Walmart Holding Canned Food Drive For Its Own Underpaid Employees

[tonymctones]

Tax breaks wont make it cheaper to produce goods in the US than China.

What you need is:
$5 a day wages
No environmental regulations
Rampant corruption

Enjoy that.

again just absolutely NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!

you dont have to make is cheaper to produce products here but to OPERATE HERE. I know to a person who doesnt understand the terms or from your posts business in general these seem like the same thing but they arent.

building a product involves simply the Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) in other word direct cost (not to be confused with fixed cost) but the cost of Operations include everything that goes into building that product including overhead.

Overhead that is made more expensive by useless legislation, red tape, costly government processes that require lawyers to interpret and guide a business through.

If you go further down the income statement you will get non operating cost such as overhead, interest, taxes, pay for employees who dont build the product or service the client directly, ever heard of EBIT or EBITDA?

Making the bottom line better can be done many ways in terms of this conversation you can increase "E" or earnings or decrease "IT" interest and taxes.

You see what YOU NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND is its not about making it cheaper to produce things in the US, just cheaper to operate in the US.

You also have to remember it costs companies to move operations over seas as well.

Use this formula to get a better grip on it: Staying in the US < Moving entire operations overseas - savings from moving operations over seas

making it cheaper to stay in the US can be done a number of different ways.

[pedro01]

Honestly I think this goes to the heart of the issue. Decades ago manufacturing was the crux of the US economy but now do the technology and transportation flattening the world the US has outsourced the menial and labor intensive tasks to cheaper more efficient areas of the world. As a result the US economy has become more service based with those with the forsight, ability and work ethic to see the change taking advantage of it and those who dont being relegated to the menial service jobs or the few manufacturing jobs we have left.

The issue as I see it is, many of the people refuse to change, refuse to better themselves and continue to make bad decisions which put them in the situation that spirals down.

There is nothing more efficient about manufacturing in China, it is incredibly inefficient. On the bright side, people cost next to nothing and there is little regulatory oversight.

Of course, the downside of this is occasionally workers buildings collapse on them, people have accidents due to lack of safety regulations, people work at slave rates for little more than board & food, young children end up working full time jobs and not getting educated.

Still - it's a free market. Those children could leave the factory and go to school and get an education if they aren't happy.

As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.

Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.

[tonymctones]

Just as an FYI - this Liberal runs an offshore software development company in Thailand for a multi-national company. I am still able to empathize with people in difficult situations though.

As am I, that doesnt mean people who have the ability to do better or have made bad choices are my fucking responsibility.

If you feel that way, donate your own fucking money to the cause like I do to causes I am passionate about. You dont see me telling you that people need to donate to wounded vet foundations or organizations for children who have lost loved ones help process their grief, how about the pancreatic cancer organization PANCAN?

Its a fallacy of the left that people who dont feel the way they do are unsympathetic ass holes...

Hmmm - the way it should be? Well first of all you would not get a loan if you were earning $2 an hour but second of all there is no free market in the US education system, so you just bent over and did the schools and banks a massive favor. School fees are totally inflated there which of course prevents a lot of people from participating.

Actually you would get a loan, the government itself helps subsidize student loans

http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-loan-info/government-student-loan.php

I seriously think you have no idea how this shit works, that was a incredibly ignorant statement to make.

I agree I did the banks a big favor, I did it b/c I was bettering myself and now have much more opportunities to make money than before.

SO GUESS WHAT? THEY DID ME A GREAT BIG FAVOR TOO

the banks arent there to just do you favors dumbass, they are there to make money!!!

again NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!

[tonymctones]

There is nothing more efficient about manufacturing in China, it is incredibly inefficient. On the bright side, people cost next to nothing and there is little regulatory oversight.

Of course, the downside of this is occasionally workers buildings collapse on them, people have accidents due to lack of safety regulations, people work at slave rates for little more than board & food, young children end up working full time jobs and not getting educated.

Still - it's a free market. Those children could leave the factory and go to school and get an education if they aren't happy.

As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.

Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.

if its cheaper to operate in china, is it not more economically efficient?

Im telling you guys NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE, I hope you have no responsibilities for the financials of the department you operate

[pedro01]

again just absolutely NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!!!

OK - no business sense because I said that tax breaks will not make it cheaper to produce goods in US that China.

Which is bizarre seeing as I have been running a country operation for an MNC for the past 12 years and I also have my own software company in Thailand that sells into the US - and that is doing quite well too!

you dont have to make is cheaper to produce products here but to OPERATE HERE. I know to a person who doesnt understand the terms or from your posts business in general these seem like the same thing but they arent.

Could you rephrase that in English please. Maybe go out & get some fresh air first.

building a product involves simply the Cost of Goods Sold (COGS) in other word direct cost (not to be confused with fixed cost) but the cost of Operations include everything that goes into building that product including overhead.

Overhead that is made more expensive by useless legislation, red tape, costly government processes that require lawyers to interpret and guide a business through.

Correct - and safety regulation, pollution control, child labor laws. People out here are still dying in Asbestos factories.

You might want to hold off on the red tape comments though 'cause you obviously haven't operated a business in Asia. Singapore is very easy but most countries here are a complete nightmare in terms of red tape - absolute minefield. Of course, a lawyer and a little tea money helps.

If you go further down the income statement you will get non operating cost such as overhead, interest, taxes, pay for employees who dont build the product or service the client directly, ever heard of EBIT or EBITDA?

Making the bottom line better can be done many ways in terms of this conversation you can increase "E" or earnings or decrease "IT" interest and taxes.

lol - whose been and read "CPA for dummies". I do understand the numbers, I don't prep the accounts, just sign off on them. I have other people that perform menial tasks like that.

Yes - which proves my point that taxes are only part of the equation. Manufacturing in China adds a lot of cost - logistical, time, scrappage but it is all more that compensated by the fact you can get a Chinese guy to work on $5 a day and if the job gives him cancer in 5 years, you can just get another one.

You see what YOU NEED TO REALLY UNDERSTAND is its not about making it cheaper to produce things in the US, just cheaper to operate in the US.

You also have to remember it costs companies to move operations over seas as well.

Use this formula to get a better grip on it: Staying in the US < Moving entire operations overseas - savings from moving operations over seas

making it cheaper to stay in the US can be done a number of different ways.

Well - seeing as I've helped a number companies move parts of their operation overseas, I can give you some insight. Even as a very ethical employer, the US will simply never be able to compete on a cost basis because right now, the cost of living out here is so low that regardless of what other changes you make, you simply cannot reduce costs to match.

On the upside, salary growth out here is very high on an annual basis but static in the US, so as you find your standard of living dropping, out here it is rising and at some point they will meet in the middle.

[tonymctones]

As for the "service based economy" - how does a country where everyone works in Starbucks maintain any sort of edge? Your 'non location specific' services are all being outsourced now too - call centers, software development, R&D.

Economically, it's suicide. It's like a race to the bottom.

you see the economy has become more global again as techonology and transportation have flattened the world.

hahahah oh wow, you do know that barrista and wall mart sales associate arent indicative of all service jobs right?

how about financial services? how about engineering services? Airlines provide a service.

hahahahh

[pedro01]

As am I, that doesnt mean people who have the ability to do better or have made bad choices are my fucking responsibility.

If you feel that way, donate your own fucking money to the cause like I do to causes I am passionate about. You dont see me telling you that people need to donate to wounded vet foundations or organizations for children who have lost loved ones help process their grief, how about the pancreatic cancer organization PANCAN?

What on earth are you talking about.

I pay good wages. I practice what I preach. I pay well, have very loyal staff, low labor turnover and yet am profitable.

As for you giving to charity - how very lovely for you. To me, that's a personal thing. I find it distasteful when people give and need to shout about it.

Actually you would get a loan, the government itself helps subsidize student loans

http://www.staffordloan.com/stafford-loan-info/government-student-loan.php

I seriously think you have no idea how this shit works, that was a incredibly ignorant statement to make.

I agree I did the banks a big favor, I did it b/c I was bettering myself and now have much more opportunities to make money than before.

Correct - the banks have convinced the governments to guarantee the loans. This means you schools can charge what the fuck they want because the loans aren't capped by ability to pay. Then students can renege on the loans with no recourse.

And you, Mr Free Market, think that there is something good about this system? You approve of your tax dollars going to banks and schools but you don't think businesses should pay a living wage. Strange form of capitalism you have going on there.

SO GUESS WHAT? THEY DID ME A GREAT BIG FAVOR TOO

the banks arent there to just do you favors dumbass, they are there to make money!!!

again NO FUCKING BUSINESS SENSE!!!

Correct -the banks are not there to do favors. They are there to make money and how easy that is with your tax dollars ensure they take zero risk on the loans. Tommy McSocialist.

[rachaelsnav]

Go to your local neighborhood small-town non-chain, market, hardware, bookstore, etc; take your pick.  How much are they paying an hour?  What are the benefit plans they offer their employees:healthcare, retirement? How many people do they employ?   What are your chances to work your way up in that local organization?  Could you move and get a job with the same organization?  and how much does everything cost in those stores are they cheaper?  Do they offer the same amount of choices?  Are they large investors in alternate energy?

After doing that tell me is Wal-Mart so bad or just the easy target?

[James28]

This is so easy to say when it isn't you. I presume also you don't have a family and kids in school.

If you were on $8.88 an hour - what would you expect your savings to be? How would you be able to afford to move? How would you make rental deposit on a new place?

I would never in a trillion years be in the position of having kids and working in a supermarket at the same time. Ever.

So I really never thought about it.

[tonymctones]

OK - no business sense because I said that tax breaks will not make it cheaper to produce goods in US that China.

Which is bizarre seeing as I have been running a country operation for an MNC for the past 12 years and I also have my own software company in Thailand that sells into the US - and that is doing quite well too!

Could you rephrase that in English please. Maybe go out & get some fresh air first.

Correct - and safety regulation, pollution control, child labor laws. People out here are still dying in Asbestos factories.

You might want to hold off on the red tape comments though 'cause you obviously haven't operated a business in Asia. Singapore is very easy but most countries here are a complete nightmare in terms of red tape - absolute minefield. Of course, a lawyer and a little tea money helps.

lol - whose been and read "CPA for dummies". I do understand the numbers, I don't prep the accounts, just sign off on them. I have other people that perform menial tasks like that.

Yes - which proves my point that taxes are only part of the equation. Manufacturing in China adds a lot of cost - logistical, time, scrappage but it is all more that compensated by the fact you can get a Chinese guy to work on $5 a day and if the job gives him cancer in 5 years, you can just get another one.

Well - seeing as I've helped a number companies move parts of their operation overseas, I can give you some insight. Even as a very ethical employer, the US will simply never be able to compete on a cost basis because right now, the cost of living out here is so low that regardless of what other changes you make, you simply cannot reduce costs to match.

On the upside, salary growth out here is very high on an annual basis but static in the US, so as you find your standard of living dropping, out here it is rising and at some point they will meet in the middle.

hahah no need to read CPA for dummies although I would encourage you to do some self learning b/c you obviously need it. I worked in accounting/finance while going to school at night for my MBA.

Where did I say that taxes where the only thing that needed to be addressed? I have said the complete opposite as a matter of fact.

Fact of the matter is the US is the biggest economy in the world. If the govt wants to make it where those businesses that operate in the US have an advantage economically over those that dont they could do it without much negative effect.

Companies are vying for our citizens business

[tonymctones]

What on earth are you talking about.

I pay good wages. I practice what I preach. I pay well, have very loyal staff, low labor turnover and yet am profitable.

As for you giving to charity - how very lovely for you. To me, that's a personal thing. I find it distasteful when people give and need to shout about it.

yup you cared enough about it to imply that you can sympathize but me by virtue of my stance cannot. I didnt shout about it I used it as an example to dismiss the ignorance in your assumption champ.

Correct - the banks have convinced the governments to guarantee the loans. This means you schools can charge what the fuck they want because the loans aren't capped by ability to pay. Then students can renege on the loans with no recourse.

Actually champ its extremely difficult to reneg on student loans, you are not able to do so even under bankruptcy in the vast majority of situations.

And you, Mr Free Market, think that there is something good about this system? You approve of your tax dollars going to banks and schools but you don't think businesses should pay a living wage. Strange form of capitalism you have going on there.

Correct -the banks are not there to do favors. They are there to make money and how easy that is with your tax dollars ensure they take zero risk on the loans. Tommy McSocialist.

I would much rather pay taxes so others can better themselves than to pay taxes so we can prop up those who make bad decisions and have a deluded sense of self worth.

I guess I would rather see people better themselves and you would rather they just get bailed out of their shitty choices

[pedro01]

hahah no need to read CPA for dummies although I would encourage you to do some self learning b/c you obviously need it. I worked in accounting/finance while going to school at night for my MBA.

Where did I say that taxes where the only thing that needed to be addressed? I have said the complete opposite as a matter of fact.

Fact of the matter is the US is the biggest economy in the world. If the govt wants to make it where those businesses that operate in the US have an advantage economically over those that dont they could do it without much negative effect.

Companies are vying for our citizens business
[/quote]

The US is currently the largest economy in the world but won't be for long.

You have no real idea what is going in in Asia. Not your fault because you probably have no cause to come out here. Fact of the matter is your manufacturing and service jobs are relocating to this side of the world. Your government is powerless to do anything about it. It's the free market in play, nothing you can do about it now but suffer the consequences.

Of course, if you are willing to pay people slave rates, employ children, give workers unsafe places to work with no recourse if they get hurt, to have companies that pollute with impunity, then you will be able to compete. As it is - you simply can't do it.

Of course - people want to sell to America. The US is a consumer culture, add another inch to the size of a TV and everyone rushes out to buy one. It's like throwing a dog a new bone when he's just started chewing the one you gave him 5 minutes earlier.  

US corporations have migrated so much wealth to Asia, that US consumers will one day be largely irrelevant.

[tonymctones]

You have no real idea what is going in in Asia. Not your fault because you probably have no cause to come out here. Fact of the matter is your manufacturing and service jobs are relocating to this side of the world. Your government is powerless to do anything about it. It's the free market in play, nothing you can do about it now but suffer the consequences.

Of course, if you are willing to pay people slave rates, employ children, give workers unsafe places to work with no recourse if they get hurt, to have companies that pollute with impunity, then you will be able to compete. As it is - you simply can't do it.

Of course - people want to sell to America. The US is a consumer culture, add another inch to the size of a TV and everyone rushes out to buy one. It's like throwing a dog a new bone when he's just started chewing the one you gave him 5 minutes earlier. 

US corporations have migrated so much wealth to Asia, that US consumers will one day be largely irrelevant.

fucking A youre a delusional idiot

you just proved my point dumb ass

[blacken700]

Quote from: LurkerNoMore
Good luck with that. He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.

Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him.  Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it. 
 
that is a great quote,fits tonymctones   a tee   
 
 

[RRKore]

fucking A youre a delusional idiot

you just proved my point dumb ass

Tony, pedro1 is not a delusional idiot and neither are you.  You're just a little inexperienced compared to him.  You'd do well to listen a little more carefully to the things he's saying and, if what he's saying doesn't make sense to you, just ask him questions.  

The kind of system you argue for (somewhat idealistically), he SEES, firsthand, everyday in Thailand.  There's no welfare in Thailand.  You can starve in the street there and those without some kind of non-gov't help do just that.

Open your eyes a little, man.  You don't need to change your fundamental beliefs but I think you'd be smart to listen to this guy.  Basically, his life experience seems to be much, much, much more broad than yours and, even knowing what little I know about the both of you, I'll bet he knows a lot of shit that would be helpful to you.

Actually, I'm surprised you are arguing with him at all.  You and a couple others here, in response to folks complaining about pay for available work, are saying, "Well MOVE then!" and pedro1 is a guy who has successfully done just that.  

You know, it doesn't necessarily mean he's happier than you but I'll bet you a zillion dollars that pedro1's lifestyle in Thailand makes yours in Texas look, uh (and I'll try to be accurate without insult here), unsatisfying.

[RRKore]

Quote from: LurkerNoMore
Good luck with that. He overcompensates by trying to string buzz words together in an attempt to sound witty and knowledgeable which in reality leaves any argument or stance of his with a bigger gap in it than there was before.

Particularly amusing is his habit of trying to reverse your statement back in the form of a rhetorical question in the hopes that you will make his argument for him.  Since he isn't exactly sure of what he is trying to say or how to convey it. 
 
that is a great quote,fits tonymctones   a tee   
 

Fuckin' yikes!! Note to self:  Don't get into it with LurkerNoMore!!

[2Thick]

So you DON'T think the politicians we elect work for us? You think it's the other way around?

You DON'T think the govt is too big?

You DON'T think you can make your own decisions and care for yourself better than some govt hacks who don't give a shit about you can?

You DON'T believe in states' rights?

These are the exact things I said I support in my post you quoted, and you are saying that I'm a "Fox Sheep" for supporting exactly what the Founding Fathers supported.

Please explain further.

The FOX New's sheep have spoken.

It is quite amusing to read some of the posts on Getbig which are pretty much verbatim what FOX News reports all day and all night long.

Keith Rupert Murdoch is the owner of FOX News.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Murdoch

[2Thick]

I write, call, and talk to my elected officials in person fairly often. Sometimes they help me out, sometimes they can't. And I ALWAYS vote.

But they work FOR me.

And again, the government is FAR too big and intrusive these days, something that some elected officials actually recognize.

I think it is time for you to log off. Your posts are bordering on the ridiculous at this point. No one made the comparison you suggested here. One thing has virtually nothing to do with the other.

What I find all to often is that the folks who do the most griping about big government or just government in general, take no active stance to change what they don't like. In fact, many don't even bother to vote and often they are the very people who are the most vocal about election results. Seems pretty stupid to me.

[2Thick]

Here they've only been using the IRS to audit us, and they've also occasionally tried to put a few members of the media in jail so far - I guess they're a few years away from making peaceful protest a capital crime. 

Ever notice how sensitive the POTUS seems to be to criticism or any dissenting opinion?

You speak of the U.S. government as if it were some dictatorship. Government in the U.S. is a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Nothing happens without our input at some point. If you don't like the way government is operating, lobby and vote to change it. There are many places around the world where this is not a possibility without risking death. Think about that.

[2Thick]

If you don't like Walmart or don't approve of their perfectly legal practices you see as being unethical or whatever, don't shop there or work there.

You cannot expect businesses to be forced to cut out a larger and larger piece of the pie for workers' wages and salaries at the expense of profit.

I mentioned previously that I rarely shop at Walmart myself. I usually prefer to go to the stores that have less crowded parking lots, smaller  and cleaner stores, higher quality employees, much higher quality meats and seafood, etc. And I'm willing to pay for these things.

But Walmart's base is the shopper who is strictly looking for everything under one roof and ESPECIALLY at the lowest price... and is willing to fight heavy shopping center traffic, wait a while for a parking spot or walk a great distance, walk all over a large warehouse-like building to find what they need, not need much in the way of employee assistance (such as cutting, slicing, or grinding fresh meats), and be able to wait in line for 15 minutes or more at one of only a half dozen open registers (of 3 dozen or more total), etc.

[Primemuscle]

In the US, what sort of education can you get if you currently earn $2 an hour? None, right? If you are broke, how do you get the funds to relocate? 

Getting into debt with banks to give a ludicrous sum of money to a educational establishment so you can get a paper that says you are smart? Fuck that nonsense.

Why is it that people look down on others that have no education or are not academically talented? What is wrong with a hard working family man who is honest and caring but short in school smarts earning a decent wage with his hands?

Isn't America built on the work of people like that? Now they are 'not qualified'?

People talk about education being the be all end all if you want to make a decent living. They say this because this is what they've been told. I have nothing against people becoming better educated, but a good education does not guarantee one will make better wages.  Ambition plays a much bigger role in success than anything else. Without ambition, education may not get you anywhere unless you just happen to hit the employment jackpot which is about as likely as winning the lottery.

[Primemuscle]

I would never in a trillion years be in the position of having kids and working in a supermarket at the same time. Ever.

So I really never thought about it.

You think this could never happen, but it does and could to you as well.

[2Thick]

Education is somewhat overrated IMO. I'm all about the $. I don't care about intellectual masturbation, spiritual enlightenment, or trying to impress people with a bunch of fancy credentials.

[Primemuscle]

So you DON'T think the politicians we elect work for us? You think it's the other way around?

You DON'T think the govt is too big?

You DON'T think you can make your own decisions and care for yourself better than some govt hacks who don't give a shit about you can?

You DON'T believe in states' rights?

These are the exact things I said I support in my post you quoted, and you are saying that I'm a "Fox Sheep" for supporting exactly what the Founding Fathers supported.

Please explain further.

Ah yes, the Founding Father's line. As if the U.S. is the same country it was in 1776.

And you don't see how you echo the concepts of FOX News? Hmm. Strange.

By the way, you might want to reread your post I quoted....your rewrite of it is, well, just a tad off.

[2Thick]

Ah yes, the Founding Father's line. As if the U.S. is the same country it was in 1776.

And you don't see how you echo the concepts of FOX News? Hmm. Strange.

By the way, you might want to reread your post I quoted....your rewrite of it is, well, just a tad off.

*EDIT: "Fox News SHEEP" is what you called me...


You told me I was a Fox mark for what I posted. I asked you specifically about what of each of those things make me such.

Now you're saying that anyone who believes in what the Founding Fathers believed is also a Fox mark. And you're also implying that if Fox agrees with it or promotes it, it's a negative thing, correct? The US WAS much the same country for 200+ years, but is certainly "changing" in recent years.


I'll ask you specifically what you disagree with that the Fouding Fathers put in place and why?