High Volume vs HIT

[Simple Simon]

I dont keep track of poundage. I mean I know how strong I am but it's not the reason I'm there and I am not trying to hit certain reps/poundages.

For example on a lat pulldown I'll just put the pin in somewhere near the bottom and just rep it out. It's all about exertion and effort.

Machines, free weights....preacher curl machine, dumbell curls, your muscles dont know the difference between a square weight attached to a cable or a circular one on a straight bar.

The one constant in my training is I work out very hard and I think about the kineseology of my body and what hits the target muscle most effectively

PS   you can't just remember what weights you used ? I thought you were a smart guy....LOL 

This more than anything else, I have no idea what Im going to lift before I get there, I do a couple of sets and if I feel god I will up the weight, if I have any little niggles or are not getting a good pump, then I just stay at that weight or move onto another exercise.

Going for new records in the gym with high poundages leads to injury, its almost inevitable.
Training for a year injury free is far better that having 3 months off due to ego lifting.

[wes]

I remember you kept a blog of your training here I believe. So it's instinctive but you wrote down the workout as you went along or after? I can count on my hand how many times I have  trained instinctive. I know so many successful lifters do. Yates said if he trained instinctively he would take a nap instead of hitting the gym. The list of top bodybuilders who use instinctive training is huge.

Rich,I`d write it after I trained.........I never sit and write in a workout..........it`s all hard work while in the gym.

One thing I can`t stand to see is some guy lollypoppin` around for 10 minutes scrawling nonsense in a notebook when he could have done 2-3 intense sets.

I always know which bodypart I`m gonna` train,my split remains the same almost always:
Quads,Hams,Calves
Chest + Abs
Back,Traps
Shoulders,Calves
Arms
Rest
Rest

I formulate a plan a bit ahead of time.....maybe the night before or even on the drive to the gym,BUT,if something doesn`t feel right,I`ll change it at any time.........nothing`s carved in stone.except the bodypart split.

[wes]

This more than anything else, I have no idea what Im going to lift before I get there, I do a couple of sets and if I feel god I will up the weight, if I have any little niggles or are not getting a good pump, then I just stay at that weight or move onto another exercise.

Going for new records in the gym with high poundages leads to injury, its almost inevitable.
Training for a year injury free is far better that having 3 months off due to ego lifting.

Same here.^^

[oldtimer1]

Rich,I`d write it after I trained.........I never sit and write in a workout..........it`s all hard work while in the gym.

One thing I can`t stand to see is some guy lollypoppin` around for 10 minutes scrawling nonsense in a notebook when he could have done 2-3 intense sets.

I always know which bodypart I`m gonna` train,my split remains the same almost always:
Quads,Hams,Calves
Chest + Abs
Back,Traps
Shoulders,Calves
Arms
Rest
Rest

I formulate a plan a bit ahead of time.....maybe the night before or even on the drive to the gym,BUT,if something doesn`t feel right,I`ll change it at any time.........nothing`s carved in stone.except the bodypart split.

Like I said before I know so many successful bodybuilders who train like that. Many pros go to the gym and use the weight they feel they are up to that day. If they were following a script they would bang their head against the wall to get one more rep from last week's journal entry. I am guilty of being a journal anal junkie during training. When in a cycle I always try to beat last weeks entries and this leads to quick burn out.

[Damios]

Rich,I`d write it after I trained.........I never sit and write in a workout..........it`s all hard work while in the gym.

One thing I can`t stand to see is some guy lollypoppin` around for 10 minutes scrawling nonsense in a notebook when he could have done 2-3 intense sets.

I always know which bodypart I`m gonna` train,my split remains the same almost always:
Quads,Hams,Calves
Chest + Abs
Back,Traps
Shoulders,Calves
Arms
Rest
Rest

I formulate a plan a bit ahead of time.....maybe the night before or even on the drive to the gym,BUT,if something doesn`t feel right,I`ll change it at any time.........nothing`s carved in stone.except the bodypart split.

It's nice Split, but i fking love train on sat and sun too so if i would like train with "instinctive" or something like that, this split will be:

Quads,Hams,Calves
Chest + Abs
Back,Traps
Shoulders,Calves
Arms
Repeat

But i don't think it's good idea   So sometimes, for any people it's good to have any plan

[wes]

Like I said before I know so many successful bodybuilders who train like that. Many pros go to the gym and use the weight they feel they are up to that day. If they were following a script they would bang their head against the wall to get one more rep from last week's journal entry. I am guilty of being a journal anal junkie during training. When in a cycle I always try to beat last weeks entries and this leads to quick burn out.

I used to do that,in fact,between you and I we`ve more than likely done everything there is to do in this game,but these days,I work with a weight that is out of my comfort zone n heavier sets,actually there is nevrer a comfort zone,but I don`t care about getting one more rep than last week,unless of course I can............I always listen to my bodys feedback and train accordingly.

If I feel strong on any given day,I go heavier,but regardless,I always go as heavy as I can for the amount of reps I`m shooting for, or as heavy as I can for the training protocol I`m using at any particular time.

I throw in a lot of intensity techniques and do certain things form wise to ensure I`m hitting the target muscle properly, which at times will limit my poundages,but is more effective for muscle building, which is my goal as opposed to just getting stronger.

At 58,I`m always stronger than the average slob on the street, and still, pound for pound, as strong as most guys in my gym if not stronger,but I don`t train for strength anymore at all.

[ProudVirgin69]

A lot of knowledge & experience posted in this thread....good stuff everybody

[wes]

A lot of knowledge & experience posted in this thread....good stuff everybody

It`s weird to actually discuss training and nutrition on getbig!  LOL 

[Simple Simon]

It`s weird to actually discuss training and nutrition on getbig!  LOL 

I only found out there was a training section after had been here two months. 
The G&O is the only section where people post regularly.

[Mawse]

Oldtimer1 right on with his post, one macho set just doesn't cause enough fatigue to the muscle. Dante strudel , mentzer, jones etc didn't understand that making that one set " super hard" with forced reps, negatives, rest pause just increased the stress on the CNS without any appreciable muscle growth stimuli.

For the main lift I pick a weight I can do 5-8 sets with, then for other exercises I'll use what're weight is on the machine when I get to it and force myself to make it hard by squeezing the reps

From training as a pler for years , CNS takes longer than muscles to recover anyway.

I thought people stopped talking about hit back when Clinton was getting impeached?

[the trainer]

Some people in this thread have no idea what real intensity training is so take a look.

[oldtimer1]

If you run as hard as you can for 400 meters you will be so exhausted you will have trouble standing up. That one lap will be brutal. If you're not running then your quarter miles will improved by this crazy method. Your one mile time will improve from doing that brutal lap.  That one lap will be so hard that you probably couldn't do it ever day. Is this the optimal time way to train to improve your running? Absolutely no. It's as intense as it gets though.

A better approach would be to do 8 or 10 x 400 meters. You will push each 400 meters hard but not to the ragged edge until latter sets. This is one of the standard workouts for milers.

What am I trying to convey? Muscle fibers, the general consensus is that they are completely on or off. They aren't capable of variable pulling. If you need for the sake of this conversation 50 fibers then 50 fibers will turn on. If you are doing one set to failure when you fail there will be unused fibers. You will now this because if you failed at 10 reps and took a rest and tried it again you might get 8 reps.  If you truly failed and stimulated all fibers you wouldn't be able to do any reps or just a few a minute later.  This is obviously a simplification of what's happening.  

HIT vs volume will never be settled. Going to failure is a tool. It shouldn't be a training protocol. Olympic lifters and Powerlifters don't train to failure every training session. Why do HIT guys say it's mandatory for strength and size gains? I believe getting stronger increases the size and density of a muscle but something else in play too. What increases a muscle size the most is it's adaptation to muscular endurance training and that is what volume training is.

[Viking11]

If you run as hard as you can for 400 meters you will be so exhausted you will have trouble standing up. That one lap will be brutal. If you're not running then your quarter miles will improved by this crazy method. Your one mile time will improve from doing that brutal lap.  That one lap will be so hard that you probably couldn't do it ever day. Is this the optimal time way to train to improve your running? Absolutely no. It's as intense as it gets though.

A better approach would be to do 8 or 10 x 400 meters. You will push each 400 meters hard but not to the ragged edge until latter sets. This is one of the standard workouts for milers.

What am I trying to convey? Muscle fibers, the general consensus is that they are completely on or off. They aren't capable of variable pulling. If you need for the sake of this conversation 50 fibers then 50 fibers will turn on. If you are doing one set to failure when you fail there will be unused fibers. You will now this because if you failed at 10 reps and took a rest and tried it again you might get 8 reps.  If you truly failed and stimulated all fibers you wouldn't be able to do any reps or just a few a minute later.  This is obviously a simplification of what's happening.  

HIT vs volume will never be settled. Going to failure is a tool. It shouldn't be a training protocol. Olympic lifters and Powerlifters don't train to failure every training session. Why do HIT guys say it's mandatory for strength and size gains? I believe getting stronger increases the size and density of a muscle but something else in play too. What increases a muscle size the most is it's adaptation to muscular endurance training and that is what volume training is.

If the stimulus for disparate resultant goals was the same, then that would be true.