The Coke Commercial

[RRKore]

No it's not.  I've been to Mexico and I've been to so-cal several times. Mexicans don't eat that kind of food.

Based on screen-names alone, I'm gonna bet that tu_holmes is more qualified than you when it comes to knowing what real Mexican food is. 

Make sense, Soldato-de-Calle4Tu?

[bears]

See, that's not how this works. You can't just wave your hand around like some kind of Jedi and convince people that these aren't the droids they're looking for.


Am I? I don't think so.



Nonsense. You can be proud of your country even if you have emigrated elsewhere. Because you can emigrate for many reasons. Perhaps you do so because your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife is from that other country; perhaps you do so because your country can't provide you the opportunities that another country can afford you in your chosen field - the job market for nuclear engineers or high-energy particle physicists; perhaps you do so because you disagree with the current political regime. And I could keep going.

You see, the problem with your position is that you assume that people emigrate from Mexico for one reason and one reason only: because they can't make a living or raise a family. While that may be true for some people, it's not true for all people; you are painting using a ridiculously broad brush and the counterexample to your silly statements is Carlos Slim

No doubt, some (large) parts of Mexico are complete clusterfucks. But, to different degrees, that's true of any country, including the United States.  
 
Now who is confusing "national" and "cultural" pride? This was never an issue, and you are bringing it up only to divert attention from your previous point. It's the equivalent of yelling: "LOOK OVER THERE! A BLUE CAR!" Don't be surprised when this strategy doesn't work.


The people who couldn't "argue" with and debunk the position you claim that your grandfather adopted.



It's silly to assume you know me, much less understand me well enough to know that I've been conditioned by anyone or that I love and adore anything "not America." But that's a typical strategy of you and your ilk, isn't it? Anytime someone disagrees with a position you hold, that person automatically doesn't love America.


And yet, somehow, all-American. Hot dogs. Beer. Football. YEAH!


Again, you are painting an entire nation with your brush. And you accuse me of "knee jerk reactions"?


Please feel free to point out any instance where I have uncritically and/or undeservedly blamed America. As a matter of fact, point out any instance where I have blamed America.

You won't, because you can't. You see, unlike you I don't blame entire countries.


Good for him - he came here seeking a better life and he, obviously, achieved it by working hard. But what's the point of telling us this? Nobody here argues that America isn't the place where hard work and effort don't pay off.


Good for him. But this isn't about cultural vs. national pride.

Again, being proud of America doesn't mean that one can't also be proud of the nation where one came from and to suggest otherwise is silly. A very good friend of mine - an academic who recently received the highest honor in his field - is a permanent resident on a path to citizenship. He emigrated here because of his wife - an American - who wanted to be close to her parents and family. He's extremely proud of the country he came from, even as he is proud of America.

You suggest, again, that this person can't be proud of both countries. I am asking you point blank: why?


Your analogy is, let's be generous and say, flawed. That aside, you keep repeating the same mantra. Just answer one simple question: What makes being proud of country X mutually exclusive with being proud of the United States?

jesus H Christ!  how long did this take you to write?  I ain't reading all that shit. 

i just find it funny that people like you will criticize America at the drop of a hat but will never dare speak ill of a country like Mexico, whose people are emigrating here in droves of hundreds of thousands every year, because you know, Mexico's awesome.  you're a fucking walking cliché.  and you obviously aren't able to process the difference between cultural and national pride because you have the IQ of a poodle.

[bears]

Nonsense. You can be proud of your country even if you have emigrated elsewhere. Because you can emigrate for many reasons. Perhaps you do so because your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife is from that other country; perhaps you do so because your country can't provide you the opportunities that another country can afford you in your chosen field - the job market for nuclear engineers or high-energy particle physicists; perhaps you do so because you disagree with the current political regime. And I could keep going.

its ridiculous that you're sitting here trying to say that "some people" emigrate from Mexico because America afford them more opportunity.  No.  99% of them do.  You're sitting here trying to paint a picture of the 1% being the norm, because TV has taught you to drop trow for anything that's not America.  quit being such a fucking lemming.

you seriously don't think America has a legitimate beef with Mexico because they can't get their shit together?  fuckin ridiculous.

[avxo]

jesus H Christ!  how long did this take you to write?  I ain't reading all that shit. 

i just find it funny that people like you will criticize America at the drop of a hat but will never dare speak ill of a country like Mexico, whose people are emigrating here in droves of hundreds of thousands every year, because you know, Mexico's awesome.  you're a fucking walking cliché.  and you obviously aren't able to process the difference between cultural and national pride because you have the IQ of a poodle.

It took about two minutes. It may take you ten to read - as it seems that reading and reading comprehension are particularly difficult for you.

As for your assertion that I criticize America, please feel free to provide a quote of me criticizing America (as opposed to particular policies or politicians). You'll understand if I don't hold my breath.

I think that different people emigrate for different reasons, and I was speaking more generally than just Mexico. My point was that people who immigrate to the United States can still be proud of the country they came here from and their decision to come here isn't necessarily indicative that they aren't proud of their country.

[tu_holmes]

Based on screen-names alone, I'm gonna bet that tu_holmes is more qualified than you when it comes to knowing what real Mexican food is. 

Make sense, Soldato-de-Calle4Tu?

It is. By way of my grandfather.

When you head over the border like taking a trip across the state, you know a little about Mexico.

Good friend of mine used to be the nanny of one of the cartel kings.

[StreetSoldier4U]

It took about two minutes. It may take you ten to read - as it seems that reading and reading comprehension are particularly difficult for you.

As for your assertion that I criticize America, please feel free to provide a quote of me criticizing America (as opposed to particular policies or politicians). You'll understand if I don't hold my breath.

I think that different people emigrate for different reasons, and I was speaking more generally than just Mexico. My point was that people who immigrate to the United States can still be proud of the country they came here from and their decision to come here isn't necessarily indicative that they aren't proud of their country.

You're a typical liberal.  Bad mouth the country you live in while never acknowledging how shitty other countries are and how stupid the citizens of those shit holes are.  You have a need to be culturally sensitive.

[headhuntersix]

That would require him to leave the country...or if he has..outside the tourist area's. 1st world countries don't count.

[avxo]

You're a typical liberal.  Bad mouth the country you live in while never acknowledging how shitty other countries are and how stupid the citizens of those shit holes are.  You have a need to be culturally sensitive.

Again, offer evidence that I badmouthed the United States if you can. You can't and won't. You'll just keep trolling, repeating the same bullshit hoping that it will stick the same way a monkey flings feces hoping it will stick.

You think you injure me in any way? You aren't. You only reinforce that you're a troll.

[24KT]

Then make Mexico better....stay out of my country. Go to Canada...we have enough mexicans

Get real!!! Like they'd survive the cold. 
...besides, before they can make it to Canada, they have to first get into, then out of the USA.
Getting into the USA is easy enough, but its not so easy for them to get out. Your government, and your big corporations want them to stay so badly, they're giving them amnesty and even fast tracking their citizenship. 

[24KT]

All I know is that anytime I've eaten Mexican food, I've hated it. Whether it was here in Toronto, in Florida, in Texas, or Southern California, it sucked. But when I went to Mexico, I really REALLY enjoyed it.

I guess it's kind of like McDonald's french fries. When you eat them in the USA, you eat them with ketchup, and call them freedom fries or whatever Congress has decided to call them this year. When you eat them in Paris, you eat them with mayonnaise. When you eat them in Canada, you eat them with gravy and cheese curds, and you call it poutine. They are all fries, simply prepared slightly different in order to accommodate the local palate.

[tu_holmes]

All I know is that anytime I've eaten Mexican food, I've hated it. Whether it was here in Toronto, in Florida, in Texas, or Southern California, it sucked. But when I went to Mexico, I really REALLY enjoyed it.

I guess it's kind of like McDonald's french fries. When you eat them in the USA, you eat them with ketchup, and call them freedom fries or whatever Congress has decided to call them this year. When you eat them in Paris, you eat them with mayonnaise. When you eat them in Canada, you eat them with gravy and cheese curds, and you call it poutine. They are all fries, simply prepared slightly different in order to accommodate the local palate.

You do realize that McDonald's never changed the menu... They were always called "French Fries".

[tonymctones]

You do realize that McDonald's never changed the menu... They were always called "French Fries".

no she doesnt, she believes all the ignorant shit foreigners who have opinions based on the interweb.

and they wonder why we dont take them serious

[RRKore]

no she doesnt, she believes all the ignorant shit foreigners who have opinions based on the interweb.

and they wonder why we dont take them serious

Where were they referred to as "freedom fries"?  The congressional cafeteria or somewhere? 

It made news.  I was working as a waiter at the time (must have been at Applebee's, I'm ashamed to say) and some old lady asked for "freedom fries" and I didn't have a clue what she was talking about.  (When she explained it, I remember thinking she was a kook.)

[loco]

I went to school in the north of the USA, then worked in the south of the USA.  I have made many Mexican friends.  

This is what I have learned from all this.  Those who win a war, quickly forget about it, while those who lose the war, never forget about it.

I never knew about the American civil war until I moved from the north to the south of the USA.  They don't teach this stuff in Venezuela.  The northerner Americans never spoke about the civil war to me, or around me.  The southerner Americans speak of, re-enact, sing of, re-live the civil war all the time and they are proud to be southerners.

I found that the Mexicans are the same way.  All my Mexican friends did was talk about the Mexican/American war.  I don't remember the last time I heard an American speak of this war.  Mexicans learn about this in their Mexican schools and they learn to dislike the USA very much, even after they move to the USA.  

It is hard for a Mexican immigrant to be proud to be a US resident, or for a naturalized Mexican to be proud to be an American.  There are exceptions to the norm, but that's just what I've learned.  The same isn't true for immigrants from other countries, Venezuela, Chile, Philippines, Cambodia, etc.

[bears]

It took about two minutes. It may take you ten to read - as it seems that reading and reading comprehension are particularly difficult for you.

As for your assertion that I criticize America, please feel free to provide a quote of me criticizing America (as opposed to particular policies or politicians). You'll understand if I don't hold my breath.

I think that different people emigrate for different reasons, and I was speaking more generally than just Mexico. My point was that people who immigrate to the United States can still be proud of the country they came here from and their decision to come here isn't necessarily indicative that they aren't proud of their country.

OK.  I was talking about Mexico.  and so were you.  but now you're simply backpedaling because you know your argument was silly. 

and yes people emigrate from other countries here for reasons other than escaping brutal oppression and slave wages from a shitty economy.  but not Mexicans.  and yes I'm sure you can find some exceptions to the rule.  everyone can.  but Mexicans are coming here in droves not because they have similar options there.  and you know it.  you just saw some people bashing Mexico and your knee jerk reaction is to defend Mexico. 

I've seen your posts criticizing the US.  Everyone has.  and there's nothing wrong with that.  I criticize the US.  But I will also criticize countries that have to get their shit together worse than the US.  Like Mexico.  Again, TV teaches you to jump down people's throats every time you hear them criticize anyone but America.  lemming.

[Dos Equis]

jesus H Christ!  how long did this take you to write?  I ain't reading all that shit. 

 

[bears]

See, that's not how this works. You can't just wave your hand around like some kind of Jedi and convince people that these aren't the droids they're looking for.


Am I? I don't think so.



Nonsense. You can be proud of your country even if you have emigrated elsewhere. Because you can emigrate for many reasons. Perhaps you do so because your boyfriend/girlfriend/husband/wife is from that other country; perhaps you do so because your country can't provide you the opportunities that another country can afford you in your chosen field - the job market for nuclear engineers or high-energy particle physicists; perhaps you do so because you disagree with the current political regime. And I could keep going.

You see, the problem with your position is that you assume that people emigrate from Mexico for one reason and one reason only: because they can't make a living or raise a family. While that may be true for some people, it's not true for all people; you are painting using a ridiculously broad brush and the counterexample to your silly statements is Carlos Slim

No doubt, some (large) parts of Mexico are complete clusterfucks. But, to different degrees, that's true of any country, including the United States.  
 
Now who is confusing "national" and "cultural" pride? This was never an issue, and you are bringing it up only to divert attention from your previous point. It's the equivalent of yelling: "LOOK OVER THERE! A BLUE CAR!" Don't be surprised when this strategy doesn't work.


The people who couldn't "argue" with and debunk the position you claim that your grandfather adopted.



It's silly to assume you know me, much less understand me well enough to know that I've been conditioned by anyone or that I love and adore anything "not America." But that's a typical strategy of you and your ilk, isn't it? Anytime someone disagrees with a position you hold, that person automatically doesn't love America.


And yet, somehow, all-American. Hot dogs. Beer. Football. YEAH!


Again, you are painting an entire nation with your brush. And you accuse me of "knee jerk reactions"?


Please feel free to point out any instance where I have uncritically and/or undeservedly blamed America. As a matter of fact, point out any instance where I have blamed America.

You won't, because you can't. You see, unlike you I don't blame entire countries.


Good for him - he came here seeking a better life and he, obviously, achieved it by working hard. But what's the point of telling us this? Nobody here argues that America isn't the place where hard work and effort don't pay off.


Good for him. But this isn't about cultural vs. national pride.

Again, being proud of America doesn't mean that one can't also be proud of the nation where one came from and to suggest otherwise is silly. A very good friend of mine - an academic who recently received the highest honor in his field - is a permanent resident on a path to citizenship. He emigrated here because of his wife - an American - who wanted to be close to her parents and family. He's extremely proud of the country he came from, even as he is proud of America.

You suggest, again, that this person can't be proud of both countries. I am asking you point blank: why?


Your analogy is, let's be generous and say, flawed. That aside, you keep repeating the same mantra. Just answer one simple question: What makes being proud of country X mutually exclusive with being proud of the United States?

OK now I read all of it.  and just an FYI.  you also mistake being verbose with sounding intelligent.  this is simply senseless rambling to defend a ill conceived assertion.

[headhuntersix]

That response could be cut and pasted for a lot of the shit here...good job bears.

[avxo]

I will be the first to agree that verbosity doesn't equal intelligence. However, I think the inability to answer simple questions is a much better indicator of intelligence... which brings me to this: why don't you answer the simple question I posed for you?

P.S.: Is that terse enough for you?

[bears]

I will be the first to agree that verbosity doesn't equal intelligence. However, I think the inability to answer simple questions is a much better indicator of intelligence... which brings me to this: why don't you answer the simple question I posed for you?

P.S.: Is that terse enough for you?

I did.  You have selective reading comprehension.

This argument started because you took issue with my statement that the Mexicans jumping the border should have no allegiance to Mexico because of the fact that that country has not provided for its people because of the corruption that permeates all levels of society and government.  They are not jumping the border because their options over here are "slightly better".  They are coming over here because of overwhelming social injustices and enormous gaps in income inequality.  You think the US has a problem with income inequality?  We do.  We still don't even come within the same galaxy as Mexico when it comes to poverty.  not even close.  How much more do I need to tell your dumb ass?  

Your argument rested on some silly personal anecdote that hardly reflects the situation over there.  You're wrong.  Anyone reading this thread knows that.  That's why no ones agreeing with you.

So can someone be proud of a country that they do not live in and also the one that they do?  Yes.  But there's a stark difference in my mind between "emigrating" and "fleeing".  In my opinion, if you're fleeing a country, they are not worthy of your allegiance.


Article Source: http://EzineArticles.com/1165206