i'm questioning the theory of long low dose cycles over short high dose cycles

[almard]

ya bro i used to run 2g cycles all the time. my favourite being 7 and 7- 700mg tren ace/700mg prop and an oral of my liking typically anavar.

all this year i never went over 750mg of combined aa's. at the same time i trpiled my workout frequency. my gains have been better than when i was using 2g cycles, stuffing myself all the time and only training my whole body once a week.

this month i have bumped it up to 1600mg combined im in week 4 right now of this experiment ive got 4 left. my cals are only 1600 a day, some days low as 1000. protein is maybe 125-150 like i said. and im growing like a fucking weed over here.

honestly i say its all in the increased frequency of my sessions. upping the dose and not giving the body the stimulus necessary to repair and grow will get you no results. the body will utilise what little cals you give it efficiently. would i be making these gains on the same amount of anabolics, the same cals, and only training everything once a week. no. i dont think so. i did that for years and got nowhere.

the guys here know me. they know i dont bullshit or inflate the truth. i have no vested interest in saying anything like this other than to help you guys get gaining. up the frequency of your sessions. get your body used to the volume. it'll take porlly a good 3-4 weeks. once your get it adapting up your dose and watch the growth. typically even if you up the dose results appear to be very marginal. thats cause the workload isnt there. i honestly think guys could make as much in the way of gains by cutting their doses down, and increasing their workload. you want to make crazy gains, up the dose and the workload.  you dont even need to up it a lot- i less than doubled what i was running this year, but am still well under the 2g mark i normally ran, and i can promise you im bigger and better condidtioned than most guys running nosebleed digits. and imo i have shit genetics.

Thanks bro. Respect

[macos]

[quote author=galeniko link=topic=508305.msg7189938#msg7189938 daetics for this.

i seen it all, i seen the guys on gramms of pharmacy test,on the most expenisve gh sdtraight from hospitals, insulin, i seen them and their results.

the real big guys arent the ones on most gear,theyre just the most consistent.

in almost all gyms many do cycles and stuf and they look like first time in the gym.

[/quote]l

Being consistent is an unwritten golden embossed rule that most guys forget.

[Rascal full]

I have made so many mistakes it is ridiculous. When I did my first cycle I expected to grow using a quarter of the intensity of when natural. I really took my foot off the gas expecting the drugs to make up the difference. They did to an extent but not as much as I expected. So I upped the dose! Big rookie error and it made no difference. Utilizing the drugs with consistent and progressive training is when it clicked in my head. Dose came down and training intensity went up. Results finally!

[a_pupil]

thread turned out great. good info 

[Christo]

this is my shoulder workout.

dbell shoulder press 8reps rest 5 seconds 8 reps rest 5 seconds 8 reps

side laterals same way

rear delts same way

front raise same way

repeat cycle 2-3 times.

Ok. it means you are not using the pyramid system? but you start with a heavy weight?

[no one]

ESF is right on spot there talking about diet and aas ratio and the effect.

Any guy can be a freak. Even the worsr generics will respond amazingly to grams of gear and peptides. Genetics is only an excuse when you do not know what to do to make yourself better than what you were.
You need intense training+ quality nutrition+ adequate rest+ the correct enhancers to make progress. If you have stalled lately, stop being a pussy blaming genetics and re-evaluate where possibly you are going wrong and what adjustments you need to make to achieve your goal.

intense training? bullshit. I'm the laziest trainer going. I chase the pump. I don't lift heavy.

quality nutrition? bullshit. the bulk of my daily cals is ice cream and potato chips and chicken breast. think this is a joke? it is not. you think your body partitions cals differently given a deficit or a surplus? think again. in a deficit it will use every cal efficiently carbs fats for fuel protein for regeneration. in a surplus your going to get fat no matter what you eat cause your body can't utilize the cals anyway.

adequate rest? bullshit. I train each body part evey 48 hours.

your post sounds more like an article out of muscle and fitness and less based on any actual experience. I'm not bagging on you cause for years I drank the koolaid just like you do. then I got wise realised it's all bullshit.

re read what I wrote. this isn't fucking rocket science no matter how much you need to believe it is.

[galeniko]

yah, it seems the more rest i get,the less full and hard i look.

quality nitrition is very vague term

[Oly15]

ya bro i used to run 2g cycles all the time. my favourite being 7 and 7- 700mg tren ace/700mg prop and an oral of my liking typically anavar.

all this year i never went over 750mg of combined aa's. at the same time i trpiled my workout frequency. my gains have been better than when i was using 2g cycles, stuffing myself all the time and only training my whole body once a week.

this month i have bumped it up to 1600mg combined im in week 4 right now of this experiment ive got 4 left. my cals are only 1600 a day, some days low as 1000. protein is maybe 125-150 like i said. and im growing like a fucking weed over here.

honestly i say its all in the increased frequency of my sessions. upping the dose and not giving the body the stimulus necessary to repair and grow will get you no results. the body will utilise what little cals you give it efficiently. would i be making these gains on the same amount of anabolics, the same cals, and only training everything once a week. no. i dont think so. i did that for years and got nowhere.

the guys here know me. they know i dont bullshit or inflate the truth. i have no vested interest in saying anything like this other than to help you guys get gaining. up the frequency of your sessions. get your body used to the volume. it'll take porlly a good 3-4 weeks. once your get it adapting up your dose and watch the growth. typically even if you up the dose results appear to be very marginal. thats cause the workload isnt there. i honestly think guys could make as much in the way of gains by cutting their doses down, and increasing their workload. you want to make crazy gains, up the dose and the workload.  you dont even need to up it a lot- i less than doubled what i was running this year, but am still well under the 2g mark i normally ran, and i can promise you im bigger and better condidtioned than most guys running nosebleed digits. and imo i have shit genetics.

Bingo.

You're training the same way Arnold and all the top guys from the 70's trained. The reason they looked so much better and had much more dense quality muscle than the guys today is because they fed the drugs by training with high volume and high frequency. Guys today take exponentially more drugs than back then and even come contest time most look like water buffalos

[oni]

For me, "rest" is different to not training. That's not "rest", it's apathy and procrastination. I get my best results training full body 6 days a week. Granted, I'm not a bodybuilder so I might be talking out my ass here but for strength it works well. I don't really seem to have a problem with gaining muscle mass. I don't see why the rules would change simply because you're trying to get stronger with reps

[Christo]

this is my shoulder workout.

dbell shoulder press 8reps rest 5 seconds 8 reps rest 5 seconds 8 reps

side laterals same way

rear delts same way

front raise same way

repeat cycle 2-3 times.

Can you please explain: so you are doing first one exercise which includes 3 sets. after that you do the second excercise and when you have done the last excercise you start again with the first excercise?

Please let me know because i have a lot of intrest in this system!

Thanks in advance

[anabolichalo]

it's true but a lot of fools dont realize how long steroids already exist

[no one]

Can you please explain: so you are doing first one exercise which includes 3 sets. after that you do the second excercise and when you have done the last excercise you start again with the first excercise?

Please let me know because i have a lot of intrest in this system!

Thanks in advance

bro I'm not going to give you my system. not because I'm being a dick, but because I want you to figure out what works best for you. what I do won't work for you.

I can't explain what I do cause every workout I do is different. different exercises different rep schemes different poundages there is nothing I do in the gym that is the same from session to session. all that is the same is the rotation and even some days that changes. I'll leave a body part out that I feel is not ready to go, or I'll train the same part 2x in 24 hours.

forget about everything you have ever read learned or were told. go in the gym and just listen to your body. some days I'll do 8 sets if pulldowns for me back cause that's what's giving me a killer pump and I have a really good connection. some days I'll do one set and be like fuck it. not today.

there is no set routine bro. pick a body part and just start to train it not according to what your supposed to do, but according to how what your doing feels.

[no one]

yah, it seems the more rest i get,the less full and hard i look.

quality nitrition is very vague term

what is 'quality nutrition' lol

this is a pet peeve of mine cause every body reguritates the same wrong useless bullshit.

so my body knows the difference between a calorie? oh wait this is a BAD CALORIE. I'm going to store it as fat. oh here is a GOOD CALORIE. ok I'll use this for fuel.

same thing w protein. oh wait this is an egg. hmmm. well maybe I'll just not utilize it properly just in case he takes in some isolate later.

gimme a fucking break.

in a deficit the type of calorie doesn't matter as it'll utilize them all efficiently for fuel. in a surplus thextypecof calorie doesn't matter cause your taking in too many calories than your body can utilize anyway. think a white potato is going to make you less fat than the same number of cals from potato chips in a surplus? hahaha fuck no. it's all going to fat. or maybe the white potato because it is a 'quality nutrient' magically gets used differently by the body.

all you need to know is this. protein builds muscle. not carbs. not fat. protein. take in enough protein to promote growth and it doesn't fucking matter where the remainder of your cals come from. the ONLY time it matters is when your trying to get from 5 to 4%.

then I believe insulin release plays a role. but until that point, which 99.9% of dedicated weight trainers will never see it doesn't fucking matter.

see all those fat permabulkers in your gym? they believe in 'quality nutrition'. and they are all FAT. ask yourselves why this is. after all they're eating 'quality' calories right?

QUALITY CALORIES WILL MAKE YOU JUST AS FAT AS ICE CREAM AND PIZZA.

so please PLEASE tell me, I'm dying to know, if we know that the only nutrient that creates lean tissue is protein WHAT THE FUCK DOES IT MATTER what the rest of your cals come from.

keep drinking the koolaid kids. while your struggling to break 6-7% with your quality nutrients I'll be eating ice cream and pizza EVERY FUCKING DAY.

/ rant.

[anabolichalo]

true

i eat pizza pancake french fries all the time


i just dont eat obscene amounts


and i'm lean all the time


 

[macos]

it's true but a lot of fools dont realize how long steroids already exist

True. Man has been eating crushed balls of cattle for a long time.
 Not very recently though 

[oni]

I think if you're looking to keep fat under control, spiking insulin then eating fats is a bad idea. You simply can't justify deep frying something then wedging it in a bun.
Now clearly it's as simple as not eating a lot of it, but why would you eat a burger and fries for 1500kcal when you can eat a lot of meat, starches and veg and be very full

[anabolichalo]

I think if you're looking to keep fat under control, spiking insulin then eating fats is a bad idea. You simply can't justify deep frying something then wedging it in a bun.
Now clearly it's as simple as not eating a lot of it, but why would you eat a burger and fries for 1500kcal when you can eat a lot of meat, starches and veg and be very full

reality is this shit dont matter


a calori is a calori

a protein is a protein

a steroid is a steroid

[dj181]

quality nutrition? bullshit. the bulk of my daily cals is ice cream and potato chips and chicken breast. think this is a joke? it is not. you think your body partitions cals differently given a deficit or a surplus? think again. in a deficit it will use every cal efficiently carbs fats for fuel protein for regeneration. in a surplus your going to get fat no matter what you eat cause your body can't utilize the cals anyway.

i've been saying this for years dude, but nobody listened

[oni]

reality is this shit dont matter


a calori is a calori

a protein is a protein

a steroid is a steroid

Going to have to disagree there. 3500kcal in fast food gave me a large amount of visceral fat. 2,500kcal keto/paleo diet and I am growing more than ever and visceral fat is going down. I think there are certainly fats that are more lipogenic than others. Human adipose tissue has different ratios of saturated, mono and poly unsaturated fats and when you diet down it's been shown that the body prefers to use the saturated fats first. Sticking to mainly saturated fats + omega3 I am looking better than ever

[anabolichalo]

Going to have to disagree there. 3500kcal in fast food gave me a large amount of visceral fat. 2,500kcal keto/paleo diet and I am growing more than ever and visceral fat is going down. I think there are certainly fats that are more lipogenic than others. Human adipose tissue has different ratios of saturated, mono and poly unsaturated fats and when you diet down it's been shown that the body prefers to use the saturated fats first. Sticking to mainly saturated fats + omega3 I am looking better than ever

you are eating less and therefor losing fat


you are training and or juicing harder and therefor gaining muscle

ok

still doesnt prove ur theory


but maybe

i cant disprove either so


i say common sense is the way to go

[oni]

If it works, it works
I definitely grow more from eating less on a keto diet though

[Big Chiro Flex]

Going to have to disagree there. 3500kcal in fast food gave me a large amount of visceral fat. 2,500kcal keto/paleo diet and I am growing more than ever and visceral fat is going down. I think there are certainly fats that are more lipogenic than others. Human adipose tissue has different ratios of saturated, mono and poly unsaturated fats and when you diet down it's been shown that the body prefers to use the saturated fats first. Sticking to mainly saturated fats + omega3 I am looking better than ever

Yep this is spot on.

Don't have time to pull up the studies, but higher omega 3:6 ratios will promote greater fat lass.

Lacking proper omega 3s will slow fat loss. There is something to be said for "healthy fats" even though that's kind of a stupid term. They do posess fat burning abilities through various mechanisms.

Another key component of this argument that I can't get past is the hormonal effects from various food sources. I can eat 200g a day from rice and sweet potatoes or HFCS. Which will keep me fuller all day long, keep my blood glucose more stable? Which will trigger fat storage to a greater degree? I'll take my slow digesting carbs any day over some sugar which will screw with everything and then leave me hungry and flat an hour later.

[dj181]

higher omega 3:6 ratios will promote greater fat lass.

so does that mean that it helps one to land fatter chicks

[Big Chiro Flex]

so does that mean that it helps one to land fatter chicks

Yes it will help with your goals brother.

[dj181]

Yes it will help with your goals brother.

wait a minute man, i very much prefer this to fat chicks





SLURP