Collapse of civilisation is coming - Nasa study

[Roger Bacon]

Wait, are you saying that Hooters now hires males? I am contacting Queen Vissy asap! Him and I are going to get jobs together.

Yes, I'm currently employed there. It's incredibly demeaning 

[Nails]

Tax payer money at its finest


What did this study cost us? 200 million? 400 million?

[Roger Bacon]

The elites are the problem, they consume way more than their fair share.  Societies need to develop ways to prevent elitism from arising.  The problem is the Elites have educated the masses to support the Elites agenda. So if the elites tell the masses they are the problem, the minions lap it up.  The masses are divided and weak and too afraid to tackle their oppressors.  Revolution is inevitable, just wait until water and food become scarce for the under classes, hunger and thirst has a way of putting shit into perspective.

The problem is that the elite now consider themselves citizens of the world, a generation back they were allegiant to the country of their birth.

In the eyes of those in power, we're all Africans.  

[Shockwave]

The elites are the problem, they consume way more than their fair share.  Societies need to develop ways to prevent elitism from arising.  The problem is the Elites have educated the masses to support the Elites agenda. So if the elites tell the masses they are the problem, the minions lap it up.  The masses are divided and weak and too afraid to tackle their oppressors.  Revolution is inevitable, just wait until water and food become scarce for the under classes, hunger and thirst has a way of putting shit into perspective.

Yeah, good luck with that. Prevent elites from arising... LULZ. May as well tell rabbits to stop fucking.

Human nature, elites will rise, others will follow them. Good luck changing that. No matter what humans try, there will always be those who rise to the top through any means necessary and those that follow blindly. I don't know if you've noticed, but most people are dumb as shit and blindly go through life following whoever is in front of them/telling them what to do and believe. Thats because they need someone to follow. And those who are willing to do whatever it takes are always going to exploit the stupid/naiive/weak to get what they want.

What you're talking about is a dangerous pipedream.

[StreetSoldier4U]

If we are talking purely consumption of resources the use of resources by the underclass far exceeds the elites. 

[Shockwave]

If we are talking purely consumption of resources the use of resources by the underclass far exceeds the elites. 

It does. I'm sure he's speaking statistically on a person by person percentage.. which is irrelevant, as the underclass abuses resources to a far greater degree, and generally far more recklessly.

[Radical Plato]

Yeah, good luck with that. Prevent elites from arising... LULZ. May as well tell rabbits to stop fucking.

Human nature, elites will rise, others will follow them. Good luck changing that. No matter what humans try, there will always be those who rise to the top through any means necessary and those that follow blindly. I don't know if you've noticed, but most people are dumb as shit and blindly go through life following whoever is in front of them/telling them what to do and believe. Thats because they need someone to follow. And those who are willing to do whatever it takes are always going to exploit the stupid/naiive/weak to get what they want.

What you're talking about is a dangerous pipedream.

What we currently have is the result of a dangerous pipedream.  And once again, you think that way because of the Elites, don't you ever find it odd that the people the Elites oppress hold a worldview that is consistent with the Elites best interests?  Your thinking is the direct result of Cultural Hegemony.

[Radical Plato]

If we are talking purely consumption of resources the use of resources by the underclass far exceeds the elites. 

Not if you are talking on a per person basis.  That's the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard.

[Roger Bacon]

What we currently have is the result of a dangerous pipedream.  And once again, you think that way because of the Elites, don't you ever find it odd that the people the Elites oppress hold a worldview that is consistent with the Elites best interests?  Your thinking is the direct result of Cultural Hegemony.

How do we prevent "elitism" from rising?

A few ideas please?

[StreetSoldier4U]

What we currently have is the result of a dangerous pipedream.  And once again, you think that way because of the Elites, don't you ever find it odd that the people the Elites oppress hold a worldview that is consistent with the Elites best interests?  Your thinking is the direct result of Cultural Hegemony.

the modern elites don't care about culture.  

[Radical Plato]

How do we prevent "elitism" from rising?

A few ideas please?

The same way it was enabled to rise in the first place. FORCE

[StreetSoldier4U]

Not if you are talking on a per person basis.  That's the most ridiculous claim I have ever heard.

it's purely a numbers game.   The wealthy or as you call them the elites are smaller in numbers

[Radical Plato]

the modern elites don't care about culture.  

That's their primary interest, is the culture.  It's the thinking of the masses that concerns them the most, that's why they manipulate the culture of the society — the beliefs, explanations, perceptions, values, and mores — so that their ruling-class worldview becomes the worldview that is imposed and accepted as the cultural norm; as the universally valid dominant ideology that justifies the social, political, and economic status quo as natural, inevitable, perpetual and beneficial for everyone, rather than as artificial social construct that benefits only the ruling class

[Shockwave]

What we currently have is the result of a dangerous pipedream.  And once again, you think that way because of the Elites, don't you ever find it odd that the people the Elites oppress hold a worldview that is consistent with the Elites best interests?  Your thinking is the direct result of Cultural Hegemony.

my OBSERVATIONS are based on history and human nature, brochacho. No matter what form of goverment, no matter how things were set up, elites ALWAYS find a way to manipulate and rise to power over others, especially in areas with large populations.

Elites become elites through ruthless and sociopathic manipulation of otherwise innocent systems. Throughout history there is one constant - the ruthless will always rise over the morally strong simply because the ruthless will do whatever it takes to attain power. And the desire to attain power is embedded within human nature.

Even when the morally strong are in positions of authority, the ruthless will eventually get rid of them and take over. Whether by violence, or by cunning, it doesnt matter. The savage will always eventually overtake the civilized.

[Roger Bacon]

The same way it was enabled to rise in the first place. FORCE

So the human animal stops doing what comes natural?

Sounds likely

[Roger Bacon]

the modern elites don't care about culture.  

I think they care about culture when it comes to their society, but they certainly want to destroy ours.

[Radical Plato]

So the human animal stops doing what comes natural?

Sounds likely

I forgot who said, "What we call human nature is actually human habit", but I believe the saying in part has some merit.  It's in our human nature to find better ways of doing things. I think it undeniable that humans beings do more good when co-operating than when warring with one another, but if force is a necessary part of humanity, then it should be mobilised for the greater good, it should be used to quell opposition to anti-community type systems, to unfair and unjust systems of societal organization.  I don't pretend to know the answers, but the current system is unsustainable, how long we can hold out is another question.

[galeniko]

Meh it turned the shit in the mid seventies. The American economy was built on the world wars, without them the only thing that could and still keep the west going was "banking".

stop it.
america has best eonomy bc most enterpreneur freedoms and thats that.

they still on top,and they will become even better.

everyone barring some socialist shitholes are copying them american system.

world wars?have you read about human history?its littered with wars.

last time there was no war going on at all was 1776 i think.

and the time before that and shortly afterwards was terribly conflictual.

can say whatver youw ant abotu usa, their foreign policy is questionable yeah, the hyposcrisy of the govt too, but the economy, driven by the ppl, is the best in the world.

govt overspending ,no social system, but thats all other points.

and they,the ppl,have a good spirit,they will rise after any catastrophic event and just rebuild everything.

positive attitude, economic freedom, huge market.and now the can do fracking.nobody comes remotely close.

china is a shithole, russia has nothing except gas, the eu union as a whole maybe, but its not realy a union.

and when you have the strongest military, you can "propose" economic ideas and "advice" others to follow and keep mouth shut.

[Roger Bacon]

I forgot who said, "What we call human nature is actually human habit", but I believe the saying in part has some merit.  It's in our human nature to find better ways of doing things. I think it undeniable that humans beings do more good when co-operating than when warring with one another, but if force is a necessary part of humanity, then it should be mobilised for the greater good, it should be used to quell opposition to anti-community type systems, to unfair and unjust systems of societal organization.  I don't pretend to know the answers, but the current system is unsustainable, how long we can hold out is another question.

I think most of us in this thread are basically on the same page... We just disagree about the true underlying problem, or how to solve it.

[Radical Plato]

my OBSERVATIONS are based on history and human nature, brochacho. No matter what form of goverment, no matter how things were set up, elites ALWAYS find a way to manipulate and rise to power over others, especially in areas with large populations.

Elites become elites through ruthless and sociopathic manipulation of otherwise innocent systems. Throughout history there is one constant - the ruthless will always rise over the morally strong simply because the ruthless will do whatever it takes to attain power. And the desire to attain power is embedded within human nature.

Even when the morally strong are in positions of authority, the ruthless will eventually get rid of them and take over. Whether by violence, or by cunning, it doesnt matter. The savage will always eventually overtake the civilized.

Perhaps you are right, and that's what I fear.  Is humanity evolving into an incredibly violent species?  If being violent, ruthless and cunning is the best adaption to life, then aren't we doomed to become ever more violent and destructive?

I remember a study done years ago by Robert Sapolsky about a troop of baboons.  here is a little bit about their study and findings:

Biologists Robert Sapolsky and Lisa Share have followed a troop of wild baboons in Kenya for over 20 years, starting in 1978.  Sapolsky and Share called them “The Garbage Dump Troop” because they got much of their food from a garbage pit at a tourist lodge.  But not every baboon was allowed to eat from the pit in the early 1980s:  The aggressive, high status males in the troop refused to allow lower status males, or any females, to eat the garbage. Between 1983 and 1986, infected meat from the dump led to the deaths of 46% of the adult males in the troop. The biggest and meanest males died off.  As in other baboon troops studied, before they died, these top-ranking males routinely bit, bullied, and chased males of similar and lower status, and occasionally directed their aggression at females.

But when the top ranking males died-off in the mid-1980s, aggression by the (new) top baboons dropped dramatically, with most aggression occurring between baboons of similar rank, and little of it directed toward lower-status males, and none at all directed at females. Troop members also spent a larger percentage of the time grooming, sat closer together than in the past, and hormone samples indicated that the lowest status males experienced less stress than underlings in other baboon troops. Most interestingly, these effects persisted at least through the late 1990’s, well after all the original “kinder” males had died-off.  Not only that, when adolescent males who grew up in other troops joined the “Garbage Dump Troop,” they too engaged in less aggressive behavior than in other baboon troops.  As Sapolsky put it “We don’t understand the mechanism of transmission… but the jerky new guys are obviously learning: We don’t do things like that around here.”  So, at least by baboon standards, the garbage dump troop developed and enforced what I would call a “no asshole rule.”

So, maybe ALPHAS aren't needed after all.  The lesson from the baboons is that when the social distance between higher and lower status mammals in a group are reduced, and steps are taken to keep the distance smaller, higher status members are less likely to act like jerks.  

[StreetSoldier4U]

The elites have no power unless the masses give it to them.   I have very little sympathy for the proles. They aren't victims but willing accessories.   After all this time they should know better.

[Palpatine Q]

The same way it was enabled to rise in the first place. FORCE

I like to keep my conversations  and worldview based in reality.

Some of the fucking shit you people ramble on about.

[Radical Plato]

The elites have no power unless the masses give it to them.   I have very little sympathy for the proles. They aren't victims but willing accessories.   After all this time they should know better.

You underestimate the influence the Elites have over the masses, the masses can hardly be held responsible for being indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth.  Take psychiatry for example, essentially a branch of the Law and a favorite tool of the Elites.  If someone starts to work it out and spread anti-elitist messages and transmit that message to others and actually begins to have some influence, the simply label him mad and once that is done a so called crazy person has even less rights than a mass murderer and can be locked away indefinitely against his will.  He can then be drugged up, lobotomised and his spirit broken and there goes any hope of revolution.  When the Elites have such power, it's hard to blame people for not wanting to be subjected to such scrutiny.

[Radical Plato]

I like to keep my conversations  and worldview based in reality.

Some of the fucking shit you people ramble on about.

Go back to your mid life crisis, you being a narcissist will only struggle to see anything of relevance outside of yourself.

[StreetSoldier4U]

You underestimate the influence the Elites have over the masses, the masses can hardly be held responsible for being indoctrinated and brainwashed from birth.

Yes they can be held responsible.  Being self aware and understanding their complicity is the only way they can change. Unfortunately the same dark impulses that exist in the elites exist in them they just don't have the power to act on those impulses.  If they are imprisoned it's within a cell of their own making.