Author Topic: God will heal your kidney failure  (Read 35070 times)

Knooger

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #25 on: March 14, 2014, 09:16:38 AM »
Bigmc striking home runs in this thread.

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #26 on: March 14, 2014, 09:50:26 AM »
you can argue the semantics

but the point is you were implying that by not having engaged in prayer their opinion is not valid

that is the only rational way to interpret what you posted

ultimately you are entitled to hold that point of view

i just think it is typical of people with religious beliefs to dismiss others points of view if they are different

where as others are expected to take what you say on "faith"

because you have no evidence

it all comes down to belief

and therefore if you believe your prayers will be answered

you will make an excuse if they arent

or if the one in a million random event you are praying for happens then you will say see i have proved my point

its a win, win situation for you

if one in a million of your prayers was answered you would argue prayers worked

never mind the millions of times they remain unanswered

which you would no doubt put down to god giving us freedom of choice etc

I just stole this whole thing for my facebook status

prayer lol,...boy thats gonna work talking to yourself asking for something to happen

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #27 on: March 14, 2014, 09:51:24 AM »
you can argue the semantics

but the point is you were implying that by not having engaged in prayer their opinion is not valid

that is the only rational way to interpret what you posted

ultimately you are entitled to hold that point of view

i just think it is typical of people with religious beliefs to dismiss others points of view if they are different

where as others are expected to take what you say on "faith"

because you have no evidence

it all comes down to belief

and therefore if you believe your prayers will be answered

you will make an excuse if they arent

or if the one in a million random event you are praying for happens then you will say see i have proved my point

its a win, win situation for you

if one in a million of your prayers was answered you would argue prayers worked

never mind the millions of times they remain unanswered

which you would no doubt put down to god giving us freedom of choice etc

I'm sorry, but what you did is pose a line of questioning based on a inference (and that’s ok).   I simply restated my initial premise (twice) and then clarified that what you inferred was not my intent….no more, no less.

I understand you want to dismiss the semantics and work from the perspective of your inferences because (as you put it)  “that’s the only rational way to interpret what I posted”; plus, you have a small audience cheering for you on so that fuels the situation.  Unfortunately your position is not an absolute, it’s an opinion.  That’s perfectly fine because as I also clarified I made no statement about dismissing opinions (again that was your inference which I clarified).  

We all have opinions, but your inference also lead  you to question the valuation of opinions and I think we can both agree that informed opinions are much more valuable than uninformed opinions.  And that leads me back to my initial premise in that we have individuals that “know” that a topic is false based on a fully, uninformed position.  Further your initial reply concluded with the notion of humility and I responded with the following (which remains unanswered):

So, respectfully, are you of the opinion that those folks that attempt to defend their faith honestly while also sharing it lovingly are lacking in humility because they have more knowledge about their faith and have proactively engaged in their faith?

Now, you’ve made a number of statements in your last post and I’m happy to deep dive into the topic of prayer if you want.  

Still, I have some posts in the following thread to open further discussion:

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476374.0

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #28 on: March 14, 2014, 09:53:30 AM »
I'm sorry, but what you did is pose a line of questioning based on a inference (and that’s ok).   I simply restated my initial premise (twice) and then clarified that what you inferred was not my intent….no more, no less.

I understand you want to dismiss the semantics and work from the perspective of your inferences because (as you put it)  “that’s the only rational way to interpret what I posted”; plus, you have a small audience cheering for you on so that fuels the situation.  Unfortunately your position is not an absolute, it’s an opinion.  That’s perfectly fine because as I also clarified I made no statement about dismissing opinions.   We all have opinions, but your inference also lead  you to question the valuation of opinions and I think we can both agree that informed opinions are much more valuable than uninformed opinions.  And that leads me back to my initial premise in that we have individuals that “know” that a topic is false based on a fully, uninformed position.  Further you initial reply concluded with the notion of humility and I responded with a  the following (which remains unanswered):

So, respectfully, are you of the opinion that those folks that attempt to defend their faith honestly while also sharing it lovingly are lacking in humility because they have more knowledge about their faith and have proactively engaged in their faith?

Now, you’ve made a number of statements in your last post and I’m happy to deep dive into the topic of prayer if you want.  

Still, I have some posts in the following thread to open further discussion:


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476374.0


aka: shoving it down peoples throats who dont give a shit

bigmc is crushing you, time to pack it in.
Prayer is a joke beyond jokes. Hey, look at me, I'm talking to absolutely no one asking for too much

Prayer: "I want the best for you as long as  I dont have to get off my ass and do anything to help"

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2014, 09:56:50 AM »
aka: shoving it down peoples throats who dont give a shit

bigmc is crushing you, time to pack it in.
Prayer is a joke beyond jokes. Hey, look at me, I'm talking to absolutely no one asking for too much

People tend cheer for whomever shares their opinion.  You don't like my words because they disagree with yours, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Further, what have I shoved down your throat NightTrain?

bigmc

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2014, 09:57:29 AM »
I'm sorry, but what you did is pose a line of questioning based on a inference (and that’s ok).   I simply restated my initial premise (twice) and then clarified that what you inferred was not my intent….no more, no less.

I understand you want to dismiss the semantics and work from the perspective of your inferences because (as you put it)  “that’s the only rational way to interpret what I posted”; plus, you have a small audience cheering for you on so that fuels the situation.  Unfortunately your position is not an absolute, it’s an opinion.  That’s perfectly fine because as I also clarified I made no statement about dismissing opinions (again that was your inference which I clarified).  

We all have opinions, but your inference also lead  you to question the valuation of opinions and I think we can both agree that informed opinions are much more valuable than uninformed opinions.  And that leads me back to my initial premise in that we have individuals that “know” that a topic is false based on a fully, uninformed position.  Further you initial reply concluded with the notion of humility and I responded with a  the following (which remains unanswered):

So, respectfully, are you of the opinion that those folks that attempt to defend their faith honestly while also sharing it lovingly are lacking in humility because they have more knowledge about their faith and have proactively engaged in their faith?

Now, you’ve made a number of statements in your last post and I’m happy to deep dive into the topic of prayer if you want.  

Still, I have some posts in the following thread to open further discussion:


http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476374.0


very articulate and well written

we both know i dont care about being cheered on that was a little cheap on your end

in many ways i envy you, your faith

it must give you comfort believing in the power of prayer

i would rather back myself than pray to a god that may or may not be willing to help

how do you define an informed opinion?

i would argue you are taking a very limited scope as to what is

i dont need to pray to voice an opinion every bit as qualified as you
T

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2014, 09:58:28 AM »
People tend cheer for whomever shares their opinion.  You don't like my words because they disagree with yours, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Further, what have I shoved down your throat NightTrain?

Im not cheering anyone on
prayer is a joke, plain and simple. Doesnt work, waste of time.

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2014, 10:02:09 AM »
 Prayer doesn’t work or do anything, for that matter, and can actually bring about more dire consequences. For me, prayer simply means that it is clasping your hands together rather than actually doing something productive for someone in need. It also means the people in need are left to fend for themselves rather than receiving the assistance that could give them relief or real answers.

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2014, 10:02:16 AM »
very articulate and well written

we both know i dont care about being cheered on that was a little cheap on your end

in many ways i envy you, your faith

it must give you comfort believing in the power of prayer

i would rather back myself than pray to a god that may or may not be willing to help

how do you define an informed opinion?

i would argue you are taking a very limited scope as to what is

i dont need to pray to voice an opinion every bit as qualified as you

And man that's why I don't dismiss your position and I continue to respond because I value you what you post (even if I disagree from time to time).  You're one of the few who will engage in an actual discussion and we've spoken together for years....that makes a ton of difference.

Many go right to ad hominems and dislike me because of my faith, but you don't do that.  I've learned that before I deep dive I want establish the point of view (as best I'm able).

bigmc

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2014, 10:06:27 AM »
And man that's why I don't dismiss your position and I continue to respond because I value you what you post (even if I disagree from time to time).  You're one of the few who will engage in an actual discussion and we've spoken together for years....that makes a ton of difference.

Many go right to ad hominems and dislike me because of my faith, but you don't do that.  I've learned that before I deep dive I want establish the point of view (as best I'm able).

cheers  :-*
T

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2014, 10:07:16 AM »
I'll pray for both of you  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2014, 10:07:21 AM »
Im not cheering anyone on
prayer is a joke, plain and simple. Doesnt work, waste of time.

I assume then you're an atheist or maybe an agnostic? 

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2014, 10:09:00 AM »
I assume then you're an atheist or maybe an agnostic?  

gimme a sec Im looking up agnostic, I dont know shit about some of this stuff

Im definitely more of this guy
ag·nos·tic
[ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2014, 10:22:32 AM »
very articulate and well written

we both know i dont care about being cheered on that was a little cheap on your end

in many ways i envy you, your faith

it must give you comfort believing in the power of prayer

i would rather back myself than pray to a god that may or may not be willing to help

how do you define an informed opinion?

i would argue you are taking a very limited scope as to what is

i dont need to pray to voice an opinion every bit as qualified as you

Now, back to your question about what I feel makes an informed opinion? 

Well, since we're working from the perspective of God and faith and prayer I'd say (and again this is my opinion as a believer) that an informed opinion goes beyond a surface reading of the bible or attendance in a church or attempts to "bottle God in the lab".  It requires proactivity via the active engagement in a faithful relationship with God.  In essence it means approaching God on his terms with an attitude of humility and a desirous heart that seeks to know his reality.  When you actively pursue God and ask that he reveal himself in your life and pray to him and ask that his will be accomplished in your life and you do so with consistency and diligence (regardless of outcome) I would say then that your opinion would be fully informed. 

God leaves that narrow gate wide open, but you must be willing to walk through it. 


NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2014, 10:29:36 AM »
MOS
prove there is a god
thats all, just physically prove it

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #40 on: March 14, 2014, 10:38:42 AM »
gimme a sec Im looking up agnostic, I dont know shit about some of this stuff

Im definitely more of this guy
ag·nos·tic
[ag-nos-tik] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as God, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience.

Ok, fair enough.  I don't condemn others for being agnostic LOL.

Have you always been an agnostic? 

NightTrain

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #41 on: March 14, 2014, 10:40:50 AM »
Ok, fair enough.  I don't condemn others for being agnostic LOL.

Have you always been an agnostic? 

yes

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #42 on: March 14, 2014, 10:43:43 AM »
MOS
prove there is a god
thats all, just physically prove it

Not a problem.  Are you willing to do your part?  Because it will require your humble, honest participation.

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #43 on: March 14, 2014, 10:45:16 AM »

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #44 on: March 14, 2014, 10:46:55 AM »
yes

Again, that's fine.  Would you help me understand how you know that prayer is false or doesn't do anything as you put it?

BigCyp

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #45 on: March 14, 2014, 10:49:56 AM »
MOS already down to the bottom of his bag of pearls, and choosing to throw the rest to the pigs in case there is a glimmer of hope, in this thread.

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #46 on: March 14, 2014, 10:54:04 AM »


I often wonder why humanity, empowered by God to maintain his ample creation, would allow portions of humanity to starve when there are resources available for the entire planet and yet we sit idle and just take pictures of these folks for National Geographic or a 20/20 segment?

We (collective humanity) have every ample resource at our fingertips provided by God to care for the entire planet and we don't do it. 

Why?

BigCyp

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2014, 10:57:33 AM »
I often wonder why humanity, empowered by God to maintain his ample creation, would allow portions of humanity to starve when there are resources available for the entire planet and yet we sit idle and just take pictures of these folks for National Geographic or a 20/20 segment? 

Great angle, I like how you have pitched that.

Another one I like is this:

Athiest: "God is an evil bastard, look at all the suffering He is allowing in xyz country"

10 mins later "Oh man what a beautiful day, don't you just love mother nature."

Man of Steel

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #48 on: March 14, 2014, 11:13:11 AM »
Great angle, I like how you have pitched that.

Another one I like is this:

Athiest: "God is an evil bastard, look at all the suffering He is allowing in xyz country"

10 mins later "Oh man what a beautiful day, don't you just love mother nature."

I always enjoy sitting in a restaurant with family or friends waiting for a table and a tv is broadcasting some horrific circumstancee in another part of the world and folks waiting for a table are shaking their heads and muttering how terrible the situation is and commenting about those "poor, poor people" and 5 minutes later are demanding a manager and gettin all red-faced because their table is another 15 minutes out and they're "starving".

Simple Simon

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Re: God will heal your kidney failure
« Reply #49 on: March 14, 2014, 11:16:47 AM »
To choose a religion and follow a path you must therefore reject all others.


Thats counter productive to a tolerant society.

That is all.