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Author Topic: 2 yr old starved 9 days before dying due to ban on euthanasia  (Read 1585 times)
Agnostic007
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« on: April 07, 2014, 07:15:57 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592260/Barbaric-law-meant-family-watch-helplessly-girl-2-starved-death-NINE-DAYS-euthanasia-ban.html

Makes you think. We put animals out of their misery and are thought to be cruel if we allow them to suffer. But humans, we have to starve them to death rather than a quick end. I think it's way past time to change the rules..
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jon cole
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« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 07:34:20 AM »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592260/Barbaric-law-meant-family-watch-helplessly-girl-2-starved-death-NINE-DAYS-euthanasia-ban.html

Makes you think. We put animals out of their misery and are thought to be cruel if we allow them to suffer. But humans, we have to starve them to death rather than a quick end. I think it's way past time to change the rules..


Of course it makes you think but a very particular and "sentimental" case is not enough to summarise a debate like euthanasia.


But it seems that "emotionnal instantaneous" is the only mode of reflexion in our modern society.

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« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 07:40:49 AM »


Of course it makes you think but a very particular and "sentimental" case is not enough to summarise a debate like euthanasia.


But it seems that "emotionnal instantaneous" is the only mode of reflexion in our modern society.



But I think it is. This is not an isolated instance by any means. A relative of mine died of stomach cancer and her last month was filled with extreme pain. Her last week she was so dosed up with morphine she was out of it. The family had to watch her die an awful death we wouldn't allow a dog to go through. I can think of 2 others just in my own experience with similar circumstances. What is it about us that we think it's better to have someone suffer their last days then to go out with dignity and painfree? 
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pedro01
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« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 07:47:59 AM »

I know it sounds bad but personally, I could not euthanize somebody. Who could? Who is supposed to carry out the procedure?

I think euthanization is a slippery slope but in this case the baby was euthanized anyway - just by starvation. I presume also she was sedated during the 9 days.  

It seems to be that passive euthanization is OK but active euthanization isn't. I don't get that at all.

I don't think an article from a rag like the Daily Mail is a good way to get a balanced view on what happened in those 9 days. It is a sensationalist rag.

The girl had severe brain injury, so I'm not sure that the statement "the nine days of suffering Natty endured could have been replaced with 30 seconds of a medically-induced, less painful death."

Also the following statement sounds odd

"Natty lost half her body weight and became increasingly delirious. She became 'nothing but a shell of the little girl, that a few short months ago, filled our lives with laughter and happiness,' her family said."

If she was deaf, blind and paralysed and suffering from seizures prior to the starvation - was she not already nothing but a shell of the little girl?

There's no doubt she was a beautiful girl. A friend of mind had his 4 year old daughter die of cancer - on valentines day of all days. I remember sitting in a bar with him and looking at him and tears were streaming down his face -  because the place we were in was playing the song they played at her funeral.

I'm welling up just thinking about it. When he sees my daughter it reminds him of Jazzy. Honestly - we don't know how lucky we are to not go through that. I can't imagine it.

This is a tough read - but here is her story - http://www.jazzywren.com/jazzywren.com/Welcome.html
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warez4gold
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« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 09:19:06 AM »

parents are obviously dumb

you can learn how to make a painless suicide pill here:

http://www.exitinternational.net/

also, you could just travel to the land of the swiss and get it done

in the age of information, ignorance is a choice my friend!
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warez4gold
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« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 09:20:29 AM »

i believe that every human being has the RIGHT to a painless medically assisted suicide
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pedro01
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« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 09:30:13 AM »

parents are obviously dumb

you can learn how to make a painless suicide pill here:

http://www.exitinternational.net/

also, you could just travel to the land of the swiss and get it done

in the age of information, ignorance is a choice my friend!

I wouldn't say dumb - but the father could have just put a hand over her face and suffocated her. He'd have gotten away with it most likely -but I think it's a lot easier said than done.

Even a suicide pill would be hard to administer as a parent. I think the bottom line is they want her to have a peaceful exit but want someone else to do it.
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tu_holmes
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 09:36:45 AM »

No reason for people to have to suffer...

It's not even about the pain the person is in... It's selfishness on the part of those who can't stand letting them go.

It's bullshit.

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warez4gold
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« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2014, 09:41:18 AM »

if your kid is dying and you choose to go through a painful route of not supplying them with food, that is just plain stupid!  go on the internet, do some research, and make it happen in a more humane way!

people don't think!  just like they don't think before bringing a brand new human being into this shitty world we live in.  there is absolutely no reason to have children at this point in human history; the negatives outweigh the positives

anyone who has kids on purpose nowadays is just fueling their ego and living in a fantasy land!  that and they are completely devoid of any consciousness.
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2014, 10:05:43 AM »

if your kid is dying and you choose to go through a painful route of not supplying them with food, that is just plain stupid!  go on the internet, do some research, and make it happen in a more humane way!

people don't think!  just like they don't think before bringing a brand new human being into this shitty world we live in.  there is absolutely no reason to have children at this point in human history; the negatives outweigh the positives

anyone who has kids on purpose nowadays is just fueling their ego and living in a fantasy land!  that and they are completely devoid of any consciousness.

Why do parents have to risk prison to do so? Sure there are ways of ending the life yourself, but when you do this, you risk everything. Why do we have to? The law needs to change 
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« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2014, 11:39:16 AM »

As the father I would have immediately slipped her an injection of a lethal dose of morphine or the like. No way with the sob story backing him he would have done any time. Would have been regarded as a hero probably.
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littledumbells
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« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2014, 12:11:27 PM »

 I have had a mother and mother in law go by way of hospice. Hospice, in my opinion and observations, in nothing more than a long slow euthanasia. You can call it what you want, wrap it up with counselors and caring professionals, its bullshit. Large doses of opiates, withhold food and water. Once water is withheld its fairly quick. Those opposed to euthanasia, particularly politicians, should be required to observe one of these deaths in its entirety before they can vote on any legislation concerning euthanasia. 
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Agnostic007
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« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2014, 12:34:40 PM »

I have had a mother and mother in law go by way of hospice. Hospice, in my opinion and observations, in nothing more than a long slow euthanasia. You can call it what you want, wrap it up with counselors and caring professionals, its bullshit. Large doses of opiates, withhold food and water. Once water is withheld its fairly quick. Those opposed to euthanasia, particularly politicians, should be required to observe one of these deaths in its entirety before they can vote on any legislation concerning euthanasia. 

Agreed.
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Papper
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« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2014, 03:14:04 PM »

people always misuse the word "euthanize"

you don't euthanize a serial killer.. you kill him. dogs that are deemed violent.. are killed, not euthanized. I always see this word being thrown around like a eufemism for simple killing or murdering to be exact.

and this texan way of "euthanizing" seems strange to me.
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Marty Champions
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« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2014, 05:34:30 PM »

just give her a few vegetables and fruits, get her training hard fast one day a week to become anabolic , so says the armwrestler champ from ROSSIYA
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« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2014, 06:37:15 PM »

But neurologist Sarah Austin, who works with terminal patients, said legalizing euthanasia could be a slippery slope.

'When do you decide that this is the right time to hasten their death? ...  I think you do better to allow that process to go on naturally and make people comfortable in the process,' she said.



comfortable?Huh?what comfortable when you starve to your death
this is fucking nuts
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« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2014, 07:05:58 PM »

Maybe only 4,999 peopled 'liked' her FB picture, so god had to kill her
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« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2014, 08:12:35 PM »

I like the idea of being able to choose my own way out, and not have the state decide how and when I should go.

But does anyone else on here find it a slippery slope when folks are given the ability to choose when someone else's life should end? How "ok" is it for someone to choose someone's else's time of death, when they person who's dying can't really give consent? Who should be allowed to make that choice? When are they allowed to make it?


I don't have the answers, and I truly wrestle with this one.

Here's one thing I know; those parents just went through the worst kind of hell imaginable. A parent should never have to bury their child.
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syntaxmachine
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« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2014, 09:43:41 PM »

But I think it is. This is not an isolated instance by any means. A relative of mine died of stomach cancer and her last month was filled with extreme pain. Her last week she was so dosed up with morphine she was out of it. The family had to watch her die an awful death we wouldn't allow a dog to go through. I can think of 2 others just in my own experience with similar circumstances. What is it about us that we think it's better to have someone suffer their last days then to go out with dignity and painfree?  

The "law" may say one thing, but in such instances the moral act is to squirt enough morphine into their mouth to bring the end about quickly. It's doable if home care is elected and a set amount of morphine is distributed to the family.

So you just sat there and let the family member writhe/gurgle in pain for days on end? That sounds like a pussy move.
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« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2014, 09:46:35 PM »

The "law" may say one thing, but in such instances the moral act is to squirt enough morphine into their mouth to bring the end about quickly. It's doable if home care is elected and a set amount of morphine is distributed to the family.

So you just sat there and let the family member writhe away till the end? That sounds like a pussy move.

Million Dollar Baby. He did the right thing.
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SF1900
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« Reply #20 on: April 07, 2014, 09:52:36 PM »

As the father I would have immediately slipped her an injection of a lethal dose of morphine or the like. No way with the sob story backing him he would have done any time. Would have been regarded as a hero probably.


This is America. The law is backward. He would have done time.
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« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2014, 10:06:15 PM »

It's f'n pathetic that a condemned prisoner exits painlessly/peacefully, yet poor, innocent bastards have to suffer needlessly until the reaper finally calls. Kevorkian and Dignitas, et al. are far more humane than some extended hospice bullshit.
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Papper
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« Reply #22 on: April 07, 2014, 10:37:04 PM »

I like the idea of being able to choose my own way out, and not have the state decide how and when I should go.

But does anyone else on here find it a slippery slope when folks are given the ability to choose when someone else's life should end? How "ok" is it for someone to choose someone's else's time of death, when they person who's dying can't really give consent? Who should be allowed to make that choice? When are they allowed to make it?


I don't have the answers, and I truly wrestle with this one.

Here's one thing I know; those parents just went through the worst kind of hell imaginable. A parent should never have to bury their child.

Well yes it's a slippery slope indeed. I don't like the idea of accepted killing, wether it be capital punishment, "euthanasia" or killing of animals for fun.

However you have to make room for common sense and do a case to case judgement when needed about euthanasia and real suffering. I mean in principle is one thing but also important to look at the whole picture.

In the end even if science allowed all humans to live forever it wouldn't be sustainable... slippery yes..
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 07:04:47 AM »



This is America. The law is backward. He would have done time.

This.
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« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 07:06:58 AM »


There are no laws stopping granny or grandpa going off into the woods to die.  So why should there be laws made for doctors to do it?  If they don't have the willpower to do it themselves, then nobody else should.
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