Author Topic: USA Debt  (Read 8524 times)

Teutonic Knight

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #25 on: May 14, 2013, 05:36:39 PM »
they might close all their restaurants

dogs and cats everywhere will breath a sigh of relief



Possums in Australian case  ;D

WalterWhite

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #26 on: May 14, 2013, 05:38:49 PM »
  Great post Walter



  You can NOT ride the tiger for EVER

Exactly and when you add the rise in welfare, boomers on social security/medicare, added medicaid rolls, over taxation on all brackets to pay for gov waste etc - the fall from the Tiger is going to leave more than a mark!  The Oligarchy in Washington on both sides of the aisle need to go.

calfzilla

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #27 on: May 14, 2013, 05:39:01 PM »
No it won't. It's not amnesty first off. In the long run it is like it but it's not amnesty by the definition.

Oh ok I guess the article I read on CNN was wrong, they been making up shit since Adonis exposed them during the Boston bombings.

Arce1988 that is a nice proverb.

Teutonic Knight

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2013, 05:42:48 PM »
They've been in the works to make their currency the world reserve currency, in addition, if they just announced they wanted their debts paid and were no longer investing in the U.S., the market would crash causing a world wide domino effect. they don't have to lift a finger to fuck us.

Several western countries now store theirs cash in Australia, probably Russian "businessman's" too.
US, should convert to the new currency (cowboy would be good name) & make $ worthless  ;D

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2013, 05:43:32 PM »
  Thanks to both of you    as you are two great posters


  walter and calf

Teutonic Knight

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2013, 05:45:29 PM »
stock market isnt representative of much.



they bullshit with numbers only, no real banknotes/gold coins there

Wiggs

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #31 on: May 14, 2013, 05:49:11 PM »
Oh ok I guess the article I read on CNN was wrong, they been making up shit since Adonis exposed them during the Boston bombings.

Arce1988 that is a nice proverb.

Amnesty is what Reagan did in the 80s as a part of his Immigration Reform Bill, meaning all that are here can stay, you just have to come forward. That was with 2.9 million "Messicans". Today it's over 11 million illegal Messicans, assuming the bill passes they'll get a chance to come forward and wait in line behind everyone else for a chance to become a citizen. The waiting period can be up to 10 years.  That's not even close to amnesty. Anyway, they aren't the problem fiscally. The Banks, then the government are the problems.
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WalterWhite

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #32 on: May 14, 2013, 05:55:38 PM »
  Thanks to both of you    as you are two great posters


  walter and calf

Thank you Arc. The gym is a passion along with the stock and debt markets.  What I see is the most vexing convergence of negative economic factors I have seen yet the irrational exuberance continues and the presses are working overtime! 

Wiggs

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #33 on: May 14, 2013, 05:57:49 PM »
Thank you Arc. The gym is a passion along with the stock and debt markets.  What I see is the most vexing convergence of negative economic factors I have seen yet the irrational exuberance continues and the presses are working overtime! 

Walter how would one hedge against this BS stock market and coming hyperinflation outside of gold/silver?
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Tedim

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #34 on: May 14, 2013, 05:58:51 PM »
Just imagine US debt payments at 5% interest rate.....bwahahahahaha

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #35 on: May 14, 2013, 06:03:47 PM »
  Exactly. I do not buy the QE bull shit. Shit is going to break at some point. It will not be a nice sight.

Tedim

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #36 on: May 14, 2013, 06:13:05 PM »
Walter how would one hedge against this BS stock market and coming hyperinflation outside of gold/silver?

Guns, ammo, farm equipment, motor vehicles, collectibles, heavy machinery....businesses, rental properties...anything that has durable value.

Preferably income producing.

Chadwick The Beta

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2013, 06:14:12 PM »
also karatbars  ::)
K

WalterWhite

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2013, 06:18:47 PM »
Walter how would one hedge against this BS stock market and coming hyperinflation outside of gold/silver?

The fed is so transparent a market exit can almost be timed based on fed minutes. I always ease out when I feel movement has become irrational and almost always miss the top.  My hedge is what everyone bailed on in 08 and that's open market municipal dumps which happen when credit markets are in question or the market is topping or crashing.  I picked up 6% yields out of those dumps and took my hits with all the re-ratings by S&P and Morningstar. They soared as rates dropped!

Conversely I would continue to put cash to work in them in an inflationary environment with rates rising. In a hyper environment I would hold more Tips, select dividend stocks, property, uranium and municipal ladder. Have some of this covered.

Sorry long winded

Tedim

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2013, 06:29:29 PM »
ofc there would be martial law, to prevent a civil war.

you dont know shit about hyperinflation, you think having gold would save you, of all people, how original.

i have family who lived through hyperinflation.my statement stands.

Guns, ammo, drugs...ability to impose ones will on others using violence.

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2013, 06:31:22 PM »
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/hyper.htm#YUGO


 Read about Yugoslavia. NO bull shit.

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2013, 06:32:35 PM »
The Worst Episode of Hyperinflation in History!

Yugoslavia 1993-1994
 

Under Tito Yugoslavia ran a budget deficit that was financed by printing money. This led to rates of inflation of 15 to 25 percent per year. After Tito the Communist Party pursued progressively more irrational economic policies. These irrational policies and the breakup of Yugoslavia (Yugoslavia now consists of only Serbia and Montenegro) led to heavier reliance upon printing or otherwise creating money to finance the operation of the government and the socialist economy. This created the worst hyperinflation in history up to this time.

By the early 1990s the government used up all of its own hard currency reserves and proceeded to loot the hard currency savings of private citizens. It did this by imposing more and more difficult restrictions on private citizens' access to their hard currency savings in government banks.

The government operated a network of stores at which goods were supposed to be available at artificially low prices. In practice these store seldom had anything to sell and goods were only available at free markets where the prices were far above the official prices that goods were supposed to sell at in government stores. In particular, all of the government gasoline stations eventually were closed and gasoline was available only from roadside dealers whose operation consisted of a parked car with a plastic can of gasoline sitting on the hood. The market price was the equivalent of $8 per gallon.

The combination of the shortage of gasoline and the government confiscation of German Deutsche mark deposits created a bizarre episode. A man after repeated attempts to get the government to let him withdraw his Deutsche mark deposits as Deutsche marks announced the was going to commit suicide in front of a government building by dousing himself with gasoline and igniting it. On the appointed day he showed up with a canister of gasoline. The media was there to film his protest. The police were also there and arrested the man. Afterwards the television station got numerous phone calls asking what had happened to the canister of gasoline.

Most car owners gave up driving, and tried to rely upon public transportation. But the Belgrade transit authority (GSP) did not have the funds necessary for keeping its fleet of 1,200 buses operating. Instead it ran fewer than 500 buses. These buses were overcrowded and the ticket collectors could not get aboard to collect fares. Thus GSP could not collect fares, even though it was desperately short of funds.

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2013, 06:33:33 PM »
Delivery trucks, ambulances, fire trucks, and garbage trucks were also short of fuel. The government announced that gasoline would not be sold to farmers for fall harvests and planting.

Despite the government desperate printing of money it still did not have the funds to keep the infrastructure in operation. Pot holes developed in the streets, elevators stopped functioning, and construction projects were closed down. The unemployment rate exceeded 30 percent.

The government tried to counter the inflation by imposing price controls. But when inflation continued the government price controls made the price producers were getting ridiculous low they stopped producing. In October of 1993 the bakers stopped making bread and Belgrade was without bread for a week. The slaughter houses refused to sell meat to the state stores and this meant meat became unavailable for many sectors of the population. Other stores closed down for inventory rather than sell their goods at the government mandated prices. When farmers refused to sell to the government at the artificially low prices the government dictated, government irrationally used hard currency to buy food from foreign sources rather than remove the price controls. The Ministry of Agriculture also risked creating a famine by selling farmers only 30 percent of the fuel they needed for planting and harvesting.

Later the government tried to curb inflation by requiring stores to file paper work every time they raised a price. This meant that many of the stores employees had to devote their time to filling out these government forms. Instead of curbing inflation this policy actually increased inflation because the stores tended increase prices by a bigger jump so that they would not have file forms for another price increase so soon.

In October of 1993 the monetary authorities created a new currency unit. One new dinar was worth one million of the old dinars. In effect, the government simply removed six zeroes from the paper money. This of course did not stop the inflation and between October 1, 1993 and January 24, 1995 prices increased by 5 quadrillion percent. This number is a 5 with 15 zeroes after it.

In November of 1993 the government postponed turning on the heat in the state apartment buildings in which most of the population lived. The residents reacted to this withholding of heat by using electrical space heaters which were inefficient and overloaded the electrical system. The government power company then had to order blackouts to conserve electricity.

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2013, 06:34:23 PM »
The social structure began to collapse. Thieves robbed hospitals and clinics of scarce pharmaceuticals and then sold them in front of the same places they robbed. The railway workers went on strike and closed down Yugoslavia's rail system.

In a large psychiatric hospital 87 patients died in November of 1994. The hospital had no heat, there was no food or medicine and the patients were wandering around naked.

The government set the level of pensions. The pensions were to be paid at the post office but the government did not give the post offices enough funds to pay these pensions. The pensioners lined up in long lines outside the post office. When the post office ran out of state funds to pay the pensions the employees would pay the next pensioner in line whatever money they received when someone came in to mail a letter or package. With inflation being what it was the value of the pension would decrease drastically if the pensioners went home and came back the next day. So they waited in line knowing that the value of their pension payment was decreasing with each minute they had to wait in line.

Many Yugoslavian businesses refused to take the Yugoslavian currency at all and the German Deutsche Mark effectively became the currency of Yugoslavia. But government organizations, government employees and pensioners still got paid in Yugoslavian dinars so there was still an active exchange in dinars. On November 12, 1993 the exchange rate was 1 DM = 1 million new dinars. By November 23 the exchange rate was 1 DM = 6.5 million new dinars and at the end of November it was 1 DM = 37 million new dinars. At the beginning of December the bus workers went on strike because their pay for two weeks was equivalent to only 4 DM when it cost a family of four 230 DM per month to live. By December 11th the exchange rate was 1 DM = 800 million and on December 15th it was 1 DM = 3.7 billion new dinars. The average daily rate of inflation was nearly 100 percent. When farmers selling in the free markets refused to sell food for Yugoslavian dinars the government closed down the free markets. On December 29 the exchange rate was 1 DM = 950 billion new dinars.

About this time there occurred a tragic incident. As usual pensioners were waiting in line. Someone passed by their line carrying bags of groceries from the free market. Two pensioners got so upset at their situation and the sight of someone else with groceries that they had heart attacks and died right there.

At the end of December the exchange rate was 1 DM = 3 trillion dinars and on January 4, 1994 it was 1 DM = 6 trillion dinars. On January 6th the government declared that the German Deutsche was an official currency of Yugoslavia. About this time the government announced a new new dinar which was equal to 1 billion of the old new dinars. This meant that the exchange rate was 1 DM = 6,000 new new dinars. By January 11 the exchange rate had reached a level of 1 DM = 80,000 new new dinars. On January 13th the rate was 1 DM = 700,000 new new dinars and six days later it was 1 DM = 10 million new new dinars.

Wiggs

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2013, 06:34:28 PM »
ofc there would be martial law, to prevent a civil war.

you dont know shit about hyperinflation, you think having gold would save you, of all people, how original.

i have family who lived through hyperinflation.my statement stands.

Yes, I don't know shit but everyone of my statements were correct. ::)
Move along or ease up on the drugs.
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arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #45 on: May 14, 2013, 06:35:06 PM »
The telephone bills for the government operated phone system were collected by the postmen. People postponed paying these bills as much as possible and inflation reduced their real value to next to nothing. One postman found that after trying to collect on 780 phone bills he got nothing so the next day he stayed home and paid all of the phone bills himself for the equivalent of a few American pennies.

Here is another illustration of the irrationality of the government's policies. James Lyon, a journalist, made twenty hours of international telephone calls from Belgrade in December of 1993. The bill for these calls was 1000 new new dinars and it arrived on January 11th. At the exchange rate for January 11th of 1 DM = 150,000 dinars it would have cost less than one German pfennig to pay the bill. But the bill was not due until January 17th and by that time the exchange rate reached 1 DM = 30 million dinars. Yet the free market value of those twenty hours of international telephone calls was about $5,000. So the government despite being strapped for hard currency gave James Lyon $5,000 worth of phone calls essentially for nothing.

It was against the law to refuse to accept personal checks. Some people wrote personal checks knowing that in the few days it took for the checks to clear inflation would wipe out as much as 90 percent of the cost of covering those checks.

On January 24, 1994 the government introduced the super dinar equal to 10 million of the new new dinars. The Yugoslav government's official position was that the hyperinflation occurred "because of the unjustly implemented sanctions against the Serbian people and state."

arce1988

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #46 on: May 14, 2013, 06:36:09 PM »
Soon after the inflation rate became extreme, the monetary authorities stopped putting the picture of known people on the bills, because those bills would soon become virtually worthless, and this was considered an affront to the person depicted. Instead, the monetary authorities began using generic figures such as that of the young girl shown on the above bill.




Source: James Lyon, "Yugoslavia's Hyperinflation, 1993-1994: A Social History," East European Politics and Societies vol. 10, no. 2 (Spring 1996), pp. 293-327.

Voice of Doom

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #47 on: May 14, 2013, 08:24:21 PM »
This is what happens when people stop seeking self sufficiency and become dependant on the state.  The state uses these crisis to increase power.

You cannot centrally manage an organism as complex as "the market".

Teutonic Knight

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #48 on: May 15, 2013, 01:42:06 AM »
Arce 1988, you become former Yugoslavia (Serbia/Montenegro) financial historian, regarding to Belgrade's own informations
they have + 4000 former Generals as pensioners  ::) ::) ::)


Teutonic Knight

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Re: USA Debt
« Reply #49 on: May 15, 2013, 01:45:43 AM »
exactly.they can do absolutely nothing.

china is an absolute 3rd world country shithole, a huge one, and infested with bad air and undrinkable water,lol.

if they lose the revenue from the usa consumers, theyd be in alot of shit.

china is and was on the way up, but theyre far from solidly established.

usa owns and runs the world, and i think that not even too bad, if one looks at the alternatives.

China has no ball to take over Taiwan, against mighty U.S. military power no any chances at all.