Stand Your Ground Law's Latest Victim

[OzmO]

if we apply the knowledge gained after the fact he was never in imminent danger of death or bodily injury.

NOT THAT IT MATTERS B/C THATS NOT THE STANDARD OF LAW, BUT IF YOU WANT TO TRY AND SAY IT IS GO AHEAD.

To many articles and posts including numerous ones in this thread that specifically say otherwise but if you want to believe it go ahead bro.

We are not applying knowledge gained after the fact.

Are you a reasonable man tony?

Do you believe yourself to be in imminent danger, danger death or bodily injury enough to justify you shooting a person who is knocking at your door at 4am and jiggling the handle?

Ask you self the same question if you go outside and leave your wife Alone

Ask you self the same question If a that man doesn't answer you and starts walking towards keeping in mind you don't see a weapon in hand and he never tried to force entry.

And keep in mind as reasonable person, if you are  ,  you already stated you would have stayed inside.

[240 is Back]

The man didn't fear for his life.  Yes, I wasn't there.  But if any of us has to bet the rent, we'd probably believe he was a lot of things - angry, scared, confused, frustrated - but "fear for his life", no, probably not.


I still haven't heard anyone give the justification for why he shot. 

Forcible felony?  No.
Fear for his life?  No.
Entering home/castle doctrine?  Nope, that shit sailed... dude left porch and had gotten to side yard.
Stand your ground?  Oh goodness no, he was walking away and dude had to walk from porch to side yard to confront.


Guys - What is the legal reason for capping this guy?

[Dos Equis]

We are not applying knowledge gained after the fact.

Are you a reasonable man tony?

Do you believe yourself to be in imminent danger, danger death or bodily injury enough to justify you shooting a person who is knocking at your door at 4am and jiggling the handle?

Ask you self the same question if you go outside and leave your wife Alone

Ask you self the same question If a that man doesn't answer you and starts walking towards keeping in mind you don't see a weapon in hand and he never tried to force entry.

And keep in mind as reasonable person, if you are  ,  you already stated you would have stayed inside.

Tony has it right in this thread. 

Yes, I think if a strange man shows up my door, threatening my wife, and a couple weeks later someone shows up at my house at 4 a.m. and twice tries to open my front door, my wife is terrified, the police don't immediately arrive, and the man approaches me, on my property, and fails to respond to commands, I would consider myself in imminent danger, sufficient to use deadly force. 

Even without their recent history (someone showing up at their house looking for the fiancé), it's reasonable to assume someone who shows up at your house at 4 a.m. and twice tries to open your front door has bad intentions.  It's also reasonable to assume the person might be on drugs. 

There is more than one reasonable response.  Staying in the house and waiting for the police would have been reasonable.  Opening your own front door, and stepping out onto your own property is also reasonable. 

[OzmO]

No becuase if you truley feel you are danger then you stay in the house where it is safe.  Where there is no forced entry. 

You both have it wrong

[Dos Equis]

No becuase if you truley feel you are danger then you stay in the house where it is safe.  Where there is no forced entry. 

You both have it wrong

Or if the police take 16 minutes to arrive, and someone tries to enter your house both before and after you call 911, and your previously threatened fiancé is terrified, you leave your house and step out onto your own property to protect your fiancé.  Both staying inside and leaving the house were reasonable responses. 

[240 is Back]

if the shoot wasn't legal after 1 minute, it wasn't legal after 16 minutes.

This argument of "justifiable fatigue" is laughable.

I keep hearing all these reasons trying to excuse it - But someone else knocked on his door, but he was new in neighborhood, but he was tired  of waiting for police...it's weak soup. 

This dude was scared but shot when he really didn't have to - can we alll agree on that?

[blacken700]

the shooter fucked up, he knows it and everyone on here knows it.he was crying like a baby when he found out what he did.

[240 is Back]

the shooter fucked up, he knows it and everyone on here knows it.he was crying like a baby when he found out what he did.

was he really crying afterwards?  Can't blame him.  My brother shot a dude and handled all the interviews that night... walked next door and puked for about a minute straight.  Can't predict how it'll hit people. 

Sounds like he was tired of waiting for police, tired of someone bothering them.  Tired of feeling helpless.  he wanted to take the power back.

I'm sure it's been a nightmare for him.  But it's also a nightmare for the family of the old man who was shot for being lost in someone else's yard. 

[Jack T. Cross]

Oz and 240 have done a good job, and have made me think about it, hard, but it's tough to ask the person not to be scared. The fact that he's on his own property, in the middle of the night, really casts things in his favor. Perhaps he's a squirrel of a man, or maybe he was anxious to "prove" himself to his girl, I don't know. But this should teach everyone to keep their loved ones close.

Still would be VERY INTERESTING to know what he said during the process, and what he's said, since.

[Dos Equis]

the shooter fucked up, he knows it and everyone on here knows it.he was crying like a baby when he found out what he did.

He was crying because he shot a defenseless elderly man with Alzheimer's.  He'd probably be a sociopath if he wasn't emotional after finding who the guy was.  

But none of that has anything to do with his state of mind when he pulled the trigger.  

[240 is Back]

Still would be VERY INTERESTING to know what he said during the process, and what he's said, since.

Yes!

1) was there an ounce of anger/punishment/taking law into his own hands, when he left to go outside?

2) were there any contradictions in his story in the interviews that followed, or did he lawyer up?

[blacken700]

He was crying because he shot a defenseless elderly man with Alzheimer's.  He'd probably be a sociopath if he wasn't emotional after finding who the guy was.  

But none of that has anything to do with his state of mind when he pulled the trigger.  

your right that's exactly what he did,now you have to pay the consequences

[Dos Equis]

your right that's exactly what he did

As if that was ever a question.  After the fact. 

[blacken700]

what,s funny is all the gun nuts come and back this idiot,then it's actions from idiots like him that get gun laws changed . then the all cry 

[240 is Back]

You can be a car lover - but be very much against street drag racing.

You can be a gun lover - but be very much against reckless gun use.

There's a word... Hendrix was reckless.  Emotion and a lack of logic made him run into a gunfight instead of just waiting for the police.  The arguments used to justify it almost seem far-left liberal.  "He was scared, maybe the old man was looking for another window, the police were too slow..."  total libtalk lol.

[Jack T. Cross]

BTW, 240, I liked that statement similar to "fear keeps him inside, anger puts him outside". Nice little bite to it.

[OzmO]

Or if the police take 16 minutes to arrive, and someone tries to enter your house both before and after you call 911, and your previously threatened fiancé is terrified, you leave your house and step out onto your own property to protect your fiancé.  Both staying inside and leaving the house were reasonable responses. 

Not in the context of being scared enough to use justifiable force.  Like 240 said, fear keeps you inside and anger puts you outside. 


Just a note, to be clear i never said he wSnt or shouldnt be scared.  Its a matter of degree and what a reasonable person would do.   

[240 is Back]

Not in the context of being scared enough to use justifiable force.  Like 240 said, fear keeps you inside and anger puts you outside.  
Just a note, to be clear i never said he wSnt or shouldnt be scared.  Its a matter of degree and what a reasonable person would do.  

I can't wait to hear the 911 tape and interviews.  

I bet it went from "I can shoot him on my property, right?" the first night, to "I feared for my life and he made a sudden move and it looked like a weapon and I fired to protect myself" the next morning after talking to his lawyer lol.

[tonymctones]

Not in the context of being scared enough to use justifiable force.  Like 240 said, fear keeps you inside and anger puts you outside.  


Just a note, to be clear i never said he wSnt or shouldnt be scared.  Its a matter of degree and what a reasonable person would do.  

What you and 240 refuse to acknowledge is its not if he was in fear of bodily harm when he left the house

[Dos Equis]

Not in the context of being scared enough to use justifiable force.  Like 240 said, fear keeps you inside and anger puts you outside.  


Just a note, to be clear i never said he wSnt or shouldnt be scared.  Its a matter of degree and what a reasonable person would do.  

I disagree.  You can be afraid and still take steps to protect your family, which could include stepping out on your own property.  Being afraid doesn't mean you have to cower in the corner.  

By the same taken, leaving the house doesn't show the guy was angry.  That's just an invented "fact."  

[Jack T. Cross]

I disagree.  You can be afraid and still take steps to protect your family, which could include stepping out on your own property.  Being afraid doesn't mean you have to cower in the corner.  

By the same taken, leaving the house doesn't show the guy was angry.  That's just an invented "fact."  

To be fair, without anything else attached to it, I'd have to agree that it doesn't necessarily show anger.

[OzmO]

I disagree.  You can be afraid and still take steps to protect your family, which could include stepping out on your own property.  Being afraid doesn't mean you have to cower in the corner.  

By the same taken, leaving the house doesn't show the guy was angry.  That's just an invented "fact."  

It suggests that he wasnt afraid of imminent death or danger.  Thqt he felt his wife would be safe enough in the home alone which in turn means he felt safe enough too. 


I agree about the anger thing.  It just sounds good, but it also suggests that him being afrAid isnt a fact either

[OzmO]

What you and 240 refuse to acknowledge is its not if he was in fear of bodily harm when he left the house

How do you figure?

[tonymctones]

We are not applying knowledge gained after the fact.

Are you a reasonable man tony?

Do you believe yourself to be in imminent danger, danger death or bodily injury enough to justify you shooting a person who is knocking at your door at 4am and jiggling the handle?

Ask you self the same question if you go outside and leave your wife Alone

Ask you self the same question If a that man doesn't answer you and starts walking towards keeping in mind you don't see a weapon in hand and he never tried to force entry.

And keep in mind as reasonable person, if you are  ,  you already stated you would have stayed inside.

I personally would not have gone outside but as it was legal to go outside that is not part of what will be put up to the reasonable person standard.

Ive explained this to you numerous times but it still is eluding you somehow.

[tonymctones]

How do you figure?

b/c all of the components of the shooting were not present when he went outside.

They are two seperate acts even though I know you want to believe they are the same. If the old man was still at the door and he opened it and shot him then you could argue that he didnt fear that bodily injury was imminent.

Fact is at the time he went outside he didnt have to be afraid of bodily injury b/c there was nobody for him to perceive bodily injury from....

I answered your question now you answer mine Oz, you are in the same situation and your outside (FOR WHATEVER REASON). You come up on a guy with two dogs one of which is a rotti. You tell him to identify himself and he doesnt, instead he begins walking toward you.

Do you think it reasonable to feel that the person has bad intent?