Author Topic: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?  (Read 8540 times)

Oggie Oglethorpe

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2014, 11:15:12 PM »
Don't know too much about him, how many times was he MVP?how many championships?was he far and away the best player in the league for 10+ years?

Wayne Gretzky was the most dominant player in any team sport ever. Far more dominant than Jordan.

Mario Lemieux was not better than WG, and Bobby Orr is the second greatest hockey player ever.

Gretzky has set scoring records that (without a major rule change) will never be broken.

He has more assists than the next person in the All-Time scoring list has total points.

In his prime that guy didn't put up nice scoring numbers...he put up numbers that looked like bowling averages. Yet he was about 5'-11" and 165 lbs soaking wet.

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2014, 04:20:50 AM »
Almost impossible to compare team players. It took Jordan a good number of years to win a title and he certainly didn't do it on his own. The simple fact of having Jackson on the bench was already a big plus. Individual sports: sure, Bubka was dominant but so has been Edwin Moses, Abebe Bikila and a bunch of others. I'd have to go with Ray Sugar Robinson. His record at some point was 127W-1L-2D. Unreal and those were tough fighters back then, fighting every other week.

_aj_

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2014, 04:25:46 AM »
for a skinny rag doll of a guy Gretzky accomplished amazing things

Gretzky looked like he was playing around with the rest of the NHL. His dominance was unparalleled in sport, IMHO.

Grape Ape

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2014, 04:27:40 AM »
Tom Brady. Drafter very low nobody expected much, I'd say he's a good example.

He's not a good example - By your ow  definition he didn't have any hype.
Y

visualizeperfection

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2014, 04:29:43 AM »
He's not a good example - By your ow  definition he didn't have any hype.

I guess he surpassed the very limited hype.

xfactor is kind of right.

but not on purpose.

Grape Ape

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #30 on: March 25, 2014, 04:31:30 AM »
Lol no, Lebron got to the finals then average like 20 ppg on 35% against the spurs and lost.the next time he got to the finals he averaged around 18ppg on 35% getting shut down by a 40 yr old Jason Kidd  and scrub Stephenson and lost again.He needed to team with up with 2 other first options in free agency to win anything.Going 2-2 in NBA finals against teams that arnt even classed as legendary is shit.

Kobe?these are the players Kobe has played with in his career, and he only has 5 titles?



This is a ridiculous argument.  Lebron was hyped as being one of the potentiallyf greatest players ever.   And now he is considered the best in the league and on his way to being one of the best ever.  Of course he's living up to the hype.  Dissecting individual games or putting you own negative context on it doesn't change that.
Y

Grape Ape

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #31 on: March 25, 2014, 04:32:54 AM »
I guess he surpassed the very limited hype.

xfactor is kind of right.

but not on purpose.

He had zero pre NFL hype.  If he threw one career TD he would have surpassed it.
Y

visualizeperfection

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #32 on: March 25, 2014, 04:34:12 AM »
He had zero pre NFL hype.  If he threw one career TD he would have surpassed it.

I did mention it was very limited  :)

now the only thing bigger than his ego are the cock he routinely devours.

BigCyp

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #33 on: March 25, 2014, 04:36:06 AM »
English guys who know too much about American sports are very suspicious individuals.

doison

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #34 on: March 25, 2014, 04:37:38 AM »
Wayne Gretzky was the most dominant player in any team sport ever. Far more dominant than Jordan.

Mario Lemieux was not better than WG, and Bobby Orr is the second greatest hockey player ever.

Gretzky has set scoring records that (without a major rule change) will never be broken.

He has more assists than the next person in the All-Time scoring list has total points.

In his prime that guy didn't put up nice scoring numbers...he put up numbers that looked like bowling averages. Yet he was about 5'-11" and 165 lbs soaking wet.

He was given the nickname of the "great one" at age 9....
Y

visualizeperfection

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #35 on: March 25, 2014, 04:39:22 AM »
English guys who know too much about American sports are very suspicious individuals.

Football is the Universe's sport.

The real football btw, the American variety  :)


MORTALCOIL

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2014, 04:41:44 AM »
English guys who know too much about American sports are very suspicious individuals.

Are you implying that Getbig might be hosting a few chaps who think as themselves as brutally heterosexual and are quick to switch from a Premier League game to an NBA one 'cause those scantily clad ballers play a much more masculine sport?

gee38

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2014, 05:04:47 AM »
Bolt has done this with ease

as has Phil 'The Power' Taylor

 ;D

BigCyp

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2014, 05:15:41 AM »
Football is the Universe's sport.

The real football btw, the American variety  :)



Maybe my friend, but Army of One doesn't just 'happen' upon the sports that are filled with 90% big black men with very loose shorts

Melkor

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2014, 05:15:51 AM »
Wayne Gretzky - obvious
Walter Payton - same, never underperformed
Leo Messi has surpassed the hype (remember when he first arrived on the scene people thought he would be great - now, year in year out he continues to amaze)
Cristiano Ronaldo - as much as I don't like him, nobody ever thought he would surpass the initial hype he got when he joined Man Utd
Mike Tyson - I'm his biggest fan (during that early run he had, best heavyweight ever) BUT he didn't live up to the hype. He was supposed to become the most successful boxer of all time but he didn't, his career effectively ended after the Michael Spinks fight.

What about those who never lived up to the hype?
Braylon Edwards? Ryan Leaf? Francis Jeffers? Freddy Adu?

BigCyp

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2014, 05:16:48 AM »
Bolt has done this with ease

as has Phil 'The Power' Taylor

 ;D

Hahaha yes The Power is a legend

Not too sure about the number of kisses Adrian The Jackpot Lewis is giving out in between sets though  :-X

Quickerblade

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #41 on: March 25, 2014, 05:17:17 AM »
Lol no, Lebron got to the finals then average like 20 ppg on 35% against the spurs and lost.the next time he got to the finals he averaged around 18ppg on 35% getting shut down by a 40 yr old Jason Kidd  and scrub Stephenson and lost again.He needed to team with up with 2 other first options in free agency to win anything.Going 2-2 in NBA finals against teams that arnt even classed as legendary is shit.

Kobe?these are the players Kobe has played with in his career, and he only has 5 titles?

Nash\van exel\gary Payton
Eddie jones\ Mitch Richmond
Lamar odom\ Glenn rice\antwan Jamison \artest\ariza
Malone\gasol\rodman\horry\horace grant
Shaq\howard\bynum

the lakers have underachieved with all the talent they brought in, and thats largely due to Bryant completely sucking balls when his game isn't on,  if he isn't scoring then he is a non factor.give a 26+ old Jordan those teammates until he retires and its 8+ championships.If Kobe was on the bucks he'd just be another dominique Wilkins.

Great post. I agree with most of it. I cannot comment on Lebron yet, his not even 30 yet.
But Kobe being another Dominique Wilkins is spot on.

Jordan was definitely a freak, huge ball hog too, I remember they used to air Chicago bull games on Australian TV, I would watch the full game, then you realise the NBA is a great marketing machine, they put together a 50 second highlight reel of Jordan doing circus shots, buzzer beaters, dunks in traffic and swishing 3's from 33 feet.
Then you watch the full game and you see he was stoppable,

 I remember Vernon Maxwell stopping him one on one, he just demanded the ball enough to keep trying...if that was another player they would be benched. (same as Kobe)
But Jordan was amazing, 6 championships proves that.

Lebron is timid, if he just fucked off twitter and focused on being a on being great he could score 50 a game, physically his amazing. Lebron is not as selfish as Jordan, if he was, I think we would see a better player.

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2014, 05:19:22 AM »

Leo Messi has surpassed the hype (remember when he first arrived on the scene people thought he would be great - now, year in year out he continues to amaze)


Messi hasn't surpassed the hype somehow. He's been contending for "the best player ever title" for a few years now. Yet, he has underperformed with the Argentina team for now.
If he doesn't win a world cup before he retires, this will stick.

visualizeperfection

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #43 on: March 25, 2014, 05:23:47 AM »
Maybe my friend, but Army of One doesn't just 'happen' upon the sports that are filled with 90% big black men with very loose shorts

All I'm trying to say is that any sport with a median gear use that is shy of a gram a week isn't really a sport at all.



Quickerblade

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #44 on: March 25, 2014, 05:24:52 AM »
Wayne Gretzky - obvious
Walter Payton - same, never underperformed
Leo Messi has surpassed the hype (remember when he first arrived on the scene people thought he would be great - now, year in year out he continues to amaze)
Cristiano Ronaldo - as much as I don't like him, nobody ever thought he would surpass the initial hype he got when he joined Man Utd
Mike Tyson - I'm his biggest fan (during that early run he had, best heavyweight ever) BUT he didn't live up to the hype. He was supposed to become the most successful boxer of all time but he didn't, his career effectively ended after the Michael Spinks fight.

What about those who never lived up to the hype?
Braylon Edwards? Ryan Leaf? Francis Jeffers? Freddy Adu?
Mike Tyson is so lucky his fights were filmed.
he was thermo-nuclear but his prime was short lived, but it was against bums and no names. Marketing machine at its best.
Mike tysons name will outlast Floyd mayweathers name, Floyd's fight are boring, Tyson would have boring fights too then he would deliver that knockout punch everybody was waiting for. you could make a highlight reel of Derrick Coleman, doing massive dunks, hitting 3's , blocking shots, post moves, hook shots and it would make you believe he was the best power forward ever.. he was not even top 20. Its all about highlight reels.

snx

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #45 on: March 25, 2014, 06:12:05 AM »
No one will ever touch Gretzky. He is as dominant (relative to any peer who played in the NHL) as you will find in the big 4 sports.

Lemieux had one year (and only one year) where he started sniffing Gretzky numbers. Gretzky holds records for most goals in a season, most assists in a season, and is the only man to have scored over 200 pts in a season (he did it 4 times).

Gretzky has more career assists than anyone else has career points.

Gretzky was the fastest man to 1000 points. He's also the second fastest man to score 1000 points again (and no one else has ever scored 2000 points).

He was easily the most dominant hockey player of all time. No one even comes close. He was hyped as a kid, for sure. But no one would have ever picked that kind of sheer dominance.

You could say his teammates in Edmonton made him great (they surely did....Coffey, Fuhr, Messier, Anderson, Kurri....all HOF'ers). But then, one need only look at what Gretzky did for Bernie Nicholls in L.A. to see that truly, he made everyone around him great. He took the Kings, a perennial basement dwelling team that was forgotten after the Flames/Oilers rivalries in the Smythe division at the time, and made them true contenders for the cup.

Gretzky is the single greatest and most dominant athlete the big four sports have ever seen.

Ruth and Bonds were great, but not THAT much greater than their peers, when you compare Gretzky to Lemieux or Orr (the only two hockey players one might think to compare to Gretzky). Gherig, Foxx, Cobb, and Williams...all very dominant players who could have laid claim to being GOATS. And even if you don't agree with me on the runners-up (Williams, Gherig, etc....), you can at least agree that Bonds was a modern-day Ruth (statistically speaking) and therefore, Ruth truly can't be a run-away, far-and-away GOAT, because Bond's modern-day numbers are so close to what Ruth did. So clearly, Ruth is not the run-away dominant force in baseball, because Bonds is right there with him.

You could say Jordan was great (and he certainly was), but was he that much better than Wilt Chamberlain? I don't think so. Chamberlain was truly a masterfully dominant force in the NBA without peer...arguments could be made that he was more dominant than Jordan during his time period, but I'll let basketball afficianados argue that.

In football, it's so tough to argue sheer dominance due to the very selective nature of each position and how much each position is allowed to impact all parts of a game. If we only looked at skill positions, I would say Jerry Rice is the most dominant player of all time at his position. He is so many light years ahead of the Chris Carters, Marvin Harrisons and Tim Browns of the world. There has never been a skill position in football that has had its record books so dominantly re-written, when we look at what Jerry Rice did.


So, in my humble opinion, there have been 2 truly game-changing players in the big 4 sports that have been supremely dominant over their peer group so as to truly be called the greatest of all time:

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Jerry Rice


I would not put Jordan in that elite two-some. Wilt Chamberlain lays too great a claim to being basketball's GOAT, in my opinion, to count Jordan as being far and away the most dominant player in his sport, the way Gretzky and Jerry Rice were.

My two cents. I'm sure I'll get lit up here!

Quickerblade

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #46 on: March 25, 2014, 06:28:29 AM »


You could say Jordan was great (and he certainly was), but was he that much better than Wilt Chamberlain? I don't think so. Chamberlain was truly a masterfully dominant force in the NBA without peer...arguments could be made that he was more dominant than Jordan during his time period, but I'll let basketball afficianados argue that.



I would not put Jordan in that elite two-some. Wilt Chamberlain lays too great a claim to being basketball's GOAT, in my opinion, to count Jordan as being far and away the most dominant player in his sport, the way Gretzky and Jerry Rice were.

My two cents. I'm sure I'll get lit up here!

I wont light you up, but have to disagree.

polychronopolous

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #47 on: March 25, 2014, 06:30:38 AM »
No one will ever touch Gretzky. He is as dominant (relative to any peer who played in the NHL) as you will find in the big 4 sports.

Lemieux had one year (and only one year) where he started sniffing Gretzky numbers. Gretzky holds records for most goals in a season, most assists in a season, and is the only man to have scored over 200 pts in a season (he did it 4 times).

Gretzky has more career assists than anyone else has career points.

Gretzky was the fastest man to 1000 points. He's also the second fastest man to score 1000 points again (and no one else has ever scored 2000 points).

He was easily the most dominant hockey player of all time. No one even comes close. He was hyped as a kid, for sure. But no one would have ever picked that kind of sheer dominance.

You could say his teammates in Edmonton made him great (they surely did....Coffey, Fuhr, Messier, Anderson, Kurri....all HOF'ers). But then, one need only look at what Gretzky did for Bernie Nicholls in L.A. to see that truly, he made everyone around him great. He took the Kings, a perennial basement dwelling team that was forgotten after the Flames/Oilers rivalries in the Smythe division at the time, and made them true contenders for the cup.

Gretzky is the single greatest and most dominant athlete the big four sports have ever seen.

Ruth and Bonds were great, but not THAT much greater than their peers, when you compare Gretzky to Lemieux or Orr (the only two hockey players one might think to compare to Gretzky). Gherig, Foxx, Cobb, and Williams...all very dominant players who could have laid claim to being GOATS. And even if you don't agree with me on the runners-up (Williams, Gherig, etc....), you can at least agree that Bonds was a modern-day Ruth (statistically speaking) and therefore, Ruth truly can't be a run-away, far-and-away GOAT, because Bond's modern-day numbers are so close to what Ruth did. So clearly, Ruth is not the run-away dominant force in baseball, because Bonds is right there with him.

You could say Jordan was great (and he certainly was), but was he that much better than Wilt Chamberlain? I don't think so. Chamberlain was truly a masterfully dominant force in the NBA without peer...arguments could be made that he was more dominant than Jordan during his time period, but I'll let basketball afficianados argue that.

In football, it's so tough to argue sheer dominance due to the very selective nature of each position and how much each position is allowed to impact all parts of a game. If we only looked at skill positions, I would say Jerry Rice is the most dominant player of all time at his position. He is so many light years ahead of the Chris Carters, Marvin Harrisons and Tim Browns of the world. There has never been a skill position in football that has had its record books so dominantly re-written, when we look at what Jerry Rice did.


So, in my humble opinion, there have been 2 truly game-changing players in the big 4 sports that have been supremely dominant over their peer group so as to truly be called the greatest of all time:

1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Jerry Rice


I would not put Jordan in that elite two-some. Wilt Chamberlain lays too great a claim to being basketball's GOAT, in my opinion, to count Jordan as being far and away the most dominant player in his sport, the way Gretzky and Jerry Rice were.

My two cents. I'm sure I'll get lit up here!

As freaky as Gretzkys numbers are...

Babe Ruth's 90+ wins as a pitcher and 714 home runs is THE most unbreakable career stat in all of sports.

We'll all be dead and buried and nobody will ever have come close to it.

Voice of Doom

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #48 on: March 25, 2014, 06:48:17 AM »
Jordan
Pele
Gretzky
Jackie Robinson
Tiger
Joe Montana
Payton
Klose
Ronaldo (Brazilian)
Zidane

MORTALCOIL

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Re: Is Jordan the only athlete that ever lived up to or surpassed the hype?
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2014, 06:52:37 AM »
Jordan
Pele
Gretzky
Jackie Robinson
Tiger
Joe Montana
Payton
Klose
Ronaldo (Brazilian)
Zidane

Zidane (and I'm French) was never that dominant. Not in the way Pelé or Maradona were and not even like prime time (before knee injuries) Ronaldo was.