i got into the 'calorie is a calorie' debate with a nutritionist this weekend

[Conker]

your ignorance is so retarded its offensive.

eat 1500 cals of pizza cheeseburgers and apple pie a day. if your bmr is 2500cals you'll lose weight.

thanks for playing.

you may lose weight but will your body composition be the same if you diet on 2000cal apple pie/cheeseburger diet as it will if you diet on a 2000cal clean high protein diet?

[arce1988]

  Things you do not talk about


  Religion

  Politics

  Calories

[no one]

you're calling the woman a bitch, anyone who disagrees stupid, but this would have stayed a nice civil debate with her, right?
you have your mind decided on the subject, you obviously have an idea howmany  'nutritionists' think on the subject, so why bother bringing it up unless you are looking to stir shit?

you don't read so well do you biff? you quote the post that has the answer to your question then ask me the question. you and bam-bam go to the same English as a second language classes?

[King Shizzo]

  Things you do not talk about


  Religion

  Politics

  Calories

Lol! You see! People sleep on Arce, but he is an assassin.

[no one]

you may lose weight but will your body composition be the same if you diet on 2000cal apple pie/cheeseburger diet as it will if you diet on a 2000cal clean high protein diet?

yes. you'll lose fat on either.

[Rudee]

Although a calorie is a calorie, your hormonal response to different types of calories differs.   i.e.  what goes on internally in terms of hormonal response when you consume 1500 calories worth of doughnuts is completely different than what goes on when you consume 1500 calories of steak.   But I'm assuming you are already aware of that.

[doozejooze]

We talked about this on some other thread. A calorie is not a calorie. Can you lose weight on a caloric deficit? I hope you do! Do nutritionists (easy to get certificate) know about working out, lising or gaining weight? Most have no clue. Dietitians, like Cswol said are concerned about medical therapy or condition specific ratios. Eat healthy (I am speaking to a group not a specific individual) and you will feel better.

[Psychopath]

You don`t need any special Macros.  Worrying about Macros is just pointless.  You will get the correct ones by default if you just eat like a normal human being and monitor your calories.  No reason at all to "track Macros".

When i eat like a normal person, which i do anyway. I tend  to not consume much protein at all. Maybe 20-30g of protein a day if that.

I did that for a good year, granted i only trained 2-3x/wk, but didn't notice much of a difference in regard to recovery.

Now that i'm back on AAS, and training almost daily, i think tracking macro's, in specific protein, would be beneficial.

Although i think carbs are way more important than protein. I reckon 50g/day on average is more than enough.

[Bam-bam]

yes. you'll lose fat on either.

lol, funny how people still fall for troll attemps like these

[calfzilla]

Good going stud, she probably wanted sex from you now you ruined it.

[beakdoctor]

OK. This is pointless but I'll throw it in there anyway.

Bodyweight and body composition = 2 different things.

Some calories cause hormonal responses that affect body composition. Such as an insulin response. Spend some time with a diabetic and ask them if a calorie is a calorie. Seems fairly obvious. But yes, one can lose or maintane body weight by eating a restricted calorie diet of cheese burgers, candy bars or whatever.

It does not matter so much when you are on gear. Its easier to get away with a crap diet and subscribe to the "calorie is a calorie" theory while having positive effects on body composition.

[OTHstrong]

bro, everyone knows a calorie deficit wether from beer, pure grease or tomatoes will result in a deficit in weight but she is a nutritionist, which means she has no interest in advocating cheeseburger in a diet, her job is not only about losing weight, its also abut keeping stable  levels of this and that. lol, you set her up, clever but not so nice  

[OTHstrong]

To lose weight = a calorie is a calorie = true

To lose weight while maintaining the most amount of muscle possible, you can not think this way, you will end up skinny fat if you do. 

Also good points made here by the ones saying certain food stimulate certain hormones but also certain foods will drop the number of calories your body needs to maintain as well,

so it may start at 2500 but incorporating fats over time it will drop to 2000 calories by the time you hit 8% bodyfat and of course the lower you go the number will change and adjust so a calorie is a calorie is true for the most part but bodybuilders will not bring their best physique to the stage by taking this approach, in fact it would be a mess.


The people in the Holocaust were consuming less then 500 calories per day for extended periods of time so coming out of these camps they would be in a surplus of calories and would have gained weight eating 1000 calories a day because the calorie maintains for them was altered severely.

Just thing to consider.

[The True Adonis]

To lose weight = a calorie is a calorie = true

To lose weight while maintaining the most amount of muscle possible, you can not think this way, you will end up skinny fat if you do. 

Also good points made here by the ones saying certain food stimulate certain hormones but also certain foods will drop the number of calories your body needs to maintain as well,

so it may start at 2500 but incorporating fats over time it will drop to 2000 calories by the time you hit 8% bodyfat and of course the lower you go the number will change and adjust so a calorie is a calorie is true for the most part but bodybuilders will not bring their best physique to the stage by taking this approach, in fact it would be a mess.


The people in the Holocaust were consuming less then 500 calories per day for extended periods of time so coming out of these camps they would be in a surplus of calories and would have gained weight eating 1000 calories a day because the calorie maintains for them was altered severely.

Just thing to consider.

I like this part of your post.

One thing people never understand is that you can alter your caloric set points pretty easily if you stick with it and know how much you are eating day in and day out.  The object for us (including twink me at 176 lbs) is to push our calories high enough to where we don`t gain any weight and when we want to lose, we can do so utilizing a high caloric amount.

[CalvinH]

Should have gave her one of these  did a shot of Jack, ate a little extra dessert in front of her then shown her your abs.

[OTHstrong]

I like this part of your post.

One thing people never understand is that you can alter your caloric set points pretty easily if you stick with it and know how much you are eating day in and day out.  The object for us (including twink me at 176 lbs) is to push our calories high enough to where we don`t gain any weight and when we want to lose, we can do so utilizing a high caloric amount.

True, this is what I do 2-3 weeks before dieting, it works to start the diet on higher calories

[nolotil]

If you create a caloric deficit you will of course lose weight. But what you eat is important too ('health'/satiety/ability to stick to a diet etc etc). There is no reason to go into any kinds of extremes, whether it's trying to eat super 'clean' or trying to justify a calorie controlled extreme 'junk food' diet.

I use the words 'clean and 'junk food' although many times they are just a line in the sand. You always have to look at a persons whole diet when you talk in terms of healthy/unhealthy. You can't just pick out a specific food.

[The True Adonis]

True, this is what I do 2-3 weeks before dieting, it works to start the diet on higher calories

I think if you started earlier and did 3-6 months worth, it would be more beneficial than just 2-3 weeks.

[The True Adonis]

If you create a caloric deficit you will of course lose weight. But what you eat is important too ('health'/satiety/ability to stick to a diet if you are dieting etc etc). There is no reason to go into any kinds of extremes, whether it's trying to eat super 'clean' or trying to justify a calorie controlled extreme 'junk food' diet.

I use the words 'clean and 'junk food' although many times they are just a line in the sand. You always have to look at a persons whole diet when you talk in terms of healthy/unhealthy. You can't just pick out specific food.

Here is what I ate today-

Nestle Drumstick
Greek Yogurt Lime Chobani
2 servings Bran Flakes with 1 Cup Whole Milk

4 Corn Tacos with Chipotle Bean and Caramelized Corn with Avocado, Cilantro and Onion.
Double Dipped Chocolate Virginia Peanuts
Pineapple

Tuna Steak

And I am about to grind some Chuck to make two 4 ounce Burgers (1/4 lb) (smash style) with Cheese on  Kaiser rolls with Carolina sauce that I already have made up.


Good diet that will get you ripped.

[The True Adonis]

I am going to bake a cake in a few days- Probably a Pig Pickin` Cake with Orange and Pineapple and Heavy Cream.

or I may do a Humming Bird Cake or Red Velvet with Cream Cheese Frosting. I haven`t decided yet.

[nolotil]

I am going to bake a cake in a few days- Probably a Pig Pickin` Cake with Orange and Pineapple and Heavy Cream.

or I may do a Humming Bird Cake or Red Velvet with Cream Cheese Frosting. I haven`t decided yet.

Do you work as a chef? Own a restaurant? You should. You definately have a passion for food.

[The True Adonis]

Do you work as a chef? Own a restaurant? You should. You definately have a passion for food.

In High School and Summers in College I did work at Michelin rated restaurant, probably the best in the State.  I did prep work for the Pastry Chef and for the Head Chef. 

I would NEVER envision owning one though or working as a chef as it is by far, one of the most stressful jobs ever.  Its better to take those skills to the home and just please yourself, family and friends instead. 

[Bam-bam]

In High School and Summers in College I did work at Michelin rated restaurant, probably the best in the State.  I did prep work for the Pastry Chef and for the Head Chef. 

I would NEVER envision owning one though or working as a chef as it is by far, one of the most stressful jobs ever.  Its better to take those skills to the home and just please yourself, family and friends instead. 

do you work nowadays?

[Ron]

From Courtney Prather ... "Actually, not all calories are created equal. What they are made of causes a very different physiological reaction in your body once consumed, and the hormonal response to certain foods can lead to weight gain or loss. "

[no one]

From Courtney Prather ... "Actually, not all calories are created equal. What they are made of causes a very different physiological reaction in your body once consumed, and the hormonal response to certain foods can lead to weight gain or loss. "

galeniko and i have discovered that protein is used not as a unit of fuel in an extreme deficit but goes solely towards the repair and regeneration of lean tissue exhausted under stress ie training.

amazing how the body can recognise that nutrient for that purpose and spare it even when its 'supposed' (conventional wisdom anyone?  ) to be used the same as any other calorie- as fuel.

therefor in my own opinion based on my experiences, a calorie simply is not just a calorie when it comes to proteins and an extreme cal deficit. maybe fats and carbs are. but crazy as it seems very low cal diets seems to be effectively protein sparing.