Author Topic: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own  (Read 31434 times)

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2014, 08:31:23 AM »
Here's the thing - Obama KNOWS he will get away with it.  He KNOWS the repubs didn't do shit about benghazi, fast & furious, irs, birth certificate, or anything else.

They know it's hard to attack him publicly because it's a soldier... Yes, the extreme right will rightfully call him out for it, but they know it won't play with swing voters.  Have you seen the comments on some of the CNN and FOX news blogs?  So much of the "maybe he abandoned his post, but he was scared in war!" and other kinds of justifications for what he did.

So I think it's a touchy issue to attack obama with in midterms 2014.  Yes, deserter dude is shady... but some people will back him.  Read the comments from people out there - SO MANY are soft on him deserting.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2014, 08:35:31 AM »
Here's the thing - Obama KNOWS he will get away with it.  He KNOWS the repubs didn't do shit about benghazi, fast & furious, irs, birth certificate, or anything else.

They know it's hard to attack him publicly because it's a soldier... Yes, the extreme right will rightfully call him out for it, but they know it won't play with swing voters.  Have you seen the comments on some of the CNN and FOX news blogs?  So much of the "maybe he abandoned his post, but he was scared in war!" and other kinds of justifications for what he did.

So I think it's a touchy issue to attack obama with in midterms 2014.  Yes, deserter dude is shady... but some people will back him.  Read the comments from people out there - SO MANY are soft on him deserting.

That is because they worship Obama as cultists and blind koolaiders over anything else - just like the last of the hiterl youth in Berlin

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2014, 08:39:51 AM »
 :(

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2014, 08:41:29 AM »

Col. David Hunt: US Lost 14 SOLDIERS Searching for Deserter Bowe Bergdahl (Video)

Posted by Jim Hoft on Tuesday, June 3, 2014, 12:22 AM
 


Free at Last – SGT Bowe Bergdahl Released
Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl was released by the Taliban Saturday in a prisoner swap.
bergdahl
 Bergdahl was the only living POW held by the Taliban. He was captured by the Taliban in 2009 in Afghanistan.

Colonel David Hunt told Bill O’Reilly tonight that Bowe Bergdahl was a deserter.


“Bowe Bergdahl was a deserter. Bergdahl on June 20, 2009 crawled underneath a wire at his fire base with water, food, a change of clothes, a knife and a cell phone. He called his unit the day after he deserted to tell his unit he deserted… Bill, we lost 14 soldiers, killed, searching for a deserter. He left his unit in combat. It’s non-arguable… We don’t know yet if he joined the Taliban or not. But, there’s no question he deserted.



There were already reports of at least five US heroes who were lost looking for Bowe Bergdahl:

ALL KILLED IN ACTION SEARCHING FOR BERGDAHL:
•PFC Matthew Michael Martinek,Died September 11, 2009 Serving During Operation Enduring Freedom 20, of DeKalb, Ill.; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska; died Sept. 11 at Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, Germany, of wounds sustained in Paktika province, Afghanistan, Sept. 4 when enemy forces attacked his vehicle with an improvised-explosive device followed by a rocket-propelled grenade and small arms fire.
•Staff Sgt. Kurt Robert Curtiss,Died August 26, 2009 Serving During Operation Enduring Freedom 27, of Murray, Utah; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska; died Aug. 26 in Sar Howzeh, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when he was shot while his unit was supporting Afghan security forces during an enemy attack.
•SSG Clayton Bowen,Died August 18, 2009 Serving During Operation Enduring Freedom 29, of San Antonio; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Airborne Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska; died Aug. 18 in Dila, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his vehicle. Also killed was Pfc. Morris L. Walker.
•PFC Morris Walker,Died August 18, 2009 Serving During Operation Enduring Freedom 23, of Chapel Hill, N.C.; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Airborne Brigade Combat Team, 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska; died Aug. 18 in Dila, Afghanistan, of wounds sustained when an improvised explosive device detonated near his vehicle. Also killed was Staff Sgt. Clayton P. Bowen.
•SSG Michael Murphrey,Died September 6, 2009 Serving During Operation Enduring Freedom 25, of Snyder, Texas; assigned to the 1st Battalion, 501st Parachute Infantry Regiment, 4th Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), 25th Infantry Division, Fort Richardson, Alaska; died Sept. 6 in FOB Sharana, Afghanistan, of wounds suffered when enemy forces attacked his unit with an improvised explosive device. were ALL KIA FROM OUR UNIT WHO DIED LOOKING FOR Bergdahl .

•Many others from various units were wounded or killed while actively looking for Bergdahl.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2014, 10:42:10 AM »
Dude (Berg-whateva) does sound like a POS of some sort.

Nevertheless, it's gotta make a significant percentage of folks who have family serving in the armed services feel good to know that even if their loved one isn't the best soldier/sailor/airman, he or she will not be forgotten if captured and every effort will be made to bring them back.  --  When your armed forces are totally made up of volunteers, that's gotta count for something...

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2014, 10:49:19 AM »
Dude (Berg-whateva) does sound like a POS of some sort.

Nevertheless, it's gotta make a significant percentage of folks who have family serving in the armed services feel good to know that even if their loved one isn't the best soldier/sailor/airman, he or she will not be forgotten if captured and every effort will be made to bring them back.  --  When your armed forces are totally made up of volunteers, that's gotta count for something...

The dumbass walked off an FOB in A-stan, what the fuck did he think was going to happen to him? So because he is a fucking moron, 14 soldiers get killed and the US released 5 Muj, hope this asshole spends his remaining days as an oxygen thief at levenworth
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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2014, 10:52:01 AM »
The dumbass walked off an FOB in A-stan, what the fuck did he think was going to happen to him? So because he is a fucking moron, 14 soldiers get killed and the US released 5 Muj, hope this asshole spends his remaining days as an oxygen thief at levenworth

A court martial would seem to be in his future.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #60 on: June 03, 2014, 10:52:22 AM »

Anger explodes over treatment of Bergdahl’s release as veterans, troops call him a deserter

By Hannah Allam and Jonathan S. Landay

McClatchy Washington BureauJune 2, 2014 Updated 17 hours ago
 



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Captured Solider

This undated image provided by the U.S. Army shows Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, whose release was part of a negotiation that includes the release of five Afghan detainees held in the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

UNCREDITED — ASSOCIATED PRESS

















   

WASHINGTON — For all the yellow ribbons strewn across his hometown in Idaho and the gratitude expressed by his parents in an emotional visit to the White House on Saturday, it’s looking increasingly unlikely that Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl will receive a hero’s welcome when he returns to the United States after nearly five years in Taliban captivity.

From military forums across the country, a groundswell of anger is rising over the Obama administration’s silence on perhaps the most controversial question surrounding the deal that freed Bergdahl in exchange for five senior Taliban members: Was he a deserter?

So far, the U.S. government has shied away from the long-nagging question, which raged anew Monday with growing clamor on the Internet about the circumstances of Bergdahl’s disappearance from his unit’s small forward position in Afghanistan on June 30, 2009.

Military-related blogs, Twitter accounts and Facebook pages were filled with screeds from commenters accusing Bergdahl of being a “traitor” or a Taliban “collaborator.” The online publication The Daily Beast published a nearly 2,000-word first-person account by a former Army infantry officer who said he was privy to details of Bergdahl’s disappearance and who stated flatly that “he was a deserter, and soldiers from his own unit died trying to track him down.”

The mother of one of six soldiers who’ve been identified as being killed in circumstances related to the search for Bergdahl was furious over the opaque handling of the case, telling Army Times that the Pentagon “really owes the parents of these fallen soldiers the truth.”

But instead of addressing the desertion issue head-on, complained many military analysts and war veterans, the Obama administration is allowing the debate to fester, only deepening the skepticism of current and former service members who demand to know how Bergdahl left his unit, how many U.S. forces were killed in the search effort, and whether there are plans to conduct a legal review of his case and, if necessary, prosecute him.

Michael Waltz, who as an Army major commanded U.S. Special Forces in eastern Afghanistan at the time Bergdahl disappeared, said the sergeant deserted and shouldn’t have been accorded POW status.

“He just walked off after guard duty and wandered into the nearby village,” Waltz told McClatchy in an interview Monday. “This guy needs to be held accountable when the time is right, of course. Every American deserves to come home. I’m happy for his family. But he needs to be held accountable.”

Angry commentators took special aim at National Security Adviser Susan Rice’s televised remarks Sunday that Bergdahl “served the United States with honor and distinction.” They also bristled at Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel’s surprise visit Sunday to Afghanistan, where he praised the operation that freed Bergdahl but never mentioned the desertion issue before an audience of U.S. service members who undoubtedly have seen the debate swirling around the case.

Even military voices warning against trying Bergdahl in the court of public opinion say the Obama administration owes its enlisted men and women more transparency.

“Hagel hopped up on stage saying, ‘Oh, it’s a great day. We got him back.’ Crickets. Crickets,” said Fred Wellman, a retired lieutenant colonel who as spokesman for Army Gen. David Petraeus in Iraq handled the communications on many crises that reflected poorly on the U.S. military.

Wellman said his advice to defense officials would be to acknowledge the concerns of the enlisted ranks and veterans, to explain that there’s a plan to deal with the legal implications, and to stress that the most important focus now is restoring Bergdahl to health and reuniting him with his family in Idaho after nearly five years in the hands of a brutal enemy of the United States.

“They’re really underestimating the fury over this,” Wellman said. “It’s a tidal wave of anger.”

At White House, State Department and Pentagon briefings, reporters asked directly whether Bergdahl was a deserter. Officials all offered variations of the same talking point: “We would characterize him as a member of the military who was detained while in combat,” State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said Monday.

The questions also didn’t dampen enthusiasm for Bergdahl’s return in his hometown of Hailey, Idaho, where planning for a welcome event at the end of the month were proceeding. “For now, we’re going to keep the politics out of Hailey and focus on the news that Bowe was found, and he is safe,” said Stefanie O’Neill, a co-organizer of the group “Bring Bowe Back,” now renamed “Bowe is Back.”

O’Neill said she hasn’t had any cancellations from those slated to perform, including singer Carole King and Travis Hardy Band. Bergdahl’s parents, Bob and Jani, also are expected to attend.

“I think the event is growing, as opposed to diminishing, through all of this,” said O’Neill, a stay-at-home mother of two who estimates she’s done 70 interviews with local, national and international media over the past two days.

When asked about the questions swirling around Bergdahl’s capture at a news conference at Boise’s National Guard facility Sunday, Ralph Kramer, the director of the Boise Valley POW MIA support organization, had a simple response: “We’re happy he’s home.”





Waltz, the former Special Forces commander, said the enthusiasm for Bergdahl’s return should be tempered by knowledge of his actions, which Waltz said jeopardized the lives of thousands of U.S. troops who were redeployed to prevent the Taliban from taking him across the border into Pakistan’s tribal area, where they, al Qaida and other Islamic extremist groups have bases.

“Men and women were diverted by the thousands,” he said. “Every soldier who was in the province where he was deployed was told to stop what they were doing and to look for him. It went on for at least weeks. We were receiving a lot of conflicting information about whether he was over the border or not.”

Regular U.S. troops set up checkpoints along the border, and Waltz said his Special Forces units swept towns and villages looking for Bergdahl. He said they were lured into ambushes and booby-trapped homes because the Taliban knew about the manhunt and were able to mobilize.

“The soldiers he was with, the soldiers who were in that country and the soldiers who didn’t get to come home are owed an explanation,” Waltz said. “I don’t personally believe that he should be in the same category as the Americans who were in the Bataan Death March (during World War II) and the aviators who were shot down over Vietnam. He needs to be held to account.”

Other veterans of U.S. wars warned, however, that the high-pitched tenor of the desertion debate is harmful to the military’s reputation and damaging to the age-old ethos of never leaving a service member behind. Like him or not, the more muted camp said, Bergdahl was captured by the enemy, endured untold hardships, and must first be repatriated and rehabilitated before it’s appropriate to discuss punitive action.

“He doesn’t even know how to speak English again yet and we’re already talking about trials and what he could face. Now is not the time,” said Alex Horton, 28, a former Army infantryman from Dallas who was deployed to Iraq. Horton said he doesn’t consider Bergdahl a hero, but also opposes the piling on when Bergdahl has been free for only a couple of days.

“This guy was a POW for five years _ not a German POW eating wiener schnitzel and drinking brandy _ he was most likely brainwashed and tortured,” Horton said. “Without a doubt this guy has been through some awful hardships and you have to think: how much further can this guy be punished?”



Analysts say the legal side of Bergdahl’s homecoming could have far-reaching implications for trust in the fairness of the military’s justice system, which already is under attack for its handling of sexual abuse cases. And, of course, a legal review could affect Bergdahl personally, determining his eventual discharge status, eligibility for health benefits, whether he gets to keep the pay he accumulated over nearly five years, and whether he should face any punitive measures in the case of a desertion determination.

Eugene R. Fidell, an expert on the Uniform Code of Military Justice who teaches at Yale Law School, said it’s important to remember that it’s “completely discretionary” as to whether commanders decide to prosecute any reported violation. He said there must be an official preliminary report of an offense even though, in Bergdahl’s case, “there’s certainly enough already known to suggest that an act of desertion was committed.”



An initial report, Fidell said, would be followed by a series of steps that determine how a case will proceed, such as whether it’s handled administratively without involving courts or is sent all the way to a general court martial. Fidell notes that Bergdahl almost certainly “has something to trade” – five years of up-close observation of the Taliban, one of the world’s most persistent militant groups. Any hypothetical defense team would be sure to argue that Bergdahl already has suffered enough as an apparent hostage.



“There’s a dramatic set of pushes and pulls in this, such as whether lives were lost in this,” Fidell said. “If it turns out to be not ‘Saving Private Ryan’ but ‘Saving Private Ryan who was a deserter,’ that’s a little different.”

Contributing to this report were James Rosen and Lindsay Wise from Washington and Katy Moeller of the Idaho Statesman from Boise.

Read more here: http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2014/06/02/229148/anger-explodes-over-treatment.html#storylink=cpy

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #61 on: June 03, 2014, 10:53:07 AM »
A court martial would seem to be in his future.

An execution should be in his future.......
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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #62 on: June 03, 2014, 10:53:55 AM »
I'm glad we got him back.  Now he can sit in jail over court martial in the country he disgraced.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #63 on: June 03, 2014, 10:54:37 AM »
anyone that knows the facts is calling him a traitor.  but i'm telling you, look at the comments on the new stories.  "oh, he was probably scared.  Oh, he was in battle.  Oh, he was young and confused".

Right has to be careful not to demonize him too much - despite the fact he is a traitor.  Have a trial and lock him up for life, YES, but if they just play to use him for their own PR/talking points for a week, then forget about it, that's a huge risk.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #64 on: June 03, 2014, 10:57:08 AM »
Why is the USA negotiating and trading with terrorists?  Isn't that a No No?  This only encourages terrorists even more and gives them the impression that they can get their way if only they have hostages to trade for their demands.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #65 on: June 03, 2014, 10:57:35 AM »
anyone that knows the facts is calling him a traitor.  but i'm telling you, look at the comments on the new stories.  "oh, he was probably scared.  Oh, he was in battle.  Oh, he was young and confused".

Right has to be careful not to demonize him too much - despite the fact he is a traitor.  Have a trial and lock him up for life, YES, but if they just play to use him for their own PR/talking points for a week, then forget about it, that's a huge risk.

Yeah OK, If I'm scared the first thing I'm going to do is wander off my base in A-Stan unarmed  ::).
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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #66 on: June 03, 2014, 11:01:24 AM »
I'm glad we got him back.  Now he can sit in jail over court martial in the country he disgraced.

Won't happen.  The white house has gone out of its way to make a hero out of this man.  To radically change course and condemn him would do nothing but make the white house appear the duped fool.
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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #67 on: June 03, 2014, 11:21:55 AM »
An execution should be in his future.......

Couldn't agree more.

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #69 on: June 03, 2014, 11:58:55 AM »
 
"You don't mail all your personal belongings home, especially your computer. It's not like you can go to a sports bar -- there's no sports bars over there," says Specialist Full. "You just wouldn't give up your computer if you weren't planning to leave. He knowingly deserted and he put countless fellow Americans in danger -- not just his platoon mates."

If there is little question in the minds of the former members of Bergdahl's unit that he was a deserter, it's not clear that the military came to that same conclusion—at least formally.   

Current and former military and intelligence officials tell THE WEEKLY STANDARD that the U.S. Army conducted an exhaustive investigation into Bergdahl's separation from his platoon. The investigation, undertaken by an officer from outside of the unit and called an AR 15-6, involved sworn testimony from virtually everyone who had regular contact with Bergdahl. The soldiers in Bergdahl's platoon were questioned repeatedly by investigators. Many were ordered to sign non-disclosure agreements, a step that a former senior military official calls "highly unusual."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/we-swore-oath-and-we-upheld-ours-he-did-not_794093.html#



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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #70 on: June 03, 2014, 12:57:06 PM »
Yeah OK, If I'm scared the first thing I'm going to do is wander off my base in A-Stan unarmed  ::).

hey man, i agree with you 100%.   But as I was telling the wifey about this story, she was a tad liberal about it.  Usually she's quite neocon on lots of issues lol.  But this time, she's all like "How many years did he serve before it?  It could be Post-traumatic" and "people do crazy things when scared" and "probably just undiagnosed mental illness", etc.  I was all like, "Die, you worthless lib!" as I was taught on getbig, and she took her luggage and moved out, so I think it worked out well. 

Point is, I think there will be a softness for him that other traitors don't see, and any politicians that go at him hard in the press may suffer because of the people that sympathize with him (and i"m not one of them lol).

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #71 on: June 03, 2014, 02:22:32 PM »
About 6 months after this is settles they'll get him on the 15-6 and everything will be done quietly. A deal could be done to just keep him quiet and his dad quiet but they're going to do somthing
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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #72 on: June 03, 2014, 02:26:16 PM »

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #73 on: June 03, 2014, 02:42:43 PM »
Gen. Dempsey: Army may still pursue desertion charge for Bowe Bergdahl
DAVID ZUCCHINO

The Army may consider pursuing an investigation of possible charges of desertion or other violations by Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl, who was freed Saturday after nearly five years in Taliban custody, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff said Tuesday.

Army Gen. Martin Dempsey noted that U.S. military leaders "have been accused of looking away from misconduct.” Dempsey said that was "premature" in the case of Bergdahl, who has been accused of desertion by former members of his unit in Afghanistan for abandoning his post during a combat deployment.

The remarks, in a telephone interview with the Associated Press, were Dempsey’s first public comment on Bergdahl since he was freed Saturday in exchange for the transfer to Qatar of five Taliban commanders held at the U.S. prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

In a separate posting on Facebook, Dempsey said of Bergdahl:

"Like any American, he is innocent until proven guilty. Our Army’s leaders will not look away from misconduct if it occurred."

Any decision on disciplinary measures will be up to the Army, Dempsey said in the interview. He said he does not want to pre-judge Bergdahl or say anything that might influence Army commanders.

In the Facebook post, Dempsey said in response to "those of you interested in my personal judgments about the recovery of SGT. Bowe Bergdahl, the questions about this particular soldier’s conduct are separate from our effort to recover ANY U.S. service member in enemy captivity."

He added: "This was likely the last, best opportunity to free him."

Several members of Congress have criticized the prisoner swap, described as a "transfer" by the Obama administration. Critics said the administration caved in to Taliban demands and raised the ransom price for any future U.S. service member captured by insurgents, and also failed to properly notify Congress of prisoner releases.

Dempsey said he had not spoken to Bergdahl or his parents since the soldier’s release. The military is expected to learn more about the circumstances of Bergdahl’s disappearance and captivity by questioning him.

He is undergoing evaluation at a U.S. military hospital in Landstuhl, Germany, and has not had direct contact with his parents in Idaho.

Bergdahl, 28, left a small observation post in eastern Afghanistan in the early morning hours of June 30, 2009, without informing anyone, three former members of his 30-man platoon said in interviews Monday. In his one-man tent, they said, they found Berghdahl’s rifle, helmet, body armor, night-vision goggles and other gear neatly stacked.

The former soldiers said Bergdahl had expressed disillusionment with the way the Army was conducting the U.S. combat mission in Afghanistan and had made off-hand comments about walking into the mountains or walking to India.

Calling Bergdahl a deserter, the soldiers said he should be held accountable for possible violations of the Uniform Code of Military Justice. They contended that several U.S. service members died in direct or indirect connection with the massive 90-day search for the missing sergeant.

The Pentagon has not confirmed that any deaths were related to the search for Bergdahl.

In the Facebook post, Dempsey said: "I want to thank those who for almost five years worked to find him, prepared to rescue him, and ultimately put themselves at risk to recover him."

Dempsey said in the interview that Bergdahl, a private, who was promoted to sergeant during his captivity, will no longer be automatically promoted to staff sergeant because he is now free.

New signs hang at Zaney's coffee house in Hailey, Idaho, after the announcement that U.S. Army Sgt. Bowe Bergdahl had been released from captivity.
Soldiers missing in action are normally promoted on the same schedule as their peers. But for Bergdahl, "his status has now changed, and therefore the requirements for promotion are more consistent with normal duty status," Dempsey said.

Bergdahl could face court-martial if the Army uncovers sufficient evidence of desertion, said Eugene Fidell, who teaches military law at Yale Law School. The Army might also decide to separate Bergdahl from the service through administrative procedures.

Any physical or psychological trauma could make Bergdahl unfit for continued service, Fidell said. If so, the Army would likely begin the process of arranging for retirement, medical care and other benefits.

Because the U.S. is not formally at war with the Taliban — Congress authorized military force against terrorists — a soldier serving in Afghanistan would not face the death penalty if convicted of desertion, Fidell said. The maximum penalty under these circumstances is five years in prison and a dishonorable discharge for "intent to avoid hazardous duty or shirk important service," Fidell said.

The maximum penalty for a soldier absent without leave for less than 30 days is six months in prison. The penalty is one year in jail (or 18 months if the soldier has to be apprehended) and a dishonorable discharge for AW0L more than 30 days Fidell said.

Fidell said the military may decide that, regardless of any offenses Bergdahl may have committed, he suffered nearly five years in enemy custody and should not be punished further.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-dempsey-deserter-soldier-20140603-story.html

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Re: Trading Terrorists for One of Our Own
« Reply #74 on: June 03, 2014, 04:00:13 PM »
I've been watching a lot of interviews today with vet after vet who served with this guy, talking about him being a deserter.  If it turns out to be true, f_ck him.  Turn him back over.