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Author Topic: New Yorkers Health Insurance Drop by 50%  (Read 4410 times)
Marty Champions
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« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2013, 01:37:40 PM »


Obama spent $850 billion as soon as he walked into the Oval Office with his first stimulus plan.  

Remember, the one with shovel ready jobs, except that they weren't so "shovel ready?"


damn obama shouldve just spent the 850 billion by giving  every cancer patient 1 million dollars
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« Reply #76 on: September 25, 2013, 01:39:38 PM »

Doesn't matter. Obama promised it would DROP by $2500 per family. Liberal math 2 + 2 = 800,000,000,000,000,000,000.
It will drop if you choose the plans that will be offered and you meet the income requirements.  Obama can`t control what your Private Health Insurance company will do in the long run.  They will fuck you if they get the chance.
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« Reply #77 on: September 25, 2013, 01:44:55 PM »



chemo has a negative success rate.

Total bullshit.
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Archer77
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« Reply #78 on: September 25, 2013, 01:46:02 PM »

It's all bullshit.  Obama has no idea how or whether this will work.

The govt. expects that somehow business will figure this out.

Just remember, when you need  a hip replacment, you'll call 1-800-529-1040 rather than your doctor.


No one knows the impact this going to have.  Much of what we are reading, good and bad, is purely speculative at this point.  I can't help but feel that this is going to cost a lot of money in subsidies
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« Reply #79 on: September 25, 2013, 01:50:53 PM »

Mine and my wife's went down  Grin
we have seperate due to different jobs and will be saving $200
a month.. we have blue cross / blue shield...
Will save $2,400.00 a year   Wink
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Marty Champions
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« Reply #80 on: September 25, 2013, 03:57:12 PM »

Total bullshit.
Roll Eyes
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« Reply #81 on: September 25, 2013, 05:51:09 PM »

the problem with the debate as its framed is in focusing solely on the monthly cost.  Your monthly cost may go up or down but what's the coverage?  How does it compare to your current policy on deductible, copay, specialists, and out of pocket maximums?  Those are the real costs that all these folks who are uninsured will be dealing with.   Uninsured people ARE high risk.  They will sign up day one and on day two they will be in the office getting all the treatment they cant currently get.
I'm actually PMing the PPACA 'go live' for an insurance company in the Midwest.  I see the guts of the programand its a sham against you by the collusion of big gov and big business.

The HC companies are fully aware of their increased risk in taking on these uninsured and a measly $50/month payment isn't what they're after.  Well they are for the young people.  The framing of the debate strictly in cost of monthly premiums is to sell to the young and healthy.  If it looks cheap they'll buy it and most likely won't draw against the total monies allotted each year for payouts by HC companies.

Another thing not publicly known is that all these participating HC companies will be added to a special 'risk pool'.  This pool will be overseen by a government agency called CMS whose job is to "even out" the risk so one HC company doesn't get stuck with all the "terminal 4 cancer" enrollments.  .Gov will look at their risk pool and then cost share from the profits of other HC companies to even out the losses.  That means two things.
1.  There is absolutely a .Gov database where your PHI will be sent.  I've helped build the software that tosses this file to their servers.  To be included in the risk sharing pool the gov employees (IRS for now) have to verify illnesses and treatments.  That means they look through your PHI and compare it against your income to determine your subsidy payment.
2. This government agency will determine for these companies how much "profit" they can make each year.  If it's over their "threshold" those profits will be re-distributed to the competition...to even it all out.

Think about those two things...do we really want government to determine how much profit a business can make?  Eh, comrades?  And are you really 'ok' with your PHI being perused by a gov bureaucrat and scaled according to their 'risk' numbers.  Recent gov scandals have shown that they cant be trusted with authority.  Don't think for a minute your PHI couldn't be accessed if you were determined to be a threat.  Maybe a "leak" that you were treated for an STD when you were 21 is enough to damage a campaign, or prevent future employment, or treatment if you fall outside the 'risk scale'.  



Seems like a slippery slope to somewhere America wasn't founded on.
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Gonuclear
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« Reply #82 on: September 25, 2013, 06:01:35 PM »

Roll Eyes

Roll your eyes all you want.  Cancer is not a joke. And you don't know shit about it.

The fact is that many childhood leukemias are now cured by chemotherapy.  And millions (yes, millions) of people live longer, sometimes much longer, due to chemotherapy. 

Why don't you go back to posting about eating "shitloads" of peanut butter.  You appear to have first hand experience about that.
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Primemuscle
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« Reply #83 on: September 25, 2013, 11:39:46 PM »

A lot of ignorance going on in the posts in this tread. Clueless posts about medical insurance and the affordable health care act.
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« Reply #84 on: September 26, 2013, 06:06:58 AM »

Prime you're a super liberal just judging by your posts and where you live.

 All this nonsense about health cost drastically going down is about people living near poverty. If you and your wife make 30K total you probably don't have any insurance because you can't afford it. With Obama care you will benefit if you want to buy because the cost of buying goes down drastically. They are using this stat as the headlines in the liberal rag papers as happy days are here again, massive savings. Just remember nation wide that the massive tax breaks being handed out to subsidize payment of the policy is going to cost an insane amount of money this country doesn't have.  

Just remember with that nearly one billion dollars Obama is using to "educate" the public will be used for propaganda promoting it. Soon you won't be able to find in any computer search on the first 3 pages anything but glowing accounts of how great it is. Again, can't wait for the tv commercials, internet, and newspaper ads.
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« Reply #85 on: September 26, 2013, 12:17:30 PM »

Most insurance premiums have risen in preparation for Obamacare, that is a fact.
If you make more than 45K, you'll get no subsidies and likely pay more for healthcare while free medicaid coverage is expanded 133%.
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« Reply #86 on: September 26, 2013, 12:18:44 PM »

My premium increased by $50/month this year and the letter from my insurance company specifically referrenced more costs to them as a reason the rate increased (medical mutual).
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« Reply #87 on: September 26, 2013, 01:21:37 PM »

Most insurance premiums have risen in preparation for Obamacare, that is a fact.
If you make more than 45K, you'll get no subsidies and likely pay more for healthcare while free medicaid coverage is expanded 133%.

Yes it favors the less fortunate, fuck um right?

Betcha they don't work hard.
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underthestar
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« Reply #88 on: September 26, 2013, 01:23:38 PM »

I live in Bellingham WA and our premiums are decreasing a huge amount after October 1st
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underthestar
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« Reply #89 on: September 26, 2013, 01:25:50 PM »

The whole thing is bullshit.  You are born with DNA that can encode for cancer cells.  You are born with a heart with a certain capacity of limitation.  Virus and disease can be contracted easily and unknowingly.  There is no such thing as "pre-existing".  Its always pre-existing at some point.

The Private Health Insurance Industry is a sick and deranged scam.  I still can`t believe this is how healthcare operates in the United States.  Its an illogical waste of money hinged on making money off of human misery by not covering things and jacking the price up to make up for not being able to deny coverage.

Yet, you and others support this nonsense.  Very strange to me and very stupid.


+1
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Roger Bacon
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« Reply #90 on: September 26, 2013, 01:33:28 PM »

Most insurance premiums have risen in preparation for Obamacare, that is a fact.
If you make more than 45K, you'll get no subsidies and likely pay more for healthcare while free medicaid coverage is expanded 133%.

If health insurance wasn't expensive enough before, now you'll be forced to support people like Necrosis in addition to your own family.  Undecided
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Tapeworm
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« Reply #91 on: September 26, 2013, 02:30:17 PM »

The reason medical issues cost so much is that addressing them is in the hands of profit oriented people.  If I'm your insurer, it's best for me to regularly bill you for providing nothing (because you're not currently sick), take all the money you can possibly get your hands on once you fall sick by means of 'policy exclusions,' and then kill you as quickly as public perception of my level of evil permits once you don't have any more money to give me by delaying treatment or providing an insufficient quality of care... since you are now too poor to buy the good kind.  I have what you need and you're going to give me everything you've got for it.

The government is already in charge of tons of shit.  National security, infrastructure, law enforcement, education, etc.  It has nothing to do with socialism or communism.  They run the country.  That's the definition of a government.  Providing health care for its citizens should be one of their tasks.  Directly, and without any interposed profiteering entities.

Insurance companies legislated into medical.  Roll Eyes  They should be excluded entirely.

 
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« Reply #92 on: September 26, 2013, 02:36:19 PM »

Prime you're a super liberal just judging by your posts and where you live.

 Just remember nation wide that the massive tax breaks being handed out to subsidize payment of the policy is going to cost an insane amount of money this country doesn't have.  



I've mentioned this myself.  Subsidies are going to come out someone's wallet. It's difficult to get accurate information.  As you mention all sorts of calculations are being used to project the cost and effects.
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« Reply #93 on: September 26, 2013, 02:46:42 PM »

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuAoaWAPV3U" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuAoaWAPV3U</a>
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The True Adonis
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« Reply #94 on: September 26, 2013, 03:30:29 PM »

The reason medical issues cost so much is that addressing them is in the hands of profit oriented people.  If I'm your insurer, it's best for me to regularly bill you for providing nothing (because you're not currently sick), take all the money you can possibly get your hands on once you fall sick by means of 'policy exclusions,' and then kill you as quickly as public perception of my level of evil permits once you don't have any more money to give me by delaying treatment or providing an insufficient quality of care... since you are now too poor to buy the good kind.  I have what you need and you're going to give me everything you've got for it.

The government is already in charge of tons of shit.  National security, infrastructure, law enforcement, education, etc.  It has nothing to do with socialism or communism.  They run the country.  That's the definition of a government.  Providing health care for its citizens should be one of their tasks.  Directly, and without any interposed profiteering entities.

Insurance companies legislated into medical.  Roll Eyes  They should be excluded entirely.

 
Exactly.

I am just going to keep reposting this.
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« Reply #95 on: September 26, 2013, 03:40:03 PM »

The reason medical issues cost so much is that addressing them is in the hands of profit oriented people.  If I'm your insurer, it's best for me to regularly bill you for providing nothing (because you're not currently sick), take all the money you can possibly get your hands on once you fall sick by means of 'policy exclusions,' and then kill you as quickly as public perception of my level of evil permits once you don't have any more money to give me by delaying treatment or providing an insufficient quality of care... since you are now too poor to buy the good kind.  I have what you need and you're going to give me everything you've got for it.

The government is already in charge of tons of shit.  National security, infrastructure, law enforcement, education, etc.  It has nothing to do with socialism or communism. They run the country.  That's the definition of a government.  Providing health care for its citizens should be one of their tasks.  Directly, and without any interposed profiteering entities.

Insurance companies legislated into medical.  Roll Eyes  They should be excluded entirely.

 

  I'm sorry but that statement I bolded is entirely false.  The US Constitution lays out the specific roles and limits of government.  "Running shit" isn't their role.  The federal government is to provide for the common defense, resolve state conflicts, manage interstate commerce, coin and print debt free money, and provide a court framework for citizens to exercise their rights laid out in the 'Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights'.
  That weak minded citizens and whorish politicians have allowed the Federal Government to become so large they can run all the things you listed doesn't mean it should.  Government is force.  Period.  This might appeal to you when it uses its force to get you something you want (healthcare, food stamps, no bid military contracts) but it never relinquishes that force...never...and it will one day be turned on you.  That's the history of "Civilization".
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« Reply #96 on: September 26, 2013, 03:44:41 PM »

  I'm sorry but that statement I bolded is entirely false.  The US Constitution lays out the specific roles and limits of government.  "Running shit" isn't their role.  The federal government is to provide for the common defense, resolve state conflicts, manage interstate commerce, coin and print debt free money, and provide a court framework for citizens to exercise their rights laid out in the 'Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights'.
  That weak minded citizens and whorish politicians have allowed the Federal Government to become so large they can run all the things you listed doesn't mean it should.  Government is force.  Period.  This might appeal to you when it uses its force to get you something you want (healthcare, food stamps, no bid military contracts) but it never relinquishes that force...never...and it will one day be turned on you.  That's the history of "Civilization".

This should be saved and posted constantly. And we all know how well .Gov is at running things.
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« Reply #97 on: September 26, 2013, 04:42:49 PM »

"The less fortunate" are not always less fortunate.  Some are deserving, ie the sick, the old and the disabled but too many are lazy fuckers trying to get shit for free.  If you don't realize that, you need to get around more in lower income areas.  We should support our sick, old, disabled and folks that need a hand up but I am absolutely opposed to funding more and more people who don't deserve things for free.  133% expansion in medicaid is stupid and unaffordable for the states and working people.  Those folks (the new 33% that qualify) should pay something, even if a small amount.
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« Reply #98 on: September 27, 2013, 03:38:55 AM »

 I'm sorry but that statement I bolded is entirely false.  The US Constitution lays out the specific roles and limits of government.  "Running shit" isn't their role.  The federal government is to provide for the common defense, resolve state conflicts, manage interstate commerce, coin and print debt free money, and provide a court framework for citizens to exercise their rights laid out in the 'Declaration of Independence and Bill of Rights'.
  That weak minded citizens and whorish politicians have allowed the Federal Government to become so large they can run all the things you listed doesn't mean it should.  Government is force.  Period.  This might appeal to you when it uses its force to get you something you want (healthcare, food stamps, no bid military contracts) but it never relinquishes that force...never...and it will one day be turned on you.  That's the history of "Civilization".


Ok, we'll have to disagree about whether seeing to the health of a population should be the responsibility of a government on the basis that it is a prerequisite for all the other stuff that a government is allowed to be responsible for.

Taking it another way, no way does it belong with insurance companies.  If I'm sailing ships to East India and I want to take out insurance against the loss of my cargo and vessel, you and I might agree to an arrangement where I pay you X and if I lose a ship you pay me Y.  Will a ship sink?  I don't know.  Neither do you.  It might.

I might get robbed, or lose my shit in a house fire.  If I feel the risk of these possibilities justifies the cost of buying insurance then I would chose to do so.  Otherwise not.

Will I need medical aid at some point?  Of course.  Everyone will.  It's an absolute certainty.  What am I insuring against?  The outside possibility that I don't stay healthy forever until the end of time?  

Insuring against a universal inevitability is just plain weird.  There's no cost versus risk analysis to be done since the likelihood of occurrence is 100%.  Neither is there any question of winning the insurance bet, since it's safe to say at this point that insurance companies make money, leading us to conclude that they take in more than they pay out.  If you're selling doughnuts that's great entrepreneurship but profiting from people's ill health and generating actuarially oriented 'health plans' is ghoulish as hell.  

They should be put out on their ear.  Costs would plummet and quality of care would rise.  Instead they wrote 'em into law.  Talk about your greasy smoke filled room deals.
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