What should a first time juicer take?

[Simple Simon]

you are delusional if you think he comes off sustaining 20 inch arms, that is still bigger then you have ever been, think about it

Think about what coming off means to him, its likely 8 weeks before anythings cleared his system
I can come off and not look any different for 4 weeks.

Hes probably drug free for around 4-6 weeks a year even though he stops jabbing for three months.

[OTHstrong]

Think about what coming off means to him, its likely 8 weeks before anythings cleared his system
I can come off and not look any different for 4 weeks.

Hes probably drug free for around 4-6 weeks a year even though he stops jabbing for three months.

''he's probably'' speculation at best coming from someone who does not believe pros take in excess of 6 grams, nice

[Simple Simon]

''he's probably'' speculation at best coming from someone who does not believe pros take in excess of 6 grams, nice

OK, how long would it take Phil to drop size and smooth over if he just stopped taking anything.

just quit cold turkey, and took nothing at all.

[ESFitness]

assuming 'lean bw' is sub 9-10%

person A carries 270lbs of lbw at 5'9" and requires 2g aas to maintain weight/size

person B carries 290lbs of lbw at 5'11" and requires 3g aaas to maintain weight/size

person c carries 240lbs of lbw at 5'7" and requires 4g aas to maintain weight/size

person D carries 270lbs lbw at 5'11" and requires 4g aas to maintain weight/size

ect. ect. ect... everybody is different and you won't know until you get there, how much androgens will be required to maintain (not grow) at a certain bodyweight. how many androgen molecules to fit inside those androgen receptors to keep that muscle from atrophying.

many factors (mainly genetic) including # of androgen receptors, amount of SHBG, or androgen/androgen receptor affinity...

same reason you have the 'consensus' of 6-8g/wk dosing with most pros/npc... you hit a wall with androgens, and no matter how much more you take, you just don't continue to grow. I recall Nasser telling me to my face as a 17yr old kid that he'd 'maxxed out' with steroids years before and the only thing that allowed him to continue to progress was growth hormone, and that's from a guy who was reportedly using 5g test/wk years after his retirement and up until his death.

[Simple Simon]

assuming 'lean bw' is sub 9-10%

person A carries 270lbs of lbw at 5'9" and requires 2g aas to maintain weight/size

person B carries 290lbs of lbw at 5'11" and requires 3g aaas to maintain weight/size

person c carries 240lbs of lbw at 5'7" and requires 4g aas to maintain weight/size

person D carries 270lbs lbw at 5'11" and requires 4g aas to maintain weight/size

ect. ect. ect... everybody is different and you won't know until you get there, how much androgens will be required to maintain (not grow) at a certain bodyweight. how many androgen molecules to fit inside those androgen receptors to keep that muscle from atrophying.

many factors (mainly genetic) including # of androgen receptors, amount of SHBG, or androgen/androgen receptor affinity...

same reason you have the 'consensus' of 6-8g/wk dosing with most pros/npc... you hit a wall with androgens, and no matter how much more you take, you just don't continue to grow. I recall Nasser telling me to my face as a 17yr old kid that he'd 'maxxed out' with steroids years before and the only thing that allowed him to continue to progress was growth hormone, and that's from a guy who was reportedly using 5g test/wk years after his retirement and up until his death.

Sounds believable, a top ranked IFBB pro sharing his dosage regime with a random spotty 17 year old kid.

[ESFitness]

Sounds believable, a top ranked IFBB pro sharing his dosage regime with a random spotty 17 year old kid.

random spotty? yea.. that's me... first time I'd ever seen or spoken with Nasser as well... hell, I hung out in the gym parking lot next to his ford probe just to assault him with questions and autograph questions as well.

keep talking like you know me dude.

[OTHstrong]

OK, how long would it take Phil to drop size and smooth over if he just stopped taking anything.

just quit cold turkey, and took nothing at all.

My point is he is still big, he doesn't lose more then 20lb, it is an illusion that he looks small, his arms are still well over 20 inches and his thighs are still 30+ and he still crushes 4 plates like its nothing on the bench.

[Simple Simon]

My point is he is still big, he doesn't lose more then 20lb, it is an illusion that he looks small, his arms are still well over 20 inches and his thighs are still 30+ and he still crushes 4 plates like its nothing on the bench.

Your total failure to answer the question is noted.

Thanks anyway.

[Simple Simon]

random spotty? yea.. that's me... first time I'd ever seen or spoken with Nasser as well... hell, I hung out in the gym parking lot next to his ford probe just to assault him with questions and autograph questions as well.

keep talking like you know me dude.

Sorry, I didnt realise you were best friends with him.
Scratch the last post.

[millineum man]

LOL! You guys are too much!! Can we just agree to disagree?

[OTHstrong]

LOL! You guys are too much!! Can we just agree to disagree?

well simple simon seems to think 20 inch arms and 30 inch thighs and repping with 4 plates is a big fat embarrassment if you have to take juice to accomplish this. 

[Simple Simon]

well simple simon seems to think 20 inch arms and 30 inch thighs and repping with 4 plates is a big fat embarrassment if you have to take juice to accomplish this. 

I dont know why you are scared to answer the question, its very easy.
Phils stats from his website

STATS:
Arms: 23
Legs: 32
Calves: 20
Neck: 18.5
Waist: 29
- See more at: http://www.phillipheath.com/about/#sthash.rYcn37Mp.dpuf

How long do you think it would take Phil to drop down to 20 inch arms and 30 inch thighs if he quit all gear cold turkey.

Try again.

[OTHstrong]

I dont know why you are scared to answer the question, its very easy.
Phils stats from his websiteHow long do you think it would take Phil to drop down to 20 inch arms and 30 inch thighs if he quit all gear cold turkey.

Try again.

his arms are not 23 but whatever, maybe a month but it would not stop there.

but now you are changing your position here, your original stance was that he looks so small that he looks like he does not juice so basically he looks like a natural to you, which is real dumb considering he is still way bigger then you have ever been.

[WillGrant]

lol at 29 inch waist 

[Simple Simon]

his arms are not 23 but whatever, maybe a month but it would not stop there.

but now you are changing your position here, your original stance was that he looks so small that he looks like he does not juice so basically he looks like a natural to you, which is real dumb considering he is still way bigger then you have ever been.

Lets see what i actually wrote

and it all ends where you end up like Phil Heath taking 2gms to cruise and looking like you are off.

Now what that means is if hes taking 2gms (Phil Heath, not me) he should look better than he currently does, because TBH he could stop taking gear altogether and still look like he does now in 6-8 weeks after coming off a blast.
When I stop taking 250mgs Test a week it takes me at least 4 weeks to notice a difference, and Phil is certainly ON much more than that when hes on.

Im not saying he looks shit or comparing myself to him, its disingenuous for you to accuse me of that.
Im saying Phil Heath looks like Phil Heath has stopped using and is clean.

Its not beyond the realms of believability that he does come off for a couple of months a year.

[Nick Danger]

Can you guys take your bullshit to a more appropriate place...look at the name of this thread.

[flinstones1]

LOL at thinking anyone of these guys is clean  

. These guys bodies don't produce testosterone anymore, probably don't produce GH anymore. . Want an example of who really came clean I'd say look at levrone a couple years ago before he started the transformation youtube shit. . And he looked far smaller than phil ever did, with alot better genetics than phil ever had! phil is not clean lol.