Solidifying (??) Gains after bulking phase....

[chetanbarokar]

well, 1lbs muscle plus 1 lbs of fat, thats hardly worth going for.

this all inst so simple ,it depends on so many things, cant even list them all.

you will literaly know how much or little it is when dieted down.

it takes time, all you can do is be on all the time, not drasticaly up the doses(what u gonna do when come down in dose,it feel like coming off gear), or coming off, huge error while trying to build yourself up, and eat enough protein, without getting too fat.

actualy, see this clown "ace" hes a good example on how slow gains are made, he hasnt made any in the last half decade.

train, inject, eat the right amount and wait.

if you listen tot he ppl who say use 5 gramms i can guarantee you youll never have a worth while physique.

put 1 guy on 250test all year, put other guy on 3 2 month cycles of 2 gramms tren and see which one is gonna look better.

1lbs muscle/week is hardly worth going for?
What do you think is the rate at which a newbie can gain muscle mass/week?
Lets say...I am on 750gm test + 500gm deca for 20 weeks with calorie surplus of 20% above maintenance, i.e. 3500 cals/week surplus = 1 pound of bodyweight gain, how much do you think will be muscle mass in this 1 pound?

[chetanbarokar]

so what about the concept to gain until you hit a certain level of bodyfat and then trying to solidify the gains and not getting any fatter?

or how about going up to 10% then dropping down to 7%, back and forth all the while striving to add solid lean muscle tissue

i know that my gains are lean muscle tissue coz my strength and training loads shot up, this doesn't happen without an increase in lean muscle tissue

As per my understanding, this is the ideal approach. Go up to 12% cut back down to 8%...rinse and repeat. This range usually is the sweet spot for body to grow optimally as far as insulin sensitivity and stuff goes. But people here have different opinions. And thats what we would like to hear.
How much should be the rate of gaining during this uphill ride with minimal fat gain is the question.

[chetanbarokar]

well, 1lbs muscle plus 1 lbs of fat, thats hardly worth going for.

this all inst so simple ,it depends on so many things, cant even list them all.

you will literaly know how much or little it is when dieted down.

it takes time, all you can do is be on all the time, not drasticaly up the doses(what u gonna do when come down in dose,it feel like coming off gear), or coming off, huge error while trying to build yourself up, and eat enough protein, without getting too fat.

actualy, see this clown "ace" hes a good example on how slow gains are made, he hasnt made any in the last half decade.

train, inject, eat the right amount and wait.

if you listen tot he ppl who say use 5 gramms i can guarantee you youll never have a worth while physique.

put 1 guy on 250test all year, put other guy on 3 2 month cycles of 2 gramms tren and see which one is gonna look better.

How do you suggest exactly shall I increase muscle mass within next couple of years? Do you suggest we shall not be in calorie surplus? Can you get me some guidelines about how much calorie surplus would be optimal for muscle gains? Eat when hungry (someone said above) just doesnt cut it for me. Lets say I am OCD in that regards and count every morsel I eat. I need to know how much cals I am eating on daily basis. Your views please.

[tstmaniac]

9% isnt bulking, its lean, I dont agree with getting fat to get big, it simply is a waste of time.

Yes I agree man.. It's much better to slowly keep adding lean quality muscle

[Ace]

As per my understanding, this is the ideal approach. Go up to 12% cut back down to 8%...rinse and repeat. This range usually is the sweet spot for body to grow optimally as far as insulin sensitivity and stuff goes. But people here have different opinions. And thats what we would like to hear.
How much should be the rate of gaining during this uphill ride with minimal fat gain is the question.

a pretty knowledgeable friend of mine said that a good goal is 1 pound of lean tissue for each 4 pounds gained (pounds gained=fat, muscle, water and "food in the gut")

i've gained 13 pounds in 17 days and i'd say that 4 pounds of it is in fact lean musle tissue, so that would be a 1 in 3 gain ratio ie. 1 lean pound gained per each 3 pounds gained

and btw, mouthstanko don't like me coz i don't follow his dieting advices LOL

anyways, i am making real quality gains, and if you're interested i'll send ya the pics to prove it

right now i'm 74 kg @ 7% and i'll end up @ 80-82 kg but leaner and tighter within 3-4 months time

[chetanbarokar]

a pretty knowledgeable friend of mine said that a good goal is 1 pound of lean tissue for each 4 pounds gained (pounds gained=fat, muscle, water and "food in the gut")

i've gained 13 pounds in 17 days and i'd say that 4 pounds of it is in fact lean musle tissue, so that would be a 1 in 3 gain ratio ie. 1 lean pound gained per each 3 pounds gained

and btw, mouthstanko don't like me coz i don't follow his dieting advices LOL

anyways, i am making real quality gains, and if you're interested i'll send ya the pics to prove it

right now i'm 74 kg @ 7% and i'll end up @ 80-82 kg but leaner and tighter within 3-4 months time

Mate....with AAS use, this ratio would turn favorable towards muscle side. I mean (I guess) half of the pounds gained could well be muscle.
You may have come across the study on ffm of sumo wrestlers.....1/3rd of the weight gained by them was muscle. And that was without drugs.
Thats why I can only guess that with AAS use, it would be greater muscle wrt fat.
But still, if I gain like 3-4lbs in a week.....ofcourse most of it would be fat. 1lbs or 2 per week would be optimal depending upon the dosages used.
Are you using AAS ace?
Yes...would definitely like to see your progress pics. That would be motivational 
What is your height buddy?

And yes, I guessed it from Galeniko's comment about you that you might have royally pissed him off somewhere before. But he pretty much knows what he is talking about when it comes to dieting. So would like to read his posts on this forum.
Peace. 

[Ace]

Mate....with AAS use, this ratio would turn favorable towards muscle side. I mean (I guess) half of the pounds gained could well be muscle.
You may have come across the study on ffm of sumo wrestlers.....1/3rd of the weight gained by them was muscle. And that was without drugs.
Thats why I can only guess that with AAS use, it would be greater muscle wrt fat.
But still, if I gain like 3-4lbs in a week.....ofcourse most of it would be fat. 1lbs or 2 per week would be optimal depending upon the dosages used.
Are you using AAS ace?
Yes...would definitely like to see your progress pics. That would be motivational 
What is your height buddy?

And yes, I guessed it from Galeniko's comment about you that you might have royally pissed him off somewhere before. But he pretty much knows what he is talking about when it comes to dieting. So would like to read his posts on this forum.
Peace. 

i'm 5'11" with tiny joints

here's me at the end of last may and my goal is to hit this same level of conditioning but to weigh bout 5-7 more kilos

[oni]

You look like you have HIV
I hope to god you haven't been injecting to achieve that.

[visualizeperfection]

You look like you have HIV
I hope to god you haven't been injecting to achieve that.

he looks like those old alcoholics you see ripped to the max in wifebeaters mising teeth.


a sort of crackhead physique if you will


i think he should up the dose big time

and include multiple doses of food per day.

Dallas buys club look.

[Ace]

You look like you have HIV
I hope to god you haven't been injecting to achieve that.

hiv with 15 and a half inch dry and shredded arms, yeah sure thing chief

i'd be willing to bet that you've never been that lean and dry in your entire lifetime

[chetanbarokar]

Ace, how much do you weigh in this pic? Its because you are taller, you are looking lanky. But ripped nonetheless.
I bet I'd look like same at the end of my diet few weeks later. I know how much pain is involved in filling a tall frame like us.
Best wishes for your bulk Ace.
How did you diet down to this leanness? Share if you dont mind.

[oni]

hiv with 15 and a half inch dry and shredded arms, yeah sure thing chief

i'd be willing to bet that you've never been that lean and dry in your entire lifetime

lol 15.5" arms at 5'11
watch out guys

nah I've never been that shredded, but pretty close. I've not needed to go all the way because I don't compete
not sure what that has to do with anything though. You're debating points with guys that have a good 20lb of size on you lol, at similar heights. Curious as to what gear you used and to see a recent pick. I don't doubt that you could gain 10lb from that in a year. But half of that in 17 days? lol what the fuck were you doing for the rest of the year? Let me guess you add in some orals and thought it was all lean tissue? 

[galeniko]

comeon filling out tall frames what kind excuse is that.

5f11 isnt tall frame.

i know ppl 6ft 5 300lbs lean.

this sport isnt for excuses, neithe ris it for the mentaly challenged like "ace"

epic stage 4 teenage aids physique right there

[Ace]

Ace, how much do you weigh in this pic? Its because you are taller, you are looking lanky. But ripped nonetheless.
I bet I'd look like same at the end of my diet few weeks later. I know how much pain is involved in filling a tall frame like us.
Best wishes for your bulk Ace.
How did you diet down to this leanness? Share if you dont mind.

i weighed all of a buck 54 ie. 70 kilos LOL

my diet was about 1600-1800 cals a day and maybe every 4th or 5th day i ate around 2200-2400

lol 15.5" arms at 5'11
watch out guys

nah I've never been that shredded, but pretty close. I've not needed to go all the way because I don't compete
not sure what that has to do with anything though. You're debating points with guys that have a good 20lb of size on you lol, at similar heights. Curious as to what gear you used and to see a recent pick. I don't doubt that you could gain 10lb from that in a year. But half of that in 17 days? lol what the fuck were you doing for the rest of the year? Let me guess you add in some orals and thought it was all lean tissue? 

yep i know that 15.5 inches ain't much but i got wee tiny wrists which are bearly 6 inches and anyone who says that frame/joint size doesn't matter with regards to having large measurements is a delusional fucking idiot

i always run low dose orals anywhere from 10 mg to 50 mg per day MAX, i'm not a bodybuilder and i don't want to weigh anymore than 80-82 kg and i just know that i can accomplish this on low dose orals

my natty PR was 76 kg @ 7-8%

i had a pretty bad shoulder injury a few years back and it is kinda what held me back for awhile, but i've rather recently completely rehabbed the fucking thing so now i can go full bore on the chest and back work

and when i say i've gained 6, it's 6 kilos not pounds

6 kilo=13.2 pounds

here's the thing... 10 pounds of only LEAN MUSCLE TISSUE is a shit load for someone like me who only has maybe 30 pounds of lean muscle tissue in that ripped pic

yeah, i weigh a buck 54 there, but take away the weight of the bones, skin, and organs then there is maybe 30 pounds of lean muscle tissue there, so when you think of a 10 pound gain in those terms then it changes things a bit

what i can't figure out is why some fellas get butthurt when i say flat out that i don't want to be "big"

it's not that serious chiefs

[nasum]

i'm 5'11" with tiny joints

here's me at the end of last may and my goal is to hit this same level of conditioning but to weigh bout 5-7 more kilos

You look like you've been cycling meth, as opposed to steroids.

[Ace]

You look like you've been cycling meth, as opposed to steroids.

spoken like a true perma bulker

10 to 1 odds you've never seen 10% let alone sub-6

[visualizeperfection]

spoken like a true perma bulker

10 to 1 odds you've never seen 10% let alone sub-6

at this impressive height of 511, do you find it hard to walk under doorways?

[galeniko]

at this impressive height of 511, do you find it hard to walk under doorways?

[oni]

Post a picture of this 6kg "gain" then
You just posted a before picture. So what, who cares. You don't want to get "too big". So what? It means nothing in this context. I don't care what your arm size or wrist size is, you're small as fuck lol. The picture shows that. 6kg of lean tissue is a large amount yes, and on that frame it would be a big difference yes, but I have no idea why you keep repeating this when you've not even shown a picture of the 6kg "gain", just the before

[visualizeperfection]

Post a picture of this 6kg "gain" then
You just posted a before picture. So what, who cares. You don't want to get "too big". So what? It means nothing in this context. I don't care what your arm size or wrist size is, you're small as fuck lol. The picture shows that. 6kg of lean tissue is a large amount yes, and on that frame it would be a big difference yes, but I have no idea why you keep repeating this when you've not even shown a picture of the 6kg "gain", just the before

im 6'5 310lbs at 6%.

just dont ask me for a picture.

[dustin]

Yep, fat as fuck and water bloated.

Naw, it's all muscle. Straight lean gains, bud.

[dustin]

i know, this isnt such great example, but its good enough.

the dead zyzz guy.

he used what 500mgs weekly, 250tren 250 sust, thats what i remmeber he claimed, seems believeable.he playe around with deca but didnt like that.

anyway, he had gained plenty of real mass, i think this eveeryone can agree upon.

he started as dj-ace-181 level, ie , a skeleton with teethpickers for arms and legs.

he developed everything nicely., even legs.

did he ever get bulky in the process?no he didnt.

sure first year of real training or on gear, one can go a little bit bulky,but then never again.

or maybe when ones already big and wants to enter the next higher weight class for competitoton for whatever reason, well yeah then some bulk will be needed,or helpfull.but keep in mind at that stage they arent fat, they dont have this baby kinda fat deposits, they are simply so littered full of water from all the steroids and gh,that it loks worse than it is.

whats a reasonable shape to be in year round?5lbs over contest weight?10?

something like coach?fucking hell, if i look at coach, no disrespect, i know imediately the diet will be a nightmare.

in conclusion, steroids give very good gains, but at the cost that diet has to be paid attention to quite strict.

I can't explain it any better. You need the gear to grow, but your training and what you eat dictate what your body composition will look like. If you eat like a slow you'll look like one. You don't have to do that. Just eat a little over maintenance and a little more protein and less carbs to balance that. If you want to get even more shredded, up the protein and scale back the carbs even more. You want to look like gal? Go even further.

The gear needs to be there, but if you don't train or eat properly then it'll be reflected to you when you look in the mirror. Sometimes you can get away with eating like shit but it's not required at all. It just wastes time when you need to cut and subsequently feel small. I never get puffy anymore. It's disgusting and I'd rather be skinnier if something's got to be picked between the two. Being skinny, you can easily blow up lean. Whereas cutting fat is miserable when you've got a lot to shed. I'd rather be lean and starve for a day if I had a bad habit for a few days.

[chetanbarokar]

I can't explain it any better. You need the gear to grow, but your training and what you eat dictate what your body composition will look like. If you eat like a slow you'll look like one. You don't have to do that. Just eat a little over maintenance and a little more protein and less carbs to balance that. If you want to get even more shredded, up the protein and scale back the carbs even more. You want to look like gal? Go even further.

The gear needs to be there, but if you don't train or eat properly then it'll be reflected to you when you look in the mirror. Sometimes you can get away with eating like shit but it's not required at all. It just wastes time when you need to cut and subsequently feel small. I never get puffy anymore. It's disgusting and I'd rather be skinnier if something's got to be picked between the two. Being skinny, you can easily blow up lean. Whereas cutting fat is miserable when you've got a lot to shed. I'd rather be lean and starve for a day if I had a bad habit for a few days.

Thanks for the post Dustin.
What is your opinion about the approach of gain up to 15% bodyfat then cut back to 8-10%...rinse and repeat?

[chetanbarokar]

comeon filling out tall frames what kind excuse is that.

5f11 isnt tall frame.

i know ppl 6ft 5 300lbs lean.

this sport isnt for excuses, neithe ris it for the mentaly challenged like "ace"

epic stage 4 teenage aids physique right there

Difficulty in filling out tall frames is written not in the context of giving excuse Gal.
Filling out tall frame is the sole purpose of this thread.
That is why I am asking and getting opinions from experts here about how to do it optimally.
Please see if you can answer my queries in previous posts.

[dustin]

Thanks for the post Dustin.
What is your opinion about the approach of gain up to 15% bodyfat then cut back to 8-10%...rinse and repeat?

I thought the writing was on the wall? Hell no. No one needs to get that fat. It doesn't do anything. If you're purely strength training then that's the only time I'd say to bloat up that big.

I wish someone sat me down as a youngin' and told me about how worthless permabulking was. It didn't help that all my scrawny friends admired my fatceps, but that's usually how it goes. After some time people lose track of things and don't realize how fat they are. 10% body fat with blurry abs is massive to me. Have to be lean at all times. I only gain 5-10lbs at a time and slowly trickle down to a lower weight again, being a couple lbs heavier and more shapely. I am not a fan of bulking up huge amounts at all.