What do you THINK really happened that night with Zimmerman & Trayvon?

[tonymctones]

yes, agreed `1000%.

As long as we can agree that there is zero proof either man threw the first punch, all good.

You do understand that until Zimmerman is proven wrong that is the implied series of events?

[240 is Back]

You do understand that until Zimmerman is proven wrong that is the implied series of events?

He has been proven wrong on a few things already, Tony.  Did you know of the (at least) 4 lies he has been caught in already?

I just want to establish you agree he has said a few things which, in the first 2 days of testimony, we have learned not to be true based upon physical evidence.

[Soul Crusher]

Prosecution witnesses back Zimmerman (Jack Cashill)
WND ^  | 6/26/2013 | Jack Cashill

Posted on Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:30:07 AM by RoosterRedux

Defense attorney Mark O’Mara has been consistently strong in cross-examination. O’Mara asked Noffke whether his two questions to Zimmerman about the path Martin was taking might have inspired him to leave his truck and maintain visual contact.

Noffke answered, “I understand how someone could have misinterpreted the intent of that.”

Through O’Mara’s questioning, Noffke also undermined the state’s implication that Zimmerman was enraged and keen on vengeance.

If anything, state witness Wendy Dorival, an African-American who served as volunteer program coordinator for the Sanford police department when Zimmerman’s community was organizing its neighborhood watch, proved even more helpful to Zimmerman’s cause.

On cross-examination by defense attorney Don West, Dorival spoke repeatedly of the many burglaries in the community.

She told specifically of how she had met with a female neighbor of Zimmerman’s who had endured a home invasion and was “still shaken up by it.”


(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...

[dario73]

The judge allowed 5 of the calls that he made to the police department MONTHS before the encounter.

[240 is Back]

this jayne teacher isn't helping the prosecution at all.   her 911 call was painful to listen to.  "Why did he have to kill him?"  "The poor boy was screaming for help".

the defense is MUCH better with the bald 30+ year defense veteran lawyer doing the talking.  That Mark OMara guy seemed to be out of it and lost, in my opinion.  THis other lawyer is on his game! 

[GigantorX]

I KNOW if Zimmerman stayed in his truck as he was told to do that its
99.999999% likely that Martin would not have been shot that night by Zimmerman

Ok, I agree with this.

But the jury may, instead, see it as a question of why Zimmerman shot Martin. Yes he got out of his truck, he followed Zimmerman and all that (if that's the truth of what happened) then they got into an altercation, Martin was on top................AND then what? If the jury finds that after all the events leading up to the altercation, (whatever they may be) Zimmerman found his life in danger, thus he defended himself, Zimmerman could get off.

[240 is Back]

Ok, I agree with this.

But the jury may, instead, see it as a question of why Zimmerman shot Martin. Yes he got out of his truck, he followed Zimmerman and all that (if that's the truth of what happened) then they got into an altercation, Martin was on top................AND then what? If the jury finds that after all the events leading up to the altercation, (whatever they may be) Zimmerman found his life in danger, thus he defended himself, Zimmerman could get off.

it sets a dangerous precedent.

I mean, I can load up twin glocks, walk up and down the street in the shittiest part of town, and insult people's dead grandmothers until one of them punches me in the nose.

then I can fall down and shoot them in the head 11 times.

Then I can shrug and smirk and say "Hey, i feared for my life!", shake my ass and go home.  Sleep well, then do it again the next night.

I'm not sure one can CREATE a dangerous situation then use deadly force for self defense?

[Roger Bacon]

it sets a dangerous precedent.

I mean, I can load up twin glocks, walk up and down the street in the shittiest part of town, and insult people's dead grandmothers until one of them punches me in the nose.

then I can fall down and shoot them in the head 11 times.

Then I can shrug and smirk and say "Hey, i feared for my life!", shake my ass and go home.  Sleep well, then do it again the next night.

I'm not sure one can CREATE a dangerous situation then use deadly force for self defense?

That would be completely irresponsible and dumb....

You cannot assault people though, bottom line.  If assaulted you should have the right to defend yourself.

[240 is Back]

That would be completely irresponsible and dumb....

You cannot assault people though, bottom line.  If assaulted you should have the right to defend yourself.

okay.  then what if I SCARE YOU so bad that you put up your fists in self defense?

Like, if I chase you two blocks through the rainy night with a gun in my waistband, then when you run away, I cut through the yards to intercept you.  I catch you and come within your personal space (inside 5 feet).

I'm guessing you'd feel DAMN scared, particularly if I had my hand on the butt of my gun.  And you might just punch me to try to end what you feel is a pretty big threat at that point.  I'll be honest - if a dude chases me TWO BLOCKS and he's 30 pounds bigger and he's coming at me fast with hand on butt of gun - I fear for my life like crazy.  And I'd defend myself.  Trayvon used a fist (if he did actually swing first, we have zero evidence of this).  Trayvon probably could have shot zimmerman dead, and he probably would have beat the rap - I mean - he was scared of fat man with gun.  tWO BLOCKS is a LONG way to chase a kid.

[Roger Bacon]

okay.  then what if I SCARE YOU so bad that you put up your fists in self defense?

Like, if I chase you two blocks through the rainy night with a gun in my waistband, then when you run away, I cut through the yards to intercept you.  I catch you and come within your personal space (inside 5 feet).

I'm guessing you'd feel DAMN scared, particularly if I had my hand on the butt of my gun.  And you might just punch me to try to end what you feel is a pretty big threat at that point.  I'll be honest - if a dude chases me TWO BLOCKS and he's 30 pounds bigger and he's coming at me fast with hand on butt of gun - I fear for my life like crazy.  And I'd defend myself.  Trayvon used a fist (if he did actually swing first, we have zero evidence of this).  Trayvon probably could have shot zimmerman dead, and he probably would have beat the rap - I mean - he was scared of fat man with gun.  tWO BLOCKS is a LONG way to chase a kid.

That wouldn't have happened I wouldn't look suspicious cutting through peoples yards at night to begin with, I would have answered when questioned and walked on.  If I did happen to ignore you, I would continue on my path home (down the sidewalk) and I definitely wouldn't attack you.  You would do the same thing.

[Archer77]

My opinion is that Zimmerman wanted to be a hero.  From reports I've read there had been a series of robberies in the area by black men and I believe the robberies were on Zimmermans mind. Zimmerman saw a black guy and pursued him to see what he was up to.

Martin was walking around not doing much of anything. He probably noticed Zimmerman and at first tried to ignore him. After a short pursuit, Martin turned to confront Zimmerman about why he was pursuing him.  At this point Martin was not aware zimmerman had a gun. Words were exchanged and a scuffle broke out. During the scuffle and in the heat of the moment Zimmerman pulled his gun and shot Martin.

Zimmerman not having ever shot anyone panicked and this is why his story has holes.  He was trying to bend the story enough to give him maximum justification.  He should have just told the truth.  I don't believe Zimmerman intended to murder anyone that night.  


Questions to be answered. (Add to it)

What was the distance the bullet was fired from?

[240 is Back]

That wouldn't have happened I wouldn't look suspicious cutting through peoples yards at night to begin with, I would have answered when questioned and walked on.  If I did happen to ignore you, I would continue on my path home (down the sidewalk) and I definitely wouldn't attack you.  You would do the same thing.

for real?   if I cut through yards just to cut you off - come at you at 90 mph (well, as fast as zimm could sprint)- in the rain, after chasing you two blocks?  You're not the least bit "on guard"?

Man, that's how people get seriously hurt, robbed, stabbed, killed, etc - If someone is coming at me that fast and they're not yelling "Police!", I'm very safe to assume they aren't there to ask me about the weather.

Maybe I'm just paranoid - would other getbiggers just calmly answer zimmerman's questions?  Or would you be VERY MUCH on guard that the angry person using profanity and chasing you (and cutting thru yards to catch you) might be up to something?

[240 is Back]

Zimmerman not having ever shot anyone panicked and this is why his story has holes.  He was trying to bend the story enough to give him maximum justification.  He should have just told the truth.  I don't believe Zimmerman intended to murder anyone that night.  

AGREED  100%   - -  he has been caught in 4 lies now about the shooting based upon physical evidence - so far that we've been shown. 

What was the distance the bullet was fired from?

contact shot - burns show the gun was pressed against trayvon's chest when it was fired.  burns on skin and clothing.  it was touching him.

Annnnnd... the witness just told the jury zimmerman was ON TOP when the shot was fired.  

this backs MY belief that the MMA trained zimmerman did manage to hold down trayvon, and just wanted to interrogate him, used the gun to try to scare him, and when trayvon kept squirming or maybe went for it - zimm shot him.   I dont know which man was screaming for help.  witnesses are saying trayvon (the boy) was screaming while the man was on top of him.  Not looking good for zimmerman.  IF he was on top, and IF trayvon was yelling, it's over for him.

[Roger Bacon]

for real?   if I cut through yards just to cut you off - come at you at 90 mph (well, as fast as zimm could sprint)- in the rain, after chasing you two blocks?  You're not the least bit "on guard"?

You're completely right, but you're just dreaming up this scenario.

The police didn't arrest him at the scene because it was so clear cut.  The only reason he's being prosecuted at all is because of pressure from the misguided black community.

 

[Archer77]

AGREED  100%   - -  he has been caught in 4 lies now about the shooting based upon physical evidence - so far that we've been shown. 


contact shot - burns show the gun was pressed against trayvon's chest when it was fired.  burns on skin and clothing.  it was touching him.

Annnnnd... the witness just told the jury zimmerman was ON TOP when the shot was fired.  

this backs MY belief that the MMA trained zimmerman did manage to hold down trayvon, and just wanted to interrogate him, used the gun to try to scare him, and when trayvon kept squirming or maybe went for it - zimm shot him.   I dont know which man was screaming for help.  witnesses are saying trayvon (the boy) was screaming while the man was on top of him.  Not looking good for zimmerman.  IF he was on top, and IF trayvon was yelling, it's over for him.

Who are these witnesses?  How far away were they?  Did any of them bother to call 911?  Why would Zimmerman be screaming if he didnt feel in danger?  What was he screaming?

[tonymctones]

Trayvon was obviously angry that night calling zimmerman a cracker just before assaulting him

[tonymctones]

gonna be interesting with jabba back on the stand tomorrow.

[240 is Back]

Who are these witnesses?  How far away were they?  Did any of them bother to call 911?  Why would Zimmerman be screaming if he didnt feel in danger?  What was he screaming?

Watch the trial from today.  One was a teacher named Jayne.  Other was an Asian married woman in her 30s.  Both were 10 to 20 feet from trayvon's dead body.  Both described the screams from a young boy.  one saw the bigger adult on top, the skinny kid on bottom.  I watched the trial for a few hours today.

Yes, they both called 911.  Yes, they both did extensive interviews with police afterwards.  I feel like explaining it would be silly... watch headling news for the highlights or read about it.  I don't put much cred in the GF from the phone, but the other 2 were well-to-do people who lived there.

And the police didn't arrest trayvon because they waited to see what the evidence showed - autopsy, etc..  And, well, his judge dad and prosecutor, well...

The LEAD DETECTIVE who interviewed Zimmerman that night WANTED TO CHARGE HIM WITH MURDER.   The prosecutor had their own reasons for not pursuing it lol...

[240 is Back]

gonna be interesting with jabba back on the stand tomorrow.

they'll wreck her.  she's angry and ignorant.  i believe trayvon said a creepy cracker is following him.  BUT she's a mess of a witness and I'd bounce her.

[tonymctones]

yes he did, obviously the comment of an angry person.

at lease we finally have proof of racial profiling in this case now though...to bad it was trayvon profiling zimmerdousche

[240 is Back]

yes he did, obviously the comment of an angry person.

at lease we finally have proof of racial profiling in this case now though...to bad it was trayvon profiling zimmerdousche

they were both profiling.  Zimmerman accused him of being a bike thief.

Only one of them admitted to chasing the other, and said the other was trying to run away.

[tonymctones]

they were both profiling.  Zimmerman accused him of being a bike thief.

Only one of them admitted to chasing the other, and said the other was trying to run away.

LOL you just dont quit, and I said racial profiling....

[240 is Back]

LOL you just dont quit, and I said racial profiling....

Oh I see.   Did zimmerman ever mention RACE when it came to the bike thieves or trespassers?  I'm pretty sure he used black and african-american many times.  Many times.

They were both ignorant pieces of shit that let race, prejudice, and stereotpes and profiling lead them to a very bad path.  But only one of them admitted he was chasing the other one down that path...

[tonymctones]

Oh I see.   Did zimmerman ever mention RACE when it came to the bike thieves or trespassers?  I'm pretty sure he used black and african-american many times.  Many times.

They were both ignorant pieces of shit that let race, prejudice, and stereotpes and profiling lead them to a very bad path.  But only one of them admitted he was chasing the other one down that path...

did he ever use race the night of the incident?

[240 is Back]

did he ever use race the night of the incident?

as the 911 tapes show, he profiled trayvon as a bike thief/tresspasser that he had referenced in earlier 911 calls in which he certainly used race.

Defense fought to keep out the tapes as they knew it showed EXACTLY that.  The jury learns Zimmerman thought trayvon was a bike thief - this gives him motive. 

He used race that night too, describing trayvon with skin color.  The same way he did with bike thief, tresspassers, etc.

tony, there's no point in arguing here - it's already on court records.  We already know on the night of shooting, HE referenced people HE had described with race in earlier calls.  I think there are way cooler things to debate.  THis is kinda dumb.