Author Topic: Bush's redemption  (Read 3515 times)

O.Z.

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2013, 06:33:29 PM »
bush is the greatest mass murderer so far in the 21st century. The century is still young so he may lose the title, but right now he has the title.

what about Nobel Peace Prize Winner, Obama? He should not be far behind.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2013, 06:51:44 PM »
He gave Hussain multiple chances, IMO, during the those time and some 17 resolutions, that's what gave them time to move the WMD's.....to Syria, as suspected.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/27/world/middleeast/syria-assad.html


BTW, I'm only posting this from the NY Slimes because it's the headliner on the www.drudgereport.com

You're nuts, Bush was only a tiny bit less bad than Obama.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2013, 06:52:20 PM »
Coach has it half right.


If Assad used chemical weapons, they likely came from Saddam. It's common knowledge at this point that Iraq transferred its chemical weapons to Syria prior to the US invasion.  I don't think Bush is vindicated one way or the other. Bottom line, we never should have invaded. We basically fucked up the entire Eastern Hemisphere of the world and got nothing in return.


 Here is the real story: If the rebels used these weapons, did they come from Libya after the US facilitated Al Qaeda's victory? Was Gadaffi's stockpile purloined by Radical Islamists?  That is the real question and the real story IMO.

THIS

OzmO

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2013, 07:12:57 PM »
Coach has it half right.


If Assad used chemical weapons, they likely came from Saddam. It's common knowledge at this point that Iraq transferred its chemical weapons to Syria prior to the US invasion.  I don't think Bush is vindicated one way or the other. Bottom line, we never should have invaded. We basically fucked up the entire Eastern Hemisphere of the world and got nothing in return.


 Here is the real story: If the rebels used these weapons, did they come from Libya after the US facilitated Al Qaeda's victory? Was Gadaffi's stockpile purloined by Radical Islamists?  That is the real question and the real story IMO.

That

Coach is Back!

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2013, 07:30:17 PM »
You're nuts, Bush was only a tiny bit less bad than Obama.

Yeah, in what way? Iraq? Voted on by both sides to go in. Economy? Housing was up, UE was low, the markets were up, war time growth in the ecomomy, etc

Sure, government grew and I sure as hell didn't agree with the first stimulus nor did I agree with his immigration but whatever he did sure as hell isn't even a fraction of what Obama is doing. 

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2013, 07:33:02 PM »
I love how people on this board just pretend it was "common knowledge" that Hussein has WMD's and than he sent them to Syria

You think this common knowledge would have trickled up to the Bush Administration that was desperate (both before and during the war) that their rationale for invading Iraq was justified

It's odd how people on a message board have more info on this than the Bush Administration

No, Syria Doesn’t Have Saddam’s Chemical Weapons
BY KRIS ALEXANDER07.27.12
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/07/syria-iraq-wmd-meme/

As if warped by some giant conspiratorial black hole, any discussion of Syria’s chemical and biological weapons inevitably bends back in time and space to Iraq in 2003. Remember the meme that Saddam Hussein transferred his deadly weapons to Syria ahead of the U.S. invasion? If not, you can bet you’ll hear it if Bashar Assad follows through on his threat to use chemical weapons against a foreign incursion. But this retroactive justification for the Iraq invasion will be just as bogus as every other time it’s come up in the last 10 years.

I’ve already debunked one of the rumors about Iraq’s WMD. I’m not buying this one.  Here’s why.

First: Think about it for a second. Strategically and militarily, it made no sense for Saddam to transfer his weapons of mass destruction to Syria. Saddam worked on acquiring WMD for a reason: to stave off an invasion and hold on to power.

Just listen to a defeated Saddam for a second. In a post-invasion interview, Saddam admitted that he had been bluffing about his WMD. This is actually case-closed for the conspiracy theories about his weapons transfers.  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

But for a moment, let’s suppose that Saddam circumvented the most intrusive sanction regime the world has ever known and rebuilt his WMD programs after inspectors (and Israeli jets) destroyed them. His reasoning would have been deterrence — as Thomas Schelling put it, Saddam would have given his enemies a “threat that leaves something to chance.” That’s why the Assad regime threatens on and off to use WMD: It keeps the foreign hordes at bay. So why, with U.S. massing forces on his border, would Saddam give up the one thing he had to raise the cost of invading to the Americans?


Second, let’s say that Saddam wasn’t so concerned about the Americans — a miscalculation that Saddam seems to have made. That’s actually not a rationale for transferring weapons to Syria. Just like in 1991, he faced the collapse of his regime. Except back then, he slaughtered jubilant Shiites and used chemical weapons on the Kurds. Why, in 2003, would Saddam give up the worst threat he could make against his people?

Third, the Iraqi Ba’athists and Syrian Ba’athists are far from allies.  Syria’s Allawites are minority Shiites and proxies to Iraq’s arch-enemy Iran. They fought on the allied side against Iraq during Desert Storm.  Why would Saddam turn over his deadliest weapons Iran’s best friend in the region? Remember: Saddam says he made his WMD threats to cower the Iranians.

Fourth, from a U.S. military perspective, the transfer would have been impossible to hide.  I worked at U.S. Central Command’s Mideast headquarters before, during, and after the invasion, which gave me a good understanding of what was going on at the time.  The region was blanketed by U.S. military assets.  Operation Enduring Freedom was in full swing in Afghanistan, and Operations Northern and Southern Watch were still in place over Iraq.  If something moved — like, say a convoy of Winnebagos of Death heading for Syria — it could be detected and killed.

For example, as the clock ticked down on President Bush’s deadline for Saddam and his sons to leave Iraq, the dictator was detected at Dora Farms. The U.S. was able to scramble F-117s over Baghdad and bomb Dora Farms with impunity as the clock ran out. If Saddam were moving his allegedly massive stockpile to Syria, it would have been impossible to hide from the United States. A convoy of illicit material moving through the Western desert would have been a perfect target: the U.S. could strike it from the air; and then insert teams on the ground to take forensic samples of the material.

Do you think anyone in the administration or the military would have turned down the chance to justify the war before it started?  Further, does anyone honestly think that if the Bush administration had good evidence that the material was somehow making its way into Syria, it wouldn’t have acted? Defense Secretary Rumsfeld was threatening Assad almost as soon as U.S. troops reached Baghdad.

As tragic as the decision to invade Iraq was, I’m not making any apologia for Saddam’s brutal regime.  Had there been no invasion and the sanctions somehow lifted, I believe he would have been back in the WMD game quickly. He retained a cadre of scientists, machinery and other latent capability to do it. But in this case, sanctions, inspections and containment worked.

Not that you’ll hear that if Assad uses his weapons. You’ll hear TV talking heads mumbling about how we now know where Saddam’s WMD went, amplified by ignorant blog posts and tweets. Even Mitt Romney, the GOP presidential nominee, has flirted with this long-debunked theory. The truth is that Syria has had chemical weapons programs for decades. Keep that in mind if Assad actually puts it to use.

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #31 on: August 26, 2013, 07:45:15 PM »
Yeah, in what way? Iraq? Voted on by both sides to go in. Economy? Housing was up, UE was low, the markets were up, war time growth in the ecomomy, etc

Sure, government grew and I sure as hell didn't agree with the first stimulus nor did I agree with his immigration but whatever he did sure as hell isn't even a fraction of what Obama is doing. 

yeah, everything was great with that cruise on the Titanic right up until the point that it hit the iceberg

why focus on the one bad thing at the end

Soul Crusher

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #32 on: August 26, 2013, 08:09:00 PM »
Got to love Obama tampons supporting yet another war by the communist Nobel Prixe winner

Coach is Back!

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #33 on: August 26, 2013, 08:10:55 PM »
bush is the greatest mass murderer so far in the 21st century. The century is still young so he may lose the title, but right now he has the title.

We went over this but maybe you thought i was exaggerating when i stated that 4x as many were killed in Obamas first 3 years than in the entire Bush administration. The numbers keep growing almost daily.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2013, 08:13:09 PM »
Yeah, in what way? Iraq? Voted on by both sides to go in. Economy? Housing was up, UE was low, the markets were up, war time growth in the ecomomy, etc

Sure, government grew and I sure as hell didn't agree with the first stimulus nor did I agree with his immigration but whatever he did sure as hell isn't even a fraction of what Obama is doing. 

Coach, at this point no one needs to explain the damage Bush did to our country. 

He's the entire reason it was even possible for a guy like Obama to be elected. 

Roger Bacon

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2013, 08:14:06 PM »
We had no business invading Iraq regardless. 

Oly15

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #36 on: August 26, 2013, 08:54:28 PM »
We had no business invading Iraq regardless. 

Tell us something we dont know mr rogers

Obama makes bush look like a saint. Obama is a pure obeyer of the elitists he has no power without them..bush at least had his family hierarchy so he got to tell people to fuck off a little easier. Daddy bush is where he got his power. Obama is a sand nigg slave that is pleased to carry anything they ask.

Roger Bacon

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #37 on: August 26, 2013, 09:04:19 PM »
Tell us something we dont know mr rogers

Obama makes bush look like a saint. Obama is a pure obeyer of the elitists he has no power without them..bush at least had his family hierarchy so he got to tell people to fuck off a little easier. Daddy bush is where he got his power. Obama is a sand nigg slave that is pleased to carry anything they ask.

I agree with you there...

Mr. Rogers...  ;D


Soul Crusher

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #38 on: August 27, 2013, 05:57:50 AM »

Archer77

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #39 on: August 27, 2013, 05:59:49 AM »
I still think they are both idiots. 
A

headhuntersix

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2013, 07:56:20 AM »
Third, the Iraqi Ba’athists and Syrian Ba’athists are far from allies.  Syria’s Allawites are minority Shiites and proxies to Iraq’s arch-enemy Iran. They fought on the allied side against Iraq during Desert Storm.  Why would Saddam turn over his deadliest weapons Iran’s best friend in the region? Remember: Saddam says he made his WMD threats to cower the Iranians.

This is complete and utter bullshit..of the highest order. The spiritual home of the Bath party is syria. Most of the Iraqi generals who fled ended up there. It was common knowledge in 2003-04 that weapons were moving over the border...then all those rumors were squashed. We had reports that devices were found buried..they'd get picked up and then..nothing. You had to be there to fully understand. There folks from the DOE and every spook org doing all kinds of things.

Hell Saddam sent his Migs to Iran in 1991.....a few short years after they fough a war..so please don't tell me that its not possible.
L

bears

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #41 on: August 27, 2013, 08:11:30 AM »
This thread is just a bunch of guys making wild guesses and pretending that their wild guesses are steeped in facts.  just like we did when we invaded Iraq in 2003.  it was stupid then.........and still stupid now.  sorry but you all know its the truth.   

headhuntersix

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #42 on: August 27, 2013, 08:33:43 AM »
Wild guess.....I ended up on Bagdad Airport in 2003...where were you? Atleast my rumors are based on what we saw and heard. Plus thats what boards like this are for.

L

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2013, 08:52:19 AM »
Third, the Iraqi Ba’athists and Syrian Ba’athists are far from allies.  Syria’s Allawites are minority Shiites and proxies to Iraq’s arch-enemy Iran. They fought on the allied side against Iraq during Desert Storm.  Why would Saddam turn over his deadliest weapons Iran’s best friend in the region? Remember: Saddam says he made his WMD threats to cower the Iranians.

This is complete and utter bullshit..of the highest order. The spiritual home of the Bath party is syria. Most of the Iraqi generals who fled ended up there. It was common knowledge in 2003-04 that weapons were moving over the border...then all those rumors were squashed. We had reports that devices were found buried..they'd get picked up and then..nothing. You had to be there to fully understand. There folks from the DOE and every spook org doing all kinds of things.

Hell Saddam sent his Migs to Iran in 1991.....a few short years after they fough a war..so please don't tell me that its not possible.

question 1: is the highlighted section above factual or not.  

qustion 2 (repeated from before):  is it possible for Syria to manufacture their own chemical weapons.

from Wiki:

Chemical Weapons

Quote
Western non-governmental organizations have stated they believe Syria has an active chemical weapons program.[5][6][7][8] Syria is not a party to the Chemical Weapons Convention, though it is a party to the 1925 Geneva Protocol which prohibits the first use of chemical weapons. In the aftermath of the 2003 invasion of Iraq it denied that it had chemical weapons,[9] but admitted it possessed such weapons in 2012.[10] Syria is one of six states that have not signed and eight that have not ratified the Chemical Weapons Convention.[11] Syria reportedly manufactures Sarin, Tabun, VX, and mustard gas types of chemical weapons.[12] Independent assessments indicate that Syrian production could be up to a combined total of a few hundred tons of chemical agent per year.[13] (To provide context for this estimate, 190,000 tons were manufactured by World War I participants.

question 3:  Why are you ignoring the fact that Saddam admitted (after being captured) that he never had any WMD's and said he let the world believe he had them because he was deathly afraid of an invasion by Iran and did not want to appear weak.  

A couple excerpts from the link below:

Quote
Hussein, in fact, said he felt so vulnerable to the perceived threat from "fanatic" leaders in Tehran that he would have been prepared to seek a "security agreement with the United States to protect [Iraq] from threats in the region."

Hussein, who was often defiant and boastful during the interviews, at one point wistfully acknowledged that he should have permitted the United Nations to witness the destruction of Iraq's weapons stockpile after the 1991 Persian Gulf War

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

Again, still need to go back to the MOST OBVIOUS reason which is that if Saddam had moved weapons to Syria and it was "common knowledge" then the Bush Administration would have known about it as they were desperate to justify their invasion of Iraq.

All of the above leads me to conclude that the LEAST LIKELY possibility is that Saddam moved chemical weapons or any WMD to Syria

Soul Crusher

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2013, 08:54:19 AM »
And your excuses for Obama's new war on Syria based on lies and fabrications is . . . ..  .. .

question 1: is the highlighted section above factual or not.  

qustion 2 (repeated from before):  is it possible for Syria to manufacture their own chemical weapons.

from Wiki:

Chemical Weapons

question 3:  Why are you ignoring the fact that Saddam admitted (after being captured) that he never had any WMD's and said he let the world believe he had them because he was deathly afraid of an invasion by Iran and did not want to appear weak.  

A couple excerpts from the link below:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/01/AR2009070104217.html

Again, still need to go back to the MOST OBVIOUS reason which is that if Saddam had moved weapons to Syria and it was "common knowledge" then the Bush Administration would have known about it as they were desperate to justify their invasion of Iraq.

All of the above leads me to conclude that the LEAST LIKELY possibility is that Saddam moved chemical weapons or any WMD to Syria

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #45 on: August 27, 2013, 09:23:54 AM »
And your excuses for Obama's new war on Syria based on lies and fabrications is . . . ..  .. .


that post and those questions were for and in response to HH6

when I want to the opinion of a moronic bottle opening monkey I will let you know

Soul Crusher

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #46 on: August 27, 2013, 09:26:26 AM »
that post and those questions were for and in response to HH6

when I want to the opinion of a moronic bottle opening monkey I will let you know

LOL - face it  - Obama is the same as the evil W, and more so , and you leftist phonies cant admit it

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2013, 09:29:40 AM »
LOL - face it  - Obama is the same as the evil W, and more so , and you leftist phonies cant admit it

well that should make his very popular with Republicans

shouldn't you be off practicing your bottle opening skills

I'm sure O'Reily is going to be calling you any day now to air your fascinating story of frustration and public humiliation

Soul Crusher

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #48 on: August 27, 2013, 09:32:56 AM »
well that should make his very popular with Republicans

shouldn't you be off practicing your bottle opening skills

I'm sure O'Reily is going to be calling you any day now to air your fascinating story of frustration and public humiliation

Obama is giving UN weapons inspectors less time than W did and you left wing twinks and fairies still worship this ghetto crackhead as your god king. 

Straw Man

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Re: Bush's redemption
« Reply #49 on: August 27, 2013, 09:36:01 AM »
Obama is giving UN weapons inspectors less time than W did and you left wing twinks and fairies still worship this ghetto crackhead as your god king. 

perfect example of why I'm not interested in anything you have to say

maybe Ron can start a "padded room" board for you