gaining more muscle mass on a cycle by using a SERM instead of AI for gyno

[Mad-scientist]

Basically my question is do you guys think it would be worth it to run something like nolvadex through out a bulking cycle and not use an AI. I have heard estrogen can really increase muscle gains on cycle. I know that this would result in a very bloated look and increase blood pressure and possibly other health problems. But I am wondering how much more muscle it would actually result in as a estimation and would it be worth it in the long run. I am just curious if any of you have done this and did it work?

[Sector]

Basically my question is do you guys think it would be worth it to run something like nolvadex through out a bulking cycle and not use an AI. I have heard estrogen can really increase muscle gains on cycle. I know that this would result in a very bloated look and increase blood pressure and possibly other health problems. But I am wondering how much more muscle it would actually result in as a estimation and would it be worth it in the long run. I am just curious if any of you have done this and did it work?

Where did you hear that estrogen can "really increase muscle gains on cycle" and whats your reasoning for believing it to be true?

Water does not = muscle. Use and AI if you need it, skip the AIs if you dont need it. Its that simple.

[Mad-scientist]

Lots of people have made the argument about needing estrogen to grow. And that AI's suppress muscle growth. I would personally rather use a AI because I do not like all the bloat but if I was able to gain another lets say 5 pounds of muscle on a cycle by using estrogen to my advantage I would be willing to consider not using a AI.

[Big Chiro Flex]

My humble opinion: I don't believe supra physiological E2 levels will aid in MUSCLE growth. The goal of an AI during an off season or bulk phase should be to keep E2 levels stable, not to crush them down to nothing. Yes you need estrogen for normal physiological processes. Balance is key with estrogen.

[ESFitness]

too much AI kills my sex drive... so i'll only use adex 3 days a week, or 12.5 aromasin/day, and if I feel any hint of gyno coming, i'll use a few days worth of nolva and i'm good.

[oni]

Adex 2 weeks on 2 weeks off should be fine
You don't need to stay on them all the time. Tamoxifen blocks the receptors so the estrogens are still going to be there- when you go off them you get that massive influx of estrogens. Adex will stop estrogen from being produced, so it takes a while for levels to build up again

There are loads of ways to skin this cat but ultimately you need regular blood tests and trial and error to see what works for you. It's a fag, I know but these are hormones pay attention to your shit

[Big Chiro Flex]

Adex 2 weeks on 2 weeks off should be fine
You don't need to stay on them all the time. Tamoxifen blocks the receptors so the estrogens are still going to be there- when you go off them you get that massive influx of estrogens. Adex will stop estrogen from being produced, so it takes a while for levels to build up again

There are loads of ways to skin this cat but ultimately you need regular blood tests and trial and error to see what works for you. It's a fag, I know but these are hormones pay attention to your shit

I'm curious why you recommend 2 on 2 off for the Adex?? Why not a consistent stable dose?

[randy841]

Go for quality - not quantity.

Water buffalo look gets old fast.

P.S. Adex - use at .25-.50mg eod. Perfect harmony for me is .50mg eod @500mg test wkly. Save the nolva $ for another bottle.

[oni]

I'm curious why you recommend 2 on 2 off for the Adex?? Why not a consistent stable dose?

To allow levels to build up again

[Big Chiro Flex]

To allow levels to build up again

Can u spell it out for me, sorry if I'm slow. Why not just use a low dose every day??

[oni]

Can u spell it out for me, sorry if I'm slow. Why not just use a low dose every day??

They make you feel like shit and the less time you're taking something the better
Unless you get regular blood tests as well, it's easier to knock it down and wait for it to come back and you get a wave effect
I have no idea about BBing but in powerlifting it's very advantageous from a strength perspective.