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Author Topic: So much for the theory that it was "Just That House"  (Read 2081 times)
Agnostic007
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« Reply #100 on: April 28, 2013, 04:16:06 AM »

Actually Agnostic sounds like a fairly reasonable cop to me.  He's been honest when I've asked him questions curious about shit. I don't think he's right about some of the stuff he says but that's just the nature of it all and why we make points back and forth on a board like this.

Appreciate that Hugo. I don't think any of us expect everyone to agree with us all the time. For me, even though I don't agree with everything everyone says here all the time, that doesn't mean I don't learn something from it. It's good to see things from different perspectives.   
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #101 on: April 28, 2013, 04:20:14 AM »

Hadn't you been aware of cash seizures like this, 007, where there was absolutely no indication of wrongdoing?

I've seen things on 20/20 about cases like this and it just makes me sick 
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #102 on: April 28, 2013, 04:25:55 AM »

#6

"Glad you brought it up. During SXSW an event that brings in thousands of people from around the country, officers were placed on 12 hr shifts  in various barricaded street locations on static posts. This officer violated policy by watching a DVD while on duty posted at a barricade. An unprofessional, stupid thing to do and he will likely be suspended for it when all is said and done. They pay us a lot, they expect a lot, and this officer did not meet the Departments expectations nor the public." 
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #103 on: April 28, 2013, 04:29:32 AM »

#7


In futile car search for drugs, Pompton Lakes police inflict $12K worth of damage (Asset Forfieture)
NJ.com ^ | December 29, 2011 | James Queally



When Pompton Lakes police seized Darren Richardson’s car on a rainy September afternoon, they told him it was headed for an impound lot. When they returned it three weeks later, he says, the 2004 BMW belonged in a junk yard.

The instrument cluster and leather dashboard were gone. The caramel-colored seats were torn up. The gear shift was ripped out and stray wires hung limp everywhere. Geico, Richardson’s insurance company estimated the damage at $12,636.42 — more than he paid for the car — and declared the vehicle a "total loss."

According to police reports, the damage to the black BMW 325i came in the aftermath of a traffic stop during which officers detected a "strong odor of raw marijuana" inside the vehicle. Searching for a cache of drugs, members of three different police agencies and a detective from a federal drug task force spent two days tearing the car apart, the reports said.

So what did police find after their $12,000 search?

Absolutely nothing.

Richardson, 28, of the Haskell section of Wanaque, filed a notice of claim against the department last week, seeking damages for false arrest and malicious prosecution. He also said Geico may sue the department to recoup the cost of the claim it has already paid to Richardson.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Good for him, hope he wins plus damages
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #104 on: April 28, 2013, 04:31:42 AM »

#8



That cop really is a sadistic bully. 

What these power craven union thugs in the pd don't grasp is that it is crap like this that will make those on the fence feel sympathy for some of these kids. 

Maybe the next time this thug cop writes some bogus ticket or makes a false arrest to boost his bloated OT and pension, maybe, just, maybe, for once someone will pepper spray this thug till he coughes up blood.







"It's been our experience in dealing with similar protests that pepper spray is not the answer. The better option is to explain that they have to move, explain what will happen if they don't then calmly and methodically remove each person one by one. Had they skipped the pepper spray, it would have ended the same"
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #105 on: April 28, 2013, 04:32:54 AM »

#9



This story is on all our news stations today.  Also included cigarettes and slot machines.   


"Yep. Glad they got caught. Apparently their internal affairs got wind of it and followed up. Good for them. I hate bad cops"













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Agnostic007
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« Reply #106 on: April 28, 2013, 04:36:55 AM »

#10


MIDDLESEX ——
Sheriff Guy L. Abbott was indicted Thursday on 25 felony criminal counts that include embezzlement and bribery following a nearly two-year investigation.

Abbott was arrested on the charges Thursday and processed at the Peninsula Regional Jail in James City County, said Brian Gottstein, spokesman for the Virginia Office of the Attorney General. Abbott was released on a personal recognizance bond.

A special grand jury that began meeting earlier this year in the basement of the Gloucester County Courthouse indicted Abbott on 18 counts of misuse or misappropriation of public assets, four counts of embezzlement and three counts of bribery. The crimes are alleged to have occurred from 2000 through 2008, Gottstein said.

Abbott declined to comment under advice of his attorney.

Abbott was elected to the office of Middlesex County Sheriff in 1999 and was sworn in on Jan. 1, 2000. He has continued in his capacity as Middlesex Sheriff throughout the investigation that's spanned nearly two years.

The Attorney General's Office authorized a criminal investigation of Abbott in November 2009 and his office was raided in March 2010. Affidavits filed in courts in York, James City and Chesapeake have sought Abbott's emails from a Gmail account, records of purchases with a credit card he used as sheriff and other documents.

Some search warrants and other documents related to the cased that have been filed in Middlesex Circuit Court remain sealed.

Affidavits filed in other courts by Jennifer S. Brown, special agent accountant for the Virginia State Police, list crimes related to the investigation as embezzlement, embezzlement by officers of public or other funds and other charges.

Abbott's first appearance in Middlesex County Circuit Court will be Sept. 7 at 9:30 a.m. Abbott has filed for re-election this year and is being challenged by three other candidates.


"Glad to see an example of the system working when a criminal in uniform is uncovered and indicted..."









"
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #107 on: April 28, 2013, 04:39:02 AM »

#11

You:

Unbelievable!

The guy had his liberty removed and got shot, yet it was totally justified?!

Where's Agnostic to tell us how it makes perfect sense?

Me:


"Got no problem with taking the liberty away  from a wife beater. Having said that, any subject in the back seat of the patrol car should have already been searched prior to putting him in. It's  SOP and if the officer still thought the subject was armed then he did not think he did a good search the first time. I have a problem with the officer who could have killed a person needlessly because of poor procedure.   
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #108 on: April 28, 2013, 04:40:20 AM »

#12

333:

ITS CALLED DISCRETION


Me:

or common sense..those cops had neither.. I'm embarrassed... 
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #109 on: April 28, 2013, 04:42:55 AM »

#13


Police in Ga. shut down girls' lemonade stand
AP News ^ | 07/15/2011 | AP News

Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 3:49:27 PM by The Magical Mischief Tour

MIDWAY, Ga. (AP) -- Police in Georgia have shut down a lemonade stand run by three girls trying to save up for a trip to a water park, saying they didn't have a business license or the required permits.

Midway Police Chief Kelly Morningstar says police also didn't know how the lemonade was made, who made it or what was in it.

The girls had been operating for one day when Morningstar and another officer cruised by.

The girls needed a business license, peddler's permit and food permit to operate, even on residential property. The permits cost $50 a day or $180 per year.


(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...



Well uh..the cops...uh...there is an ordinance..uh....the girls should have...uh......oh hell, what the fuck were the cops thinking??? 

Did their supervisor say that morning that news was slow, the spotlight isnt on the department, go out and do something to garner media attention. Even better if it's little girls.... I mean come on!!! Man these podunk cops make life hard for us!
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #110 on: April 28, 2013, 04:49:12 AM »

#14



Exactly Skip... It's complete crap.

From Youtube below.

Not exactly the perfect department he makes Austin out to be.

(Note... I'm not saying the guy below is guilty or innocent, just that the same shit happens everywhere)



Dec 8, 2007 - Gary Griffin can now return to the force after he won an appeal after losing his job as a police officer with the Austin TX police department due to excessive force. He had been an officer for 10 years previous. It is not known when he will be back on the streets.

A man was restrained and beaten by a Austin TX police officer last year and now officer Gary Griffin can return back to the force after losing his job. Griffin appealed the decision by acting chief Cathy Ellison of the Austin police department.

The chief made the decision to kick Griffin off of the force for six months after reviewing a police dash cam video that showed Griffin using excessive force.

It took a whole year but Griffin has finally won the appeal and he is returning back to work and that is not going over well with the family of Joseph Cruz. Cruz is the man in the video who was beaten.

Cruz was sleeping at a bus stop when Griffin tried to wake him up and that is when things got out of hand.

Before Griffin returns to the force he will have to see a psychiatrist.

The Austin City Council on Thursday approved a $55,000 settlement for the family of a mentally ill man who was beaten by an Austin police officer.

According to court documents, Griffin responded to a "person down" call in July 2006 and found Cruz, who has schizophrenia, asleep on a bus stop bench. When Cruz did not wake up, Griffin repeatedly hit him with his billy club and then punched Cruz in the face, breaking his nose, the documents said.




a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol

THis is the conversation where Skip said I lied. My above comment was going off of memory and was not accurate. Skip pointed out the video was actually brought to the attention of the department because the prosecutor had a problem with it. That is what happened. However the gest of it is that this officer was completely wrong in his actions and I concurred with his firing.  











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Agnostic007
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« Reply #111 on: April 28, 2013, 05:04:04 AM »

Not considered part of the bet but just an interesting post that kind of sums up my position;

 Cops should be held to a higher standard when it comes to honesty, integrity, work ethic, professionalism. Not that a vast majority of the public are not good people but ALL citizens who choose to wear the blue uniform should be those things without exception.


Me-

If a cop is shown to be lying, fire him or her, charge them with perjury if that is prosecutable. If a cop is shown to have used excessive force, fire them, charge them with whatever charges are appropriate to the incident. Where I think many of you part ways with me is in a more gray area. Often times, just by the nature of the job, cops are in precarious situations and have to deal with people where the outcome may not be all that pleasant for the citizen. Often times, cops are required to resolve situations and in doing so, outcomes aren't what was expected. Sometimes they screw up but they were doing their best in a bad situation, where there was often, given the set of circumstances, not much of a chance for success no matter how they handled it. In those situations, because I know how difficult it can be to make those decisions under pressure, without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight, I am more understanding.

But for everytime someone says "I'm not saying all cops are bad, just most are worthless scum" I've said "I'm not saying all cops are good, just most of them" And I've never shied away from calling a duck a duck when some cop steps on his whanker or screws the pooch.

So on those occassions, when they say wait a minute, I'm only human"... it's probably because they are       
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #112 on: April 28, 2013, 05:25:59 AM »

#15

"very unfortunate for both sides. time to play monday morning quarterback.

Did not one cop have a less lethal shotgun or taser available? With all the deadly force cover, that would have been a no brainer to me. Why not put a patrol vehicle or cover between you and the armed subject if you feel you are in danger? Why shoot so many damn times? We are trained to shoot to stop the threat. I'd say when he is falling over the threat is stopped.

My guess is not one of those cops went there hoping to get to shoot an armed mentally disturbed black man. But I'm not impressed at all with their response. At least here, this scenario is not at all uncommon. Been there done that at least a dozen times myself so it really concerns me that it "appears" their options were limited to drop the knife or we kill you.

It is very likely this will be ruled justifiable because he had a knife and though it wasn't clear to me, he was likely moving towards an officer. However, if the department doesn't address the tactical/training issues going forward, I'd be very surprised. I'd also be surprised if there wasn't violations of policy in this response which would be handled administratively when the smoke clears.     
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Skip8282
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« Reply #113 on: April 28, 2013, 06:03:12 AM »

I would think public safety would be of concern to you




Not when you needlessly override civil liberties (not you as in you specifically).

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Agnostic007
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« Reply #114 on: April 28, 2013, 06:04:19 AM »

Tu. I wasn't going to hold you to the bet because in spite of our differences in our opinions on  police stuff, I usually enjoy the banter but after reading one of your comments on another thread.. I guess we'll see you back here around May 28th.   Wink
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #115 on: April 28, 2013, 06:05:06 AM »




Not when you needlessly override civil liberties (not you as in you specifically).



Skip, agreed. Police shouldn't needlessly override civil liberties
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Skip8282
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« Reply #116 on: April 28, 2013, 06:19:13 AM »

Skip, agreed. Police shouldn't needlessly override civil liberties


Roll Eyes

When you can proffer a logical and reasonable need to support your claim let me know.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #117 on: April 28, 2013, 06:23:33 AM »


Roll Eyes

When you can proffer a logical and reasonable need to support your claim let me know.

No, I'm with you. Police shouldn't needlessly or unlawfully do that
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Skip8282
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« Reply #118 on: April 28, 2013, 08:19:53 AM »

No, I'm with you. Police shouldn't needlessly or unlawfully do that


No, you're doing your normal child's argument.  And to think you're a cop.  Roll Eyes

Let's try it this way...can you show a true reasonable need, not the hypothetical maybe scenario that you offered?
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #119 on: April 28, 2013, 08:23:23 AM »


No, you're doing your normal child's argument.  And to think you're a cop.  Roll Eyes

Let's try it this way...can you show a true reasonable need, not the hypothetical maybe scenario that you offered?

For those particular searches? No, I was not privvy to the information they may have had in order to come to that decision.
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #120 on: April 28, 2013, 08:31:36 AM »

#6

"Glad you brought it up. During SXSW an event that brings in thousands of people from around the country, officers were placed on 12 hr shifts  in various barricaded street locations on static posts. This officer violated policy by watching a DVD while on duty posted at a barricade. An unprofessional, stupid thing to do and he will likely be suspended for it when all is said and done. They pay us a lot, they expect a lot, and this officer did not meet the Departments expectations nor the public." 

Where do you say he is wrong here?

You say he didn't meet expectations? That's not saying he's wrong. Sidestep.

#8



That cop really is a sadistic bully. 

What these power craven union thugs in the pd don't grasp is that it is crap like this that will make those on the fence feel sympathy for some of these kids. 

Maybe the next time this thug cop writes some bogus ticket or makes a false arrest to boost his bloated OT and pension, maybe, just, maybe, for once someone will pepper spray this thug till he coughes up blood.







"It's been our experience in dealing with similar protests that pepper spray is not the answer. The better option is to explain that they have to move, explain what will happen if they don't then calmly and methodically remove each person one by one. Had they skipped the pepper spray, it would have ended the same"

A "better option" is not saying he's wrong.

Sidestep.
#13


Police in Ga. shut down girls' lemonade stand
AP News ^ | 07/15/2011 | AP News

Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 3:49:27 PM by The Magical Mischief Tour

MIDWAY, Ga. (AP) -- Police in Georgia have shut down a lemonade stand run by three girls trying to save up for a trip to a water park, saying they didn't have a business license or the required permits.

Midway Police Chief Kelly Morningstar says police also didn't know how the lemonade was made, who made it or what was in it.

The girls had been operating for one day when Morningstar and another officer cruised by.

The girls needed a business license, peddler's permit and food permit to operate, even on residential property. The permits cost $50 a day or $180 per year.


(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...



Well uh..the cops...uh...there is an ordinance..uh....the girls should have...uh......oh hell, what the fuck were the cops thinking??? 

Did their supervisor say that morning that news was slow, the spotlight isnt on the department, go out and do something to garner media attention. Even better if it's little girls.... I mean come on!!! Man these podunk cops make life hard for us!


What the fuck does this even mean?
#15

"very unfortunate for both sides. time to play monday morning quarterback.

Did not one cop have a less lethal shotgun or taser available? With all the deadly force cover, that would have been a no brainer to me. Why not put a patrol vehicle or cover between you and the armed subject if you feel you are in danger? Why shoot so many damn times? We are trained to shoot to stop the threat. I'd say when he is falling over the threat is stopped.

My guess is not one of those cops went there hoping to get to shoot an armed mentally disturbed black man. But I'm not impressed at all with their response. At least here, this scenario is not at all uncommon. Been there done that at least a dozen times myself so it really concerns me that it "appears" their options were limited to drop the knife or we kill you.

It is very likely this will be ruled justifiable because he had a knife and though it wasn't clear to me, he was likely moving towards an officer. However, if the department doesn't address the tactical/training issues going forward, I'd be very surprised. I'd also be surprised if there wasn't violations of policy in this response which would be handled administratively when the smoke clears.     

Another sidestep.

Now... I didn't agree to said bet.

I never said "You've got a bet", and we never made that "it's on statement". Pretty much sums up why this is here anyway, as I give straight forward answers and yours are full if mitigation and sidestepping having to have a real response.

However, as I said, I'm not responding to you again anyway after this anyway, so it doesn't matter.

That said. I will be happy to leave getbig for a month starting on May 1st.


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tu_holmes
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« Reply #121 on: April 28, 2013, 08:35:23 AM »

I'm leaving because I choose to leave (It's not like anyone can force me off of an internet board)

Not because of a bet, which I didn't lose by the way. (I said 10 statements)

As my statements showed. You sidestepped every response and out of all of your responses you had may 3-4 where you actually plainly said the cop was wrong.

Feel free to have the 3rd party person take a look. Skip seems quite impartial, what does he think?
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #122 on: April 28, 2013, 08:43:03 AM »

Eh... Fuck it. I'll go ahead and leave now.

PS. You still haven't won the bet and took you 2 days to find 14 statements which you even think are close to saying cops are wrong (which 60% were sidesteps and not real answers.

You are delusional and very out of touch with reality.

________________________ ________________________ _______
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Skip8282
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« Reply #123 on: April 28, 2013, 08:45:29 AM »

I don't think he's ever just given an unqualified, 'they were wrong', but maybe and I just don't know.

Is that what you all are arguing?
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #124 on: April 28, 2013, 08:54:48 AM »

I'm leaving because I choose to leave (It's not like anyone can force me off of an internet board)

Not because of a bet, which I didn't lose by the way. (I said 10 statements)

As my statements showed. You sidestepped every response and out of all of your responses you had may 3-4 where you actually plainly said the cop was wrong.

Feel free to have the 3rd party person take a look. Skip seems quite impartial, what does he think?

Your assessment of my responses are in error. To expect me to say the exact words "The officer is wrong" is ludicrous. When I say the officer violated policy and will  disciplined and Im fine with that it means to the average person that I think the officer was wrong.   
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