Obligation to identify - Soul Crusher

[Roger Bacon]

What's the deal with a police officer asking for everyones ID during a standard traffic stop for speeding?

I've never had that happen and found it highly offensive, no one in the car had any record or looked like criminals in any way. I can't see how he could have had and reasonable suspicion (or whatever the term is).

Nothing came up, and I was free to go with a warning. In Ohio

Soul Crusher? Cops of getbig?

[Soul Crusher]

What's the deal with a police officer asking for everyones ID during a standard traffic stop for speeding?

I've never had that happen and found it highly offensive, no one in the car had any record or looked like criminals in any way. I can't see how he could have had and reasonable suspicion (or whatever the term is).

Nothing came up, and I was free to go with a warning. In Ohio

Soul Crusher? Cops of getbig?

Ill give you the text book answer or the real answer - whatever you like.   

[Roger Bacon]

Ill give you the text book answer or the real answer - whatever you like.  

lol

Let me guess... You can refuse but then they have reason to fuck wih you even worse?  

The cop made it quick, and didn't ticket me... It just pisses me off, I can't imagine why he would ID anyone but the driver.

This shit pisses me off big time, I can't imagine how you guys put up with stop and frisk.

[240 is Back]

The cops read your lips, "Would love to be in those handcuffs" and quickly decided to let you go.

[Roger Bacon]

The cops read your lips, "Would love to be in those handcuffs" and quickly decided to let you go.

ROFL

[avxo]

What's the deal with a police officer asking for everyones ID during a standard traffic stop for speeding?

I've never had that happen and found it highly offensive, no one in the car had any record or looked like criminals in any way. I can't see how he could have had and reasonable suspicion (or whatever the term is).

Nothing came up, and I was free to go with a warning. In Ohio

Soul Crusher? Cops of getbig?

I don't think the officer has reasonable suspicion to ask but he might be able to fabricate something. Also, depending on the State you live in, there might be stop and identify statutes.

My general policy is to ask if I'm being detained. If the answer is yes, then I (usually) provide my name and date of birth (the minimum information required where I live), and unequivocally state that I do not wish to answer any other questions and do not consent to any search. After that, I keep my mouth shut.

Please don't just follow my example. Read up the statutes where you live, educate yourself and decide how far you want to push to exercise your rights and how much inconvenience you are willing to go through to exercise them

[240 is Back]

In my experience, cops are mostly looking for one thing...

1) Am I dealing with a person who is shady/ disrespectful/ criminal/ drunk/ bad-parent/ wanted/ etc.

You look them in the eye.  You OWN whatever it is you did wrong.  You establish you know your rights but you're not shady.  You request a camera and a supervisor if something is asked of you that you're not comfy with.  

They're scanning with their eyes, just looking for a # of factors to stack up... philly blunts, clothing, shoes, haircuts, kids, items in car, keychain, radio... they're profiling the shit out of you from the second they walk up, playing detective.

"i'm coming home from work, picking up my kid, heading to gym" = productive member of society.
"I forgot my seatbelt, my mistake.  I was speeding, crap, I totally didn't notice.  Sorry" = You OWN your breaking the law.
"I'm not shady, I'm not hiding anything, but I'm not comfy with a search" = Call your boss, it's gonna be a long and fruitless day here.

You'll be fine with those things.  However, if you are slightly buzzed, on your way to buy pot, rolling with a few shady people, blunted senseless, in the middle of road head, or carrying a suitcase of yayo in the trunk... I dunno what the answer is then lol...

[avxo]

In my experience, cops are mostly looking for one thing...

1) Am I dealing with a person who is shady/ disrespectful/ criminal/ drunk/ bad-parent/ wanted/ etc.

You look them in the eye.  You OWN whatever it is you did wrong.  You establish you know your rights but you're not shady.  You request a camera and a supervisor if something is asked of you that you're not comfy with.  

They're scanning with their eyes, just looking for a # of factors to stack up... philly blunts, clothing, shoes, haircuts, kids, items in car, keychain, radio... they're profiling the shit out of you from the second they walk up, playing detective.

"i'm coming home from work, picking up my kid, heading to gym" = productive member of society.
"I forgot my seatbelt, my mistake.  I was speeding, crap, I totally didn't notice.  Sorry" = You OWN your breaking the law.
"I'm not shady, I'm not hiding anything, but I'm not comfy with a search" = Call your boss, it's gonna be a long and fruitless day here.

You'll be fine with those things.  However, if you are slightly buzzed, on your way to buy pot, rolling with a few shady people, blunted senseless, in the middle of road head, or carrying a suitcase of yayo in the trunk... I dunno what the answer is then lol...

I don't get this whole "I admit I broke the law sir" bullshit. The cop isn't there to be your friend, he's not there to help you. Why would you volunteer any information, especially information that allows him to write you a ticket and, essentially, forecloses on your ability to fight the ticket.

It's not the cop's business where I'm coming from or going to. It's not his business if I am a productive member of society or an unemployed homeless person that hasn't eaten in four days. It's not the cop's business what is my trunk. It's not the cop's business why I'm out at 4am. Volunteering information is stupid. It gets you nothing.

People give this advice you give here all the time - just come clean and all will be ok. This mentality has trained cops to expect docile responses and unthinking submission. I just don't get why you would ever do this sort of thing. You have nothing to gain.

[240 is Back]

I don't get this whole "I admit I broke the law sir" bullshit. The cop isn't there to be your friend, he's not there to help you. Why would you volunteer any information, especially information that allows him to write you a ticket and, essentially, forecloses on your ability to fight the ticket.

It's not the cop's business where I'm coming from or going to. It's not his business if I am a productive member of society or an unemployed homeless person that hasn't eaten in four days. It's not the cop's business what is my trunk. It's not the cop's business why I'm out at 4am. Volunteering information is stupid. It gets you nothing.

People give this advice you give here all the time - just come clean and all will be ok. This mentality has trained cops to expect docile responses and unthinking submission. I just don't get why you would ever do this sort of thing. You have nothing to gain.

I can't argue any of this.

I'm just saying from my experience, cops will usually try a little chitchat to ascertain what kind of situation they're looking at.  In my experience, I let them know I'm a working guy, sober and getting from point A to point B, and it's always "have a nice day".   If I said "none of your business" and "on my way to fck some pig's mother", I'd be legally safe but would probaly get whatever ticket he could offer.

And I guess it's also about the extent of what I'm stopped for.   I got stopped for a headlight.   "ya know, I just played a show, and afterwards, everyone was leaning on my hood talking.... I bet it just went". 

He believed me.  Clean cut, hard working, story was true and he told me "here's a warning so the next cop won't ticket you - just fix it up please".   Had I froze up and looked guilty, yeah, he prob would have ticketed me.

However, if I was in the middle of actually doing something shady, heck yeah, I'd clam up and not admit a thing. 

When I got stopped for a seatbelt... "Man, I'm kicking myself... I just left my house, I'm late for getting my kid, yep, I totally didn't think, my mistake"... He said I was the first person today that didn't lie about it, and the first person not getting a ticket for it.  So that was cool.  But yeah, you're right, I can't argue it.  It's just on the small shit, for me, it works... the cops just want to see if I'm up to something bad, or just a good dude that got careless (seat belt) or bad luck (headlight).  I never speed, but if caught, I probably woudln't admit that one.

[Roger Bacon]

Thanks for the input 240, avxo!

I know what you mean 240, that's the stance I've always taken, but I definitely understand avxo's POV.

I've never had a problem with the police at all, the guy wasn't really a dick or anything. He did look like a new cop. As far as I understand, he can ask and I could refuse. I probably should have, but who knows what kind of shit you can get into today. Might end up tased or dead?

I know several high ups, I imagine he would have ended up being the one in trouble. Seems like a lot of hassle for nothing, although I really don't want to live in a society where the police can ID you for no reason.

It would probably greatly benefit our society to work on abolishing more laws (than we create), and modifying laws to take Police officers down a few notches.  

[240 is Back]

I never ever consent to a search.  Once you say yes, they take out seats and mess your shit up.  Take all night.  From what I understand, once you say YES, you cannot stop it.  And they'll use 3part tricky questions to get you to agree... "Nothing to hide, right? youre okay if I search your car?  You're being honest with me, son?"... say that fast enough, and the muttered "yes" to the first or last Q is suddenly consent you can't take back. 

"I do not consent to a search, sorry, call me a lawyer and your sarge and a video camera or the media or I'll start calling, but we aint' doing that, sir".   And then start filming everything (if youre not already) and sending clips to everyone on your list. 

Really, being polite and helpful - but drawing the line at dumping shit from your car - works for me.  If he wants a search, it's no longer a cordial thing, so fucck em... get me a lawyer, I'm begging you to do anything to get me an ACLU paycheck now, sir".

Then again, I'm driving home an hour after the drunks are gone, i'm the only sober dude on the road that late.  if I was partying with two 18 year old stoned wasted chicks, looking for the spot to pick up a bag for a night of debauchery, they'd probably gaffle my ass nonstop, and I'd have a completely diff mindset. 

[Roger Bacon]

I never ever consent to a search.  Once you say yes, they take out seats and mess your shit up.  Take all night.  From what I understand, once you say YES, you cannot stop it.  And they'll use 3part tricky questions to get you to agree... "Nothing to hide, right? youre okay if I search your car?  You're being honest with me, son?"... say that fast enough, and the muttered "yes" to the first or last Q is suddenly consent you can't take back. 

"I do not consent to a search, sorry, call me a lawyer and your sarge and a video camera or the media or I'll start calling, but we aint' doing that, sir".   And then start filming everything (if youre not already) and sending clips to everyone on your list. 

Really, being polite and helpful - but drawing the line at dumping shit from your car - works for me.  If he wants a search, it's no longer a cordial thing, so fucck em... get me a lawyer, I'm begging you to do anything to get me an ACLU paycheck now, sir".

Then again, I'm driving home an hour after the drunks are gone, i'm the only sober dude on the road that late.  if I was partying with two 18 year old stoned wasted chicks, looking for the spot to pick up a bag for a night of debauchery, they'd probably gaffle my ass nonstop, and I'd have a completely diff mindset. 

Oh, definitely! I'd have my attorney on the phone in about three seconds.