towel heads. But overall much less competition.

Good luck!

wow you pick the biggest shit hole in the country, kool lol.

[Borracho]

wow you pick the biggest shit hole in the country, kool lol.

Been over this hate for Toronto by other Canadians numerous times before. Many people happy living in butt fuck no where but not me. It's a vibrant city...only Montreal is at the same level for nightlife, culture, etc.

[King Shizzo]

sales man. sales.  I don't know anyone who doesnt make 100k+ and that is entry levels. I made 150k when I was 23. I'm 24 now. I hate sales and I hate my job blah blah. Actually, it isn't so bad but I'm an introvert and the only thing pushing me to do sales is the $$$. But, if you can stomach it, there is LOTS of money in sales.

You just need a bachelors degree and a couple years of experience doing SOMETHING, like anything, remotely related to talking to people and selling a service. If you can sell yourself in an interview, you got it.

Field(outside sales) reps for top tech companies average 250-750k a year, with 150-300 base. This is with 3-10 years experience. Keep in mind this is for the most desired positions at the very best companies. Most sales reps are usually stuck around the 100k mark, and 150-200k for experienced field sales reps Not bad. when you are 30 or 35 or whatever, go take a VP of Sales job or just start doing your own thing, like investments, real estate, whatever.

I'm looking to transfer to a finance gig though. And that needs lots of analytical graduate school work.

Hi Gordon Gecko.

[YngiweRhoads]

sales man. sales.  I don't know anyone who doesnt make 100k+ and that is entry levels. I made 150k when I was 23. I'm 24 now. I hate sales and I hate my job blah blah. Actually, it isn't so bad but I'm an introvert and the only thing pushing me to do sales is the $$$. But, if you can stomach it, there is LOTS of money in sales.

You just need a bachelors degree and a couple years of experience doing SOMETHING, like anything, remotely related to talking to people and selling a service. If you can sell yourself in an interview, you got it.

Field(outside sales) reps for top tech companies average 250-750k a year, with 150-300 base. This is with 3-10 years experience. Keep in mind this is for the most desired positions at the very best companies. Most sales reps are usually stuck around the 100k mark, and 150-200k for experienced field sales reps Not bad. when you are 30 or 35 or whatever, go take a VP of Sales job or just start doing your own thing, like investments, real estate, whatever.

I'm looking to transfer to a finance gig though. And that needs lots of analytical graduate school work.

Our field rep pulls in more annually than our GM.