What should a first time juicer take?

[Simple Simon]

people like me? lol.. have you read any of my posts? I've said repeatedly that I look the same, give or take hardness and vascularity, whether I use 1g or 3g or 6g.

and how many people actually QUIT bodybuilding because 'it's not for them'? are you really that clueless? lol...

like you're the bodybuilding gatekeeper, with the say-so of who gets to train and use drugs... you have a problem with me, yet your little buddy Autismhalo is on plenty of drugs and has yet to break the 200lb barrier. lol... fucking clueless.

Hardness and vascularity?
In your latest photo you look exactly the same as your old photos just bloated with water and oil.

So when we all laughed at your old photos and you claimed you dont look like that anymore you were lying?
6gms of gear to look like "gingernut"

[OTHstrong]

would you 2 please stop already, this is good thread without you guys bickering

[phreak]

 .

Long post with some things I agree with, some that I don't. Especially this strange disconnect: steroids are magic -- yet you need to use a fuckton of them to see any results.

[Core]

Long post with some things I agree with, some that I don't. Especially this strange disconnect: steroids are magic -- yet you need to use a fuckton of them to see any results.

a negligible test dosage with 500mg of npp is not a fuck ton

[phreak]

a negligible test dosage with 500mg of npp is not a fuck ton

at the absolute minimum 250mg test is double natural levels. For many it will triple or quadruple the test in their system. I would hardly call that negligible.

Of course we are both guilty of using n=1 examples, but as mentioned earlier I am reducing my dose to 225 mg weekly in total, because my growth isn't stopping even after nearly 8 months. All fun and games until you grow out of tailored jackets every 2-3 months...

Also I disagree (for part of the population at least) with your comments on diet. Counting macros is indeed mostly unnecessary, but having some idea of kcals is vital for proper growth. Many eat too little and delude themselves they are gorging themselves. Others (like me) would be 400 lbs if we kept eating what we wanted.

[mazrim]

I seriously doubt 200mg/wk of pharma cyp put you just above high... as that's 2x the regular hrt dose that puts most ppl around 900. 2 days post injection (of 200mg cyp, 13-14days since your last injection) should put you at 1200-1400 and will decrease to 750-900 about 10days post injection.. that's true for 90% of those who use HRT, myself included.. and my test was sub-100 w/o hrt (for many months, not just clean for a few months and got tested).

It was for trt and received shots direct from dr....

[ESFitness]

It was for trt and received shots direct from dr....

you sure it was 200mg/wk? and not 100mg?

your bloodwork seems about 1/2 what it should be for 200mg/wk.

[oni]

Sounds about right to me

[no one]

out of respect for my man OTH I'll contribute to this thread in a positive manner, altho ripping a certain poster a new one for his 'advice' could probably be one of the more positive courses of action I could take esp given I'm sure first time users are reading this thread.

enanthate. 300-400mg a wk.

it's like this. if you want a body that will hold a shit ton of dense rock hard muscle when you are in your 40's with relatively little effort, then the more time you take to create that build, using the least amount of chemicals necessary is the course to take.

if you want to look like a chemical dumpsite with no quality muscle, bloaty, acne ridden and unhealthy feel free to follow ESFitness' advise.

ok I cant do this any longer. sorry OTH I tried.

ESF you look like SHIT. I've saw the pic you took in the gym in the sleeveless top. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU GIVE OUT ADVISE LOOKING LIKE THAT? do you think the way you look validate the use of such heavy cycles for a beginner.

bro, your a fucking headcase. like you have serious mental issues. your a retard.

[ESFitness]

out of respect for my man OTH I'll contribute to this thread in a positive manner, altho ripping a certain poster a new one for his 'advice' could probably be one of the more positive courses of action I could take esp given I'm sure first time users are reading this thread.

enanthate. 300-400mg a wk.

it's like this. if you want a body that will hold a shit ton of dense rock hard muscle when you are in your 40's with relatively little effort, then the more time you take to create that build, using the least amount of chemicals necessary is the course to take.

if you want to look like a chemical dumpsite with no quality muscle, bloaty, acne ridden and unhealthy feel free to follow ESFitness' advise.

ok I cant do this any longer. sorry OTH I tried.

ESF you look like SHIT. I've saw the pic you took in the gym in the sleeveless top. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU GIVE OUT ADVISE LOOKING LIKE THAT? do you think the way you look validate the use of such heavy cycles for a beginner.

bro, your a fucking headcase. like you have serious mental issues. your a retard.

such heavy cycles? lol a gram of test and 500 tren? lol.. bwahahaha.

you know, it's the pieces of shit like yourself who advocate the minimal doses for 2 reasons...

reason 1, you yourself use 2-3x the amount and are too insecure (and you ARE insecure, just judging my your posts it's blatant) to tell others the 'truth' and would rather hold others back to make yourself look 'better'.

reason 2, you yourself have zero experience using higher doses.. which brings back the 'the world is flat' analogy. you have no experience with something, yet you cry about it being dangerous and all the bad things that come with it. i.e. you're talking out of your ass.

[Simple Simon]

such heavy cycles? lol a gram of test and 500 tren? lol.. bwahahaha.you know, it's the pieces of shit like yourself who advocate the minimal doses for 2 reasons...

reason 1, you yourself use 2-3x the amount and are too insecure (and you ARE insecure, just judging my your posts it's blatant) to tell others the 'truth' and would rather hold others back to make yourself look 'better'.

reason 2, you yourself have zero experience using higher doses.. which brings back the 'the world is flat' analogy. you have no experience with something, yet you cry about it being dangerous and all the bad things that come with it. i.e. you're talking out of your ass.

Thats exactly what he means, you just dont realise what is a "heavy cycle" in the realms orf the rational man.
You think 4-6 gms is normal because you cant make gains on anything less, you have already said that apart from hardness you look no different on a gram than 6gms, if thats the case then why 6 gms? Seriously, an extra 5 gms to look harder when a drop in carbs and a tighter diet would do exactly the same.
Sorry OTH but no one is right, this guys retarded.

[OTHstrong]

 

fuck I give up, you guys are too much 

do what you want 

[anabolichalo]

Autismhalo is on plenty of drugs and has yet to break the 200lb barrier. lol... fucking clueless.

HELLO EVERYBODY


FIRST CYCLE I DID 300MG TEST ENANTHATE FOR 12 WEEKS AND WENT FROM ABOUT 83KG TO 92KG BODYWEIGHT, FROM 15.5" ARM TO 16.5"


THE ONLY THING I REGRET ABOUT MY FIRST CYCLE IS ENDING IT, AFTER THAT THE RESULTS WERENT THE SAME THE SECOND CYCLE



I don't know what this "200 lbs BARRIER" is ESF speaks of", but if he means pressing 200lbs dumbbells, forget about it, not gonna happen folks.

[ESFitness]

Thats exactly what he means, you just dont realise what is a "heavy cycle" in the realms orf the rational man.
You think 4-6 gms is normal because you cant make gains on anything less, you have already said that apart from hardness you look no different on a gram than 6gms, if thats the case then why 6 gms? Seriously, an extra 5 gms to look harder when a drop in carbs and a tighter diet would do exactly the same.
Sorry OTH but no one is right, this guys retarded.

because I can't make gains? when did I ever say that? you fucking troll... you know what's the limiting factor in my 'gains'? or how I look in general? it's fucking FOOD.. you fucking troll. re-read my posts.. search through them idiot.. you'll see it repeated by ME over and OVER.. fucking idiot.

I use what I use because I can.. doesn't cost me more than a couple dollars a week, so if my body can withstand it, which it can, obviously given my lack of health problems, why wouldn't I use it?

you don't like what I use? fine.. don't do what I do.

you know what whining and crying about what I do makes you? a bitch. 100% bitch.

keep trolling.

[whitewidow]

Test E and EQ is probably one of the best first cycles one could use. 500mg range for both. Or Test and Deca. same dosage.I don't really believe in twice the amount of Test as the Deca dosage.

[oni]

because I can't make gains? when did I ever say that? you fucking troll... you know what's the limiting factor in my 'gains'? or how I look in general? it's fucking FOOD.. you fucking troll. re-read my posts.. search through them idiot.. you'll see it repeated by ME over and OVER.. fucking idiot.

I use what I use because I can.. doesn't cost me more than a couple dollars a week, so if my body can withstand it, which it can, obviously given my lack of health problems, why wouldn't I use it?

you don't like what I use? fine.. don't do what I do.

you know what whining and crying about what I do makes you? a bitch. 100% bitch.

keep trolling.

If food is the problem why you're not getting enough growth then why are you fat in those photos?

[phreak]

fuck I give up, you guys are too much 

do what you want 

Too bad. I actually respected your request. It might have been a very good discussion.

[phreak]

out of respect for my man OTH I'll contribute to this thread in a positive manner, altho ripping a certain poster a new one for his 'advice' could probably be one of the more positive courses of action I could take esp given I'm sure first time users are reading this thread.

enanthate. 300-400mg a wk.

it's like this. if you want a body that will hold a shit ton of dense rock hard muscle when you are in your 40's with relatively little effort, then the more time you take to create that build, using the least amount of chemicals necessary is the course to take.

if you want to look like a chemical dumpsite with no quality muscle, bloaty, acne ridden and unhealthy feel free to follow ESFitness' advise.

ok I cant do this any longer. sorry OTH I tried.

ESF you look like SHIT. I've saw the pic you took in the gym in the sleeveless top. HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU GIVE OUT ADVISE LOOKING LIKE THAT? do you think the way you look validate the use of such heavy cycles for a beginner.

bro, your a fucking headcase. like you have serious mental issues. your a retard.

No one,

Although I completely agree with you, please let's keep this in the G&O. I've been known to 'disagree' with ESF as well, but at least he did post a picture now. And out of respect for the Steroid section I didn't even comment on it. Fucking hard not to, but I kept my mouth shut.

Like many others I come to this section to learn. In order to learn I need to hear both sides of the story, not just the one I already agree with. Any lurkers and noobs reading this topic won't be convinced to start with rational dosages if all they see are personal attacks going back and forth. Let's fight this war with logic and science.

So please, as a personal appeal to you: Let's keep this section clean so that I and others like me can learn. Then get our low blows in over at the G&O.

[d0nny2600]

If food is the problem why you're not getting enough growth then why are you fat in those photos?

Ouch

[lowdose]

This was mine and at one point I had a record of every pin I had ever shot charted, started with the fast esters and the log died... Week 1-20 500 mg Test E. Week 1-6 50mg D-Bol had 10s and took it through out the day. Week 3-14 300mg Deca. .25 dex EOD with the standard HCG/nolva/clomid pct. Blew up and not in a good way. Diet wasn't horrible, but not the best should have started leaner. I couldn't believe how strong I got and I got focused completely on strength gains. I don't think it matters what they run. 250-500 Test only is the norm and see how your body reacts to each compound blah blah blah, but seriously educating them before is more important. Make sure they're 10% or under, make sure they know how to diet but eat. The importance of labs. Set goals and stick to them, instead of setting PRs everyday really train to grow. Find out if dude is ready to lose a lot of it or is he going to cruise. For me cycles were okay, but cruising and blasting is where it's at and are they ready to make that commitment.

[anabolichalo]

If food is the problem why you're not getting enough growth then why are you fat in those photos?

good point

[Simple Simon]

If food is the problem why you're not getting enough growth then why are you fat in those photos?

That pretty much blows his whole theory out of the water.
The fact that hes fat clearly indicates hes eating too much food.
I await his response.

[Simple Simon]

because I can't make gains? when did I ever say that? you fucking troll... you know what's the limiting factor in my 'gains'? or how I look in general? it's fucking FOOD.. you fucking troll. re-read my posts.. search through them idiot.. you'll see it repeated by ME over and OVER.. fucking idiot.

I use what I use because I can.. doesn't cost me more than a couple dollars a week, so if my body can withstand it, which it can, obviously given my lack of health problems, why wouldn't I use it?you don't like what I use? fine.. don't do what I do.

you know what whining and crying about what I do makes you? a bitch. 100% bitch.

keep trolling.

Because its pointless.
You said yourself you look virtually the same taking 1 gram and 6 grams
Dont you see doing something thats pointless is pointless, why inject yourself 30 times aweek when you can do it twice for the same results?

[ProudVirgin69]

I think the most important thing for a first timer is to think long-term.  If they're thinking in terms of weeks and not months or years, they'll blow up a little and then deflate just as quick.

Pick a dosage of test, 250-500/week, and run that consistently for months.  You'll feel great, perform better in the gym, and look pretty good.  It's cheap and side effects ought to be minimal.  At that point, you'll have an idea of what steroids do and should be able to decide where to go from there

[Simple Simon]

For the record, I couldnt give a flying fuck what esfitness takes himself to look as bad as he does, its the advice he dispenses to others, especially threads like this regarding a first ever course.

gram of cyp
500 deca
50mg/day proviron

Do you realise that could cause some serious sides to a first time user?
I use 250mgs test a week, if I go to 500 I bloat and smooth over and any more than that generally feel unwell.

You also have advised in another post/thread, rather than drop your dose because of sides to take additional compounds to alleviate them?
Did it ever occur to you "sides" might be your bodies way of telling you its too much?

Just because you are a steroid "cum bucket" and they dont work on you dont presume everyone else is your genetic equal.