Steve Reeves - Measurements - How Strong Was He?

[NarcissisticDeity]

Just like the horseshit you've been quoting plenty of times coming straight out of a blog, with exactly zero references. While perhaps the 'facts' in the blog could be verified, at no point were they in actuality, thus your quoting of it can be dismissed as purely agreeing with an opinion.


The fact is, Reeves may either have been on steroids, or he may not have been. To pick either without any possibility to confirm, nor disprove, would be idiotic and originate solely from being either a fanboy or a hater of Reeves.

Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.

First link is a great read.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf

http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis

[thegamechanger]

i actually met steve reeves once, it was a hot summer day in april of 59, he was clearly offseason but still had a solid built, wearing jeans and cowboy boots and a shirt that was unbuttoned, we decided to lift weights in his garage before hitting the beach we went for the pump and never put any heavy weights on the bar so to this day i dont know how strong he was but it was a beautiful day one that i will cherish.

[BB]

Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.

First link is a great read.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf

http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis

Again, you are just looking at them as starting only from York Barbell, meanwhile there was almost a decade worth of testosterone talk and widespread availability before that at the time. We do not know the exact date of common place usage, but since were know that testosterone was available before Zeigler, therefore theoretical usage can occur before that.

[BB]

7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.

https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10

.

[NarcissisticDeity]

7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.

https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10

.

There has been anecdotal evidence of testosterone ' use '  for eons before the 50's however there is absolutely NOTHING when it comes to athletes using. we have an established time-line for PEDs in strength athletes in the United States and it's years after retired it's an irrefutable fact , everything else fluff.

[Erik C]

7 pages of Testosterone therapy talk and experimentation taking place before 1951. Not taking into account studies not yet scanned into google, or ones that may be revealed by tweaking the search terms.

https://www.google.com/search?q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&biw=1242&bih=606&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A1%2F1%2F1900%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F1951&tbm=bks#q=male+hormone+therapy+testosterone&tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:1/1/1900,cd_max:12/31/1951&tbm=bks&start=10

.

Find a reference that states that test was being used for Bodybuilding, before Ziegler. Even Ziegler initially started using it for strength, rather than for muscle growth. The references you posted seem to only be about using test for treatment of impotence.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Again, you are just looking at them as starting only from York Barbell, meanwhile there was almost a decade worth of testosterone talk and widespread availability before that at the time. We do not know the exact date of common place usage, but since were know that testosterone was available before Zeigler, therefore theoretical usage can occur before that.

Yes theoretical , hypothetical , wishful thinking , etc ,  I'll deal with what we know not what we think we know , what we want to believe. In the realm of possibility could Reeves be on testosterone? theoretically? sure , what''s the probability? extremely unlikely.

This is Da Vinci's parachute it's NOT proof people were base jumping in 1485

 

[ChristopherA]

Arnold admitted doing drugs, and the drugs were available when he was completing. Reeves denied using drugs, was opposed to drug use, and there were no drugs that got any muscle building results in the 1940s.

Are we really debating a guy's natty status from the 1950's? Is that where we are at now with this whole natty/juiced debate? I think I'll take the word of a former trainee/partner of Reeves like yourself than all this other speculation bullshit. Reeves had world class genetics, he wasn't otherworldly big. I know how good my genetics are and have seen and were friend's with guy's that were given even better gifts. All this coming from a small area in Southeastern CT. So what could someone achieve with the top 2-3% bb genetics naturally? Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it? Would he have used in the 70's if he was in his peak then? Prob, if he wanted to compete at the highest level. Who knows, this thread is a bunch of garbage. Same 'ole people on this site who never achieved anything worthwhile naturally in the gym and have to tear everyone else down. This coming from someone who uses gear but only aftet I trained 7 yrs natty. I would go back to my natural build any day of the week, too. I could prob be even better than I was knowing everything I know about diet and protein shakes being garbage. Good to know things don't change after all these yrs on getbig, if I can't do it no one can.

[NarcissisticDeity]

Find a reference that states that test was being used for Bodybuilding, before Ziegler. Even Ziegler initially started using it for strength. rather than muscle growth.The references you posted seem to only be about about using test for treatment of impotence.

If he read the link I posted he would know that even Zeigler wasn't having much success initially with pure testosterone and even  with dianabol , now we're supposed to believe that the inventor of D-bols who had all the access and research of CIBA labs had little success with drugs was superseded by Reeves a a decade earlier with success? lol get the fuck outta here 

These people are like fundamentalist Christian apologists who when the story doesn't fit their narrative they try make it fit one way or another , it's literally grasping at straws.

[ChristopherA]

If he read the link I posted he would know that even Zeigler wasn't having much success initially with pure testosterone and even  with dianabol , now we're supposed to believe that the inventor of D-bols who had all the access and research of CIBA labs had little success with drugs was superseded by Reeves a a decade earlier with success? lol get the fuck outta here 

These people are like fundamentalist Christian apologists who when the story doesn't fit their narrative they try make it fit one way or another , it's literally grasping at straws.

The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?

[Rambone]

The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?

Dude grew up with a nutritionist for a mom and was all about living a healthy lifestyle.

[Overload]

6 Billion people on the planet.  Only one Steve. 

We know everything that ever happen in the past 100 years for sure.  There is nothing we do not know, particularly in bodybuilding where everything is so honest and out in the open.

Dude is legit natural God status.

[BB]

The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away. We are talking about the 40's-50's, correct? How the fuck would Reeve's know the shit wouldn't give him cancer, to throw out an extreme example. No science backed studies or long term research but Reeve's is gonna give it a shot, for 8-10 extra lbs?

I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.

Also this whole "The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away." idea doesn't hold water. By that logic bodybuilders wouldn't have tried Clenbuterol, Synthol, etc.... only a couple of years after their invention. Nor would they have been searching for "monkey GH", or reintroducing DNP, or playing with insulin, or plasma expanders, etc....

[NarcissisticDeity]

I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.

Also this whole "The lack of knowledge alone with these new unknown compounds would scare anyone away." idea doesn't hold water. By that logic bodybuilders wouldn't have tried Clenbuterol, Synthol, etc.... only a couple of years after their invention. Nor would they have been searching for "monkey GH", or reintroducing DNP, or playing with insulin, or plasma expanders, etc....

I really don't care about Reeves, I am simply stating that we should simply be willing to entertain that Testosterone/Androgen use could predate Zeiger by 5-10 years. Again we have it being discussed in popular culture throughout the late 1940's, Companies selling methyltestosterone by the FDA's own admission by mail order in 1948-1950. We have have multiple studies on Hypo glandular children, showing weight and muscle gain in patients. And we have 18+ compounds being offered for sale through major drug companies.

idea doesn't hold water

To use your own words against you. The idea of any strength athlete using PEDs before Zeigler holds no water. You set the bar of proof so low you've already convinced yourself it's a probable , when in reality it's simply not.

[BB]

Schmoe logic - "can't be proved through a muscle magazine, therefore it couldn't of existed".

[NarcissisticDeity]

Schmoe logic - "can't be proved through a muscle magazine, therefore it couldn't of existed".

lol now you're getting mad   

Come back when you have some proof I'll be here waiting 

[BB]

Naw, it's more amusement. It's sorta like when you watch those documentaries on ancient Amazon tribes, etc...., and you can't believe that they can't comprehend something you take for granted  .

[NarcissisticDeity]

Naw, it's more amusement. It's sorta like when you watch those documentaries on ancient Amazon tribes, etc...., and you can't believe that they can't comprehend something you take for granted  .

You have proof yet?  still waiting 

[Mr. MB]

I wish I could flash back 57 years and was siting once again with Steve, Scott, Bill Smith and Mickey Hargitay at Rand's having a beer. And we could flash forward to today if only to see this and similar threads arguing over Steve's "natural" physique. What a laugh we would have.

[polychronopolous]

Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it?

Ah yes, the good ole days when everybody was so conscious about what they were putting into their bodies.

[Erik C]

Are we really debating a guy's natty status from the 1950's? Is that where we are at now with this whole natty/juiced debate? I think I'll take the word of a former trainee/partner of Reeves like yourself than all this other speculation bullshit. Reeves had world class genetics, he wasn't otherworldly big. I know how good my genetics are and have seen and were friend's with guy's that were given even better gifts. All this coming from a small area in Southeastern CT. So what could someone achieve with the top 2-3% bb genetics naturally? Plus you think someone valuing his body as much as Reeves would throw some unknown shit in his body with barely any science behind it? Would he have used in the 70's if he was in his peak then? Prob, if he wanted to compete at the highest level. Who knows, this thread is a bunch of garbage. Same 'ole people on this site who never achieved anything worthwhile naturally in the gym and have to tear everyone else down. This coming from someone who uses gear but only aftet I trained 7 yrs natty. I would go back to my natural build any day of the week, too. I could prob be even better than I was knowing everything I know about diet and protein shakes being garbage. Good to know things don't change after all these yrs on getbig, if I can't do it no one can.

It was Mr. MB who trained with Steve Reeves, not me, though I wish could have learned directly from the master.  Unfortunately, Reeves was before my time.

[TheShape.]

I want to see the bodies of these men who claiming Steve was on steroids. They must look like shit.

[NarcissisticDeity]

 



STEVE "HERCULES" REEVES
Bodybuilding Legend Joins Muscular Development

"For over 30 years I've remained silent and just watched the transition that bodybuilding has made. And in my opinion, and in the opinions of many who have talked to me, bodybuilding, as it's practiced and promoted today, is dying--and dying fast.

Well, it's a good thing! Never in my life would I have imagined that such a terrific sport would be filled with so-called "champions" who are held up as heroes and adulated for physiques that are built with drugs. What kind of "real" bodybuilding champion is that?

Since when did a distinction need to be made between a "natural" bodybuilder and "chemical bodybuilder"? When I built my body, you were a bodybuilder--period! And you did it without drugs, by training hard, eating right and getting the right amount of rest.

It disturbs me to no end that today's muscle magazines are filled with stories on this-and-that champion's routine, when all the while the average man and woman are misled because these same magazines won't dare print the truth! And the truth is that these "champions" built their physiques after spending tens of thousands of dollars on steroids, growth hormone, insulin and whatever else happens to be the latest rage.

The public has been deceived for too long and it's time someone takes a stand. I will!

I want you to go to any newsstand during any given month and you'll find these same muscle magazines with cover blurbs and articles about the latest drugs. Open them up and you'll find page after page about drugs, how to take them and what to avoid. All this is the lie of supposedly giving their readers the information they say they want to know!

Recently, someone showed me a magazine put out by a young man in Colorado, and I was shocked. Unbelievably, bodybuilding is the only "sport" that has a magazine devoted to drugs! And this magazine promotes this character they call "the guru," who answers your most-asked drug-related questions.

After seeing photos of this fella, it makes you wonder; if drugs were so good, why didn't they work for him? Hey, and he's supposedly the "expert," whom people who want to know turn to! Wake up, friends! When and where will all this nonsense end? The other magazines won't stop it--and the bodybuilders sure as hell won't because they're stuck; either you keep taking drugs and getting bigger and more cut, or you won't win contests or get an endorsement contract.

Never in my life have I used any drug to build my body. Never! I wasn't born with the physique I built; I worked hard for it. Yet, I did it naturally. Sure, I didn't build it up to the size of today's drug-enhanced physiques, but I was after symmetry and proportion, and I achieved it in a package that allowed me to win the Mr. America and Mr. Universe titles, along with giving me a successful film career. Even today, at 71 years of age, I work on my ranch, work out and would be willing to bet that I could out-power walk many of those bloated muscle druggies 40 years my junior!
To me, a bodybuilder is someone who not only builds his body naturally, but has functional, real-world muscle that can be used at any time, and will help the person perform any activity better.

When it came to my body--the body you saw--and the condition I had, that was the body I had 24 hours a day, 365 days a year! I was not some bloated, out-of-shape, easily winded giant whose razor-sharp physique could only stay that way for a few weeks before or after a contest. (I can just hear the directive from the magazine editor to the photographers, "Hurry and snap those pictures before we lose him!")

When Steve Blechman, Publisher and Editor-In-Chief of NATURAL MD, spoke to me about his vision for taking the sport back to its natural roots, I applauded him. For others in the industry have had the opportunity and have "talked the talk," but no one has had the guts to take a stand for what's right. Blechman has. And that is why, after all these years, I've decided to help the sport I love get back to its proper place. One of the ways I intend to do that is by writing a monthly column for NATURAL MD magazine.

Something needs to be done now; we have no choice. For where there is no vision the people perish; and where there is no vision for the future of bodybuilding, bodybuilding will perish.

Many people may ask if there is another reason for me coming out of retirement to help save the sport. The answer is no, and I want to make one thing crystal clear: My passion for what I do has never been driven by money. I retired at the peak of my movie career, so that I could live life on my own terms.

All my life, I have never answered to anyone and I'm not about to do it now. The only thing I can give you in the coming months--through the pages of this magazine--is honesty and the truth about building your body without drugs.

I will teach you everything you will need to know to build the body you truly want. That is, to build it naturally and without any drugs. If you want to look like the other bodybuilders and want the latest drug information, then go to the other magazines. I'm only interested in talking about one thing: real bodybuilding. If that's what you want, then my friend, welcome home!"

[NarcissisticDeity]

Another good read about the history of PEDs

http://old.post-gazette.com/pg/05275/581242.stm

[Never1AShow]

Points taken , however this information isn't exactly some vague reference in the back of a magazine , it's pretty well documented over the years. There is a wealth of information out there and the genesis of athletes in the United States using PEDs begins with Ziegler it's not debatable.

First link is a great read.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/JSH/JSH1993/JSH2001/jsh2001b.pdf

http://articles.philly.com/2002-10-20/sports/25352734_1_steroids-york-barbell-chuck-yesalis

An article from a philly magazine and another from some sports history journal that shows Ziegler was an inveterate liar along with a lot of the bodybuilders self reporting what was going on 30 years later.Neither claim that west coast athletes weren't using testosterone.  The one about Zeigler says the Russians were using test as early as 1952.  Neither of these are some sort of serious historical study that concludes test wasn't being used earlier than Zeiglers charlatanesque experiments with Dbol.