Low test, need advice to keep it low

[Primemuscle]

so the testing didn't work out as i had hoped
my levels vary between just slightly under minimum and slightly above minimum (been tested 4 times now)

which means they won't help me because obvious;y my body does produce by itself

next step is to start using, don't want high dosages though and preferably as few orals as possible

any suggestions on types of gear and lenght of usage?

Testosterone cypionate injections @ 200 mg a week keeps me in the high normal range. HCG 250 mg each of the last two days prior to testosterone injections insures I'm still producing testosterone naturally as well. Pretty easy routine with no negative sides for me.

[Primemuscle]

that's odd.

without any test, my levels are below 100.

and 200mg every 2 weeks puts me at 700+ (which is high-normal)... 3 days after injection i'm at 1400, which is well above high-normal... if I did 200 every week of cyp, the half-life build up after a few weeks would put be near 2000, more than double 'high normal'.

I was just under 300 without test.

[phreak]

Testosterone cypionate injections @ 200 mg a week keeps me in the high normal range. HCG 250 mg each of the last two days prior to testosterone injections insures I'm still producing testosterone naturally as well. Pretty easy routine with no negative sides for me.

Have you experimented with other HCG protocols or test dosing? E.g. 100 mg TE twice weekly, with 250 mg of HCG on the day preceding injection? I would be going for the most stable levels, as I am prone to roid raging if my estrogen goes up.

[Primemuscle]

Have you experimented with other HCG protocols or test dosing? E.g. 100 mg TE twice weekly, with 250 mg of HCG on the day preceding injection? I would be going for the most stable levels, as I am prone to roid raging if my estrogen goes up.

I am not prone to "roid raging" so my protocol might be different from yours. I inject 200 mg of test cyp on Mondays. On Saturday and Sunday prior to the next test injection, I inject 250 mg of HCG per day. My one real ball seems normal sized or maybe a bit larger since it has to do the work of two balls. My moods are stable all week long with no highs and no lows, I am not currently taking an anti estrogen since I am not experiencing any of the effects too much estrogen. This not a unique protocol. Some endocrinologist who specialize in men's hormonal issues prescribe a similar regime.

[phreak]

I am not prone to "roid raging" so my protocol might be different from yours. I inject 200 mg of test cyp on Mondays. On Saturday and Sunday prior to the next test injection, I inject 250 mg of HCG per day. My one real ball seems normal sized or maybe a bit larger since it has to do the work of two balls. My moods are stable all week long with no highs and no lows, I am not currently taking an anti estrogen since I am not experiencing any of the effects too much estrogen. This not a unique protocol. Some endocrinologist who specialize in men's hormonal issues prescribe a similar regime.

Okay, then I'll just take it from there. If I need even more stable levels I can always start experimenting. Starting next week, can't wait!

[gilles]

i got my TE 250mg/ml 10 ml delivered today

should i take 125 mg 2x a week or will 250 mg  1x a week do the job?

[Borracho]

i got my TE 250mg/ml 10 ml delivered today

should i take 125 mg 2x a week or will 250 mg  1x a week do the job?

250 once a week is good.

If you were using more than I'd consider it but don't even bother right now.

Have fun!

[gilles]

250 once a week is good.

If you were using more than I'd consider it but don't even bother right now.

Have fun!

thanks !

[phreak]

thanks !

Good luck, my first injection (also 250 mg) was two days ago.

[gilles]

Good luck, my first injection (also 250 mg) was two days ago.

mine today 

i'll update every now and then

[Big Chiro Flex]

Good luck, my first injection (also 250 mg) was two days ago.

Congrats 

[oni]

that's odd.

without any test, my levels are below 100.

and 200mg every 2 weeks puts me at 700+ (which is high-normal)... 3 days after injection i'm at 1400, which is well above high-normal... if I did 200 every week of cyp, the half-life build up after a few weeks would put be near 2000, more than double 'high normal'.

Never had mine tested outside of being a natural but my friend is like this. I guess some people just respond better to hormones or have better enzymes for breaking down esters. Single 250mg shot of testosterone undecanoate had him (her at the time) with test levels at 1200 after 13 days. Then another shot on day 14 and so on

[phreak]

Congrats  

Thanks. I think. Why the uncertainty? Because in the last week my weight seems to be blowing up. I'm obese, so can't tell if it is muscle or not. Is it normal to jump in weight when you start test?

And no, I'm not eating more. My wife prepares exactly the same food in the same quantities. But instead of losing weight (about a pound per week) I've gained twice that in the last 7 days. Not good, I actually need to cut more.




First injected on the evening of the 20th.

[Borracho]

Thanks. I think. Why the uncertainty? Because in the last week my weight seems to be blowing up. I'm obese, so can't tell if it is muscle or not. Is it normal to jump in weight when you start test?

And no, I'm not eating more. My wife prepares exactly the same food in the same quantities. But instead of losing weight (about a pound per week) I've gained twice that in the last 7 days. Not good, I actually need to cut more.




First injected on the evening of the 20th.

Completely normal bro.

Steroids increase glycogen, water, sodium retention; some more than others making that weight shoot right up.

This is one of the reasons why some people suggest to be a bit leaner before going on so as not to turn yourself into bigger mess. Instead you can use some of the gear known to cause less bloating but in your case since already on, I suggest you cut the carbs down(will cause less water retention), increase your protein and lower those cals and concentrate on leaning out.

I made the same mistake when I went on btw,,,was like 15% bf and continued eating as I had before thinking that I would magically recomp, losing fat and adding muscle.

This shit works no doubt but without a proper diet and training regimen you won't be satisfied with your results.

[gilles]

Thanks. I think. Why the uncertainty? Because in the last week my weight seems to be blowing up. I'm obese, so can't tell if it is muscle or not. Is it normal to jump in weight when you start test?

And no, I'm not eating more. My wife prepares exactly the same food in the same quantities. But instead of losing weight (about a pound per week) I've gained twice that in the last 7 days. Not good, I actually need to cut more.




First injected on the evening of the 20th.

same story here bro

i gained 2,5 kg since last friday, no changes in diet

will try to adjust my diet like borracho suggested

maybe i need to up the cardio and move around a lot more too  

[macos]

same story here bro

i gained 2,5 kg since last friday, no changes in diet

will try to adjust my diet like borracho suggested

maybe i need to up the cardio and move around a lot more too  

adding winstrol is what you can try.

[Borracho]

same story here bro

i gained 2,5 kg since last friday, no changes in diet

will try to adjust my diet like borracho suggested

maybe i need to up the cardio and move around a lot more too  

Some may suggest an ai like arimidex but imo it can lead into the habit of relying more on drugs than maintaining a proper diet. I do much better with low carbs, and with gear the less of them I need for training and feeling well. 

[Big Chiro Flex]

Completely normal bro.

Steroids increase glycogen, water, sodium retention; some more than others making that weight shoot right up.

This is one of the reasons why some people suggest to be a bit leaner before going on so as not to turn yourself into bigger mess. Instead you can use some of the gear known to cause less bloating but in your case since already on, I suggest you cut the carbs down(will cause less water retention), increase your protein and lower those cals and concentrate on leaning out.

I made the same mistake when I went on btw,,,was like 15% bf and continued eating as I had before thinking that I would magically recomp, losing fat and adding muscle.

This shit works no doubt but without a proper diet and training regimen you won't be satisfied with your results.

This.

Use this time now to shred that fat. You won't lose muscle now with gear. Hammer out a solid keto diet and shred up bro. Seriously... I think it's dumb to start a cycle if you're already fat but if you are, be damn good with your diet and use this as a tool to reach a healthy lean weight.

[SamoanIrishman]

4-5 glasses of red wine per night will lower it.

yeah seriously. Do some heavy drinking

http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-4/282-287.htm

[phreak]

Completely normal bro.

Steroids increase glycogen, water, sodium retention; some more than others making that weight shoot right up.

This is one of the reasons why some people suggest to be a bit leaner before going on so as not to turn yourself into bigger mess. Instead you can use some of the gear known to cause less bloating but in your case since already on, I suggest you cut the carbs down(will cause less water retention), increase your protein and lower those cals and concentrate on leaning out.

I made the same mistake when I went on btw,,,was like 15% bf and continued eating as I had before thinking that I would magically recomp, losing fat and adding muscle.

This shit works no doubt but without a proper diet and training regimen you won't be satisfied with your results.

Thanks for reassuring me -- and kicking me in the ass.

As some background: I know it's not a magical recomp drug. I'm taking HRT (HRT+?) dosages for health mainly. I'm 40, cut down from 315 to 200 in three years time. Which is great, except that I felt like shit the last 1.5 years. Weak (bench down from 365 clean to maybe 255 clean), low libido, lethargic in general, etc. Had my test tested, and it came out borderline low. Low enough to be recognized as a problem, but not so low that I would be getting treatment. Basically I was told: "we'll keep monitoring it, and only when it goes below 180 ng/dl will we do something".

Of course I could have tried to artifically lower it for subsequent tests, and maybe I will in future, but right now I just want to feel normal again. It's just not right that being a 315-Lb fatass I felt much better and more energetic than a slightly chubby 200-pounder. I honestly enjoyed running more when I was 315 than now.

So yes, I will cut further. But I hope you'll understand that weight gain freaks me the fuck out these days. My goal is to NEVER be over 200 again. So I am panicking now that I was so close, and see it slipping away...

[Borracho]

Thanks for reassuring me -- and kicking me in the ass.

As some background: I know it's not a magical recomp drug. I'm taking HRT (HRT+?) dosages for health mainly. I'm 40, cut down from 315 to 200 in three years time. Which is great, except that I felt like shit the last 1.5 years. Weak (bench down from 365 clean to maybe 255 clean), low libido, lethargic in general, etc. Had my test tested, and it came out borderline low. Low enough to be recognized as a problem, but not so low that I would be getting treatment. Basically I was told: "we'll keep monitoring it, and only when it goes below 180 ng/dl will we do something".

Of course I could have tried to artifically lower it for subsequent tests, and maybe I will in future, but right now I just want to feel normal again. It's just not right that being a 315-Lb fatass I felt much better and more energetic than a slightly chubby 200-pounder. I honestly enjoyed running more when I was 315 than now.

So yes, I will cut further. But I hope you'll understand that weight gain freaks me the fuck out these days. My goal is to NEVER be over 200 again. So I am panicking now that I was so close, and see it slipping away...

Props for losing all the weight you have already!

When you're ready in the future, it will be much easier to get those testosterone levels the way you need for testing purposes. Just skip an injection and wait a few weeks and the tests should come back rock bottom.

wrt the weight gain, I'm sure you have experienced daily fluctuations in weight depending on your diet. Those fluctuations will be ever more dramatic/apparent now with the bit of test you're taking so keep that in mind before putting something in your mouth  

[phreak]

Props for losing all the weight you have already!

Thanks. The good thing is that my wife also lost a lot of weight. So I should be banging her brains out constantly.

When you're ready in the future, it will be much easier to get those testosterone levels the way you need for testing purposes. Just skip an injection and wait a couple weeks and the tests should come back rock bottom.

wrt the weight gain, I'm sure you have experienced daily fluctuations in weight depending on your diet. Those fluctuations will be ever more dramatic/apparent now with the bit of test you're taking so keep that in mind before putting something in your mouth  

Never eating again! Going on the Galeniko diet starting right now. But thanks for the encouragement. I will succeed, it's just taking longer than expected.

[Borracho]

Thanks. The good thing is that my wife also lost a lot of weight. So I should be banging her brains out constantly.

Yeah, your wife and someone else is more possible now.   

Never eating again! Going on the Galeniko diet starting right now. But thanks for the encouragement. I will succeed, it's just taking longer than expected.

No faster way to get it done than the galeniko way.

"Never eating again"...sounds familiar lol.

[Primemuscle]

Thanks for reassuring me -- and kicking me in the ass.

As some background: I know it's not a magical recomp drug. I'm taking HRT (HRT+?) dosages for health mainly. I'm 40, cut down from 315 to 200 in three years time. Which is great, except that I felt like shit the last 1.5 years. Weak (bench down from 365 clean to maybe 255 clean), low libido, lethargic in general, etc. Had my test tested, and it came out borderline low. Low enough to be recognized as a problem, but not so low that I would be getting treatment. Basically I was told: "we'll keep monitoring it, and only when it goes below 180 ng/dl will we do something".

Of course I could have tried to artifically lower it for subsequent tests, and maybe I will in future, but right now I just want to feel normal again. It's just not right that being a 315-Lb fatass I felt much better and more energetic than a slightly chubby 200-pounder. I honestly enjoyed running more when I was 315 than now.

So yes, I will cut further. But I hope you'll understand that weight gain freaks me the fuck out these days. My goal is to NEVER be over 200 again. So I am panicking now that I was so close, and see it slipping away...

Do you suppose there is a relationship you being "slightly chubby" and your low test scores? You didn't mention your height but perhaps, your testosterone levels might actually increase if you dropped a few more pounds. How long ago was it that you weighed 315 lbs.? Age has a lot to do with testosterone levels as do many other factors including diet and stress levels.

My testosterone levels were just shy of 300. Fortunately, my urologist felt this was low enough that it warranted HRT. I am only supposed to inject 150 mg a week, but the way the testosterone is prescribed, I am able to inject 200 mg per week without running out between refills, so I do that and I basically lie to the doctor about it. In addition, I inject 250 mg of HCG on each of the two days preceding the testosterone injection to insure I am still producing testosterone on my own.

I will probably have to stop the injections a week or so before my next labs to insure my test levels are not too high. When I see the doctor, I stress the fact that feel good using the current regime. So far, this has worked for me and for him.

[phreak]

Do you suppose there is a relationship you being "slightly chubby" and your low test scores? You didn't mention your height but perhaps, your testosterone levels might actually increase if you dropped a few more pounds. How long ago was it that you weighed 315 lbs.? Age has a lot to do with testosterone levels as do many other factors including diet and stress levels.

Forgot to mention I'm rather short, 5' 10.5". I'm aware of the link between fat and testosterone, but I see where your question is coming from. I'm middle aged, so I know natural test would be dropping now anyway. But I was 37 and 315, now 40 and 205. So I would expect it to be a few percent less (like in the various studies I read about this), not cataclysmically drop to borderline female.

So right now I would have expected my test to have risen slightly, losing this much weight; hadn't expected both my fat and my test to drop.

My testosterone levels were just shy of 300. Fortunately, my urologist felt this was low enough that it warranted HRT. I am only supposed to inject 150 mg a week, but the way the testosterone is prescribed, I am able to inject 200 mg per week without running out between refills, so I do that and I basically lie to the doctor about it. In addition, I inject 250 mg of HCG on each of the two days preceding the testosterone injection to insure I am still producing testosterone on my own.

Yes, read your protocol, and am copying this myself.

I will probably have to stop the injections a week or so before my next labs to insure my test levels are not too high. When I see the doctor, I stress the fact that feel good using the current regime. So far, this has worked for me and for him.

I might go that route eventually, by artificially reducing test further. But right now it is cheaper to buy it black market, and though it is technically illegal here, you wouldn't get more than a slap on the wrist. Probably not even a fine if it is clearly for personal use.