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Author Topic: Liberal Hypocrisy  (Read 24640 times)
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« Reply #25 on: July 23, 2014, 09:59:13 AM »

You are truly a dunce aren't you?

He spent 20 million and made about 17.5 million in revenue

Have one of your 8th graders do the math for you

Are you business inept? He didn't spend shit, no one seeking approval from INVESTORS uses their own money to fund a movie...lol. Are you shitting me? Every movie made is business risk because IT'S A BUSINESS. I'm sure his negotiations included his salary (like most ventures) plus a percentage of the movie proceeds. If there is no profit from the movie, he makes nothing FROM THE MOVIE. Understand?  
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« Reply #26 on: July 23, 2014, 10:00:08 AM »

He engages in the very behavior he rails against. 

that makes no sense based on that video you posted or anything in that the adults here are talking about

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« Reply #27 on: July 23, 2014, 10:04:34 AM »

Are you business inept? He didn't spend shit, no one seeking approval for INVESTORS uses their own money to fund a movie...lol. Are you shitting me? Every movie made is business risk because IT'S A BUSINESS. I'm sure his negotiations included his salary (like most ventures) plus a percentage of the movie proceeds. If there is no profit from the movie, he makes nothing FROM THE MOVIE. Understand?  

I'm well aware that people invest in movies

he may or may not have had investors but that doesn't mean the movie didn't lose money

also, since he and his wife produced it and it's a condemnation of the abuses of capitalism I suspect it was self financed (he certainly could afford the 20 million budget himself)

If you have some actual proof that he made money on this film then post it
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« Reply #28 on: July 23, 2014, 10:23:34 AM »

Thats completely besides the point retard...the point is is that he HAS become wealthy off his movies- through pure capitalism. The fact that he made a movie disparaging capitalism and the wealthy is the height of irony
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« Reply #29 on: July 23, 2014, 10:25:17 AM »

Thats completely besides the point retard...the point is is that he HAS become wealthy off his movies- through pure capitalism. The fact that he made a movie disparaging capitalism and the wealthy is the height of irony

lack of reading comprehension much?

Go back to my first post on this thread

How is Moore "anti-capitalist"

Just because he criticizes the criminality of Wall Street and has issues with income inequality, wealth disparity, etc. doesn't make him "anti-capitalist"

I'm pretty sure you have to pay to see his movies

Just more bullshit from the right wing echo chamber

The question I have is do they know this meme is bullshit or are they really this stupid?
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« Reply #30 on: July 23, 2014, 10:26:11 AM »

he actually lost money

I assume you're aware of the difference between revenue and profit

If you aren't aware of some of the abuses of our current form of capitalism then you're most definitely part of the herd that is being fleeced

LOL!  are you sitting here telling me that you believe that Michael Moore actually paid out of his own pocket to have that movie made?  AND HE PAID OUT MORE THAN HE MADE?

you're a fucking idiot. 
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« Reply #31 on: July 23, 2014, 10:28:42 AM »

I'm well aware that people invest in movies

he may or may not have had investors but that doesn't mean the movie didn't lose money

also, since he and his wife produced it and it's a condemnation of the abuses of capitalism I suspect it was self financed (he certainly could afford the 20 million budget himself)
If you have some actual proof that he made money on this film then post it

oh god.  please just stop.
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« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2014, 10:32:50 AM »

Was he railing against the entire concept of capitalism or a facet or what he sees as an abuses with-in the frame work capitalism?

Like i said, if he's a member of the communist party promoting it and such, then YES he's a hypocrite.  But criticizing abuses?  NO.

That's like calling me a Raider fan if i say the Niner's O-line was over rated in 2013.

The entire concept:

Capitalism is an organized system to guarantee that greed becomes the primary force of our economic system and allows the few at the top to get very wealthy and has the rest of us riding around thinking we can be that way, too - if we just work hard enough, sell enough Tupperware and Amway products, we can get a pink Cadillac.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/michaelmoo580038.html#pyywPmHGUHBi2XRW.99

Capitalism is against the things that we say we believe in - democracy, freedom of choice, fairness. It's not about any of those things now. It's about protecting the wealthy and legalizing greed.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/michaelmoo579994.html

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« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2014, 10:40:43 AM »

The entire concept:

Capitalism is an organized system to guarantee that greed becomes the primary force of our economic system and allows the few at the top to get very wealthy and has the rest of us riding around thinking we can be that way, too - if we just work hard enough, sell enough Tupperware and Amway products, we can get a pink Cadillac.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/michaelmoo580038.html#pyywPmHGUHBi2XRW.99

Capitalism is against the things that we say we believe in - democracy, freedom of choice, fairness. It's not about any of those things now. It's about protecting the wealthy and legalizing greed.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/m/michaelmoo579994.html



Looks to me that's he criticizing capitalism, NOT denouncing it.

Here's some other quotes of his from the same site:

Quote
I'm tired of this discussion of capitalism and socialism; we live in the 21st century, we need an economic system that has democracy as its underpinnings and an ethical code.

If I were a capitalist I would not give my employees health insurance with no deductible, which I do, including dental, and paid pregnancy leave. That's not called capitalism, that's called being a Christian and someone who believes in democracy, so that everyone should get a fair slice of the pie.

Here's what I don't think works: An economic system that was founded in the 16th century and another that was founded in the 19th century.

Does Michael Moore say:  No one should be wealthy, all wealth belongs to the people blah blah?   NO.
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« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2014, 10:44:05 AM »

Looks to me that's he criticizing capitalism, NOT denouncing it.

Here's some other quotes of his from the same site:

Does Michael Moore say:  No one should be wealthy, all wealth belongs to the people blah blah?   NO.


Dude you are splitting hairs.
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« Reply #35 on: July 23, 2014, 10:46:52 AM »

Dude you are splitting hairs.

lol  You are clumping then all together and using a wide brush.

 
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« Reply #36 on: July 23, 2014, 10:52:27 AM »

lol  You are clumping then all together and using a wide brush.

 

His comments were a broad brush.  I don't see how you read that first quote and don't see a contradiction between that and the fact get used that kind of commentary to become the very thing he condemned.
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« Reply #37 on: July 23, 2014, 10:52:51 AM »

How does tacking other peoples' money giving it to the govt for more taxes create more jobs?   LOL - only two californication nut cakes can explain that one.  

Just curious here:  SC, you ever been to CA?
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« Reply #38 on: July 23, 2014, 11:09:10 AM »

His comments were a broad brush.  I don't see how you read that first quote and don't see a contradiction between that and the fact get used that kind of commentary to become the very thing he condemned.

His comments?  Uh, OK.

What about the message of the movie?  Did you see it?

I haven't seen the movie* but from what I've read, it's primarily an indictment of the banking industry.

*I do want to see the movie now since it seems to have received generally good reviews (better than the ones I remembered from when it first came out).

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« Reply #39 on: July 23, 2014, 11:12:55 AM »

His comments were a broad brush.  I don't see how you read that first quote and don't see a contradiction between that and the fact get used that kind of commentary to become the very thing he condemned.

If you pick out 1 or 2 quotes about Capitalism you then need to look at all his comments on the subject to put them in the context of his main point:

Which is "pure" Capitalism has flaws.

Also in order for you to validate the charge of hypocrisy i think you need to establish that he's a communist first.  If anything he seems to be a socialist.

 
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« Reply #40 on: July 23, 2014, 11:15:02 AM »

LOL!  are you sitting here telling me that you believe that Michael Moore actually paid out of his own pocket to have that movie made?  AND HE PAID OUT MORE THAN HE MADE?

you're a fucking idiot. 

Feel free to show me that he didn't have an investment in the movie

BTW - stop the hysterics.   The movie itself LOST MONEY.  You seem to be unaware that happens sometimes (quite often actually)

You're aware that the movie theatres get a cut of the ticket sales (apparently 50% is standard) and then you take away marketing, production and distribution expenses and then Moore would have a % of the what is left (depending on whatever the agreement was with the distributor).   Now if that # is negative that what does he make?

Again, try to keep in mind (I know this is asking a lot of you) that I have said from the beginning of this thread that the guy is not "anti-capitalist" and I'm sure his goal with movies is ALWAYS to make money
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« Reply #41 on: July 23, 2014, 11:36:49 AM »

Torch Lake is very beautiful for sure. It's in Antrim County, one of the poorest in Mi, if not the poorest. Point being, there are rich and  poor and middle class people that live on and use Torch Lake. He is not well liked by too many people,( I live nearby Torch Lake and people talk all the time about him and Bruce Willis and Eminem and lots of other famous people who live on Torch or send their kids to the Interlochen Academy like Willis did )

He puts on the Traverse City film festival every year - about now actually - it brings in a lot to the local economy for sure, he goes out spewing his anti- America capitalism BS to the common people on the street too. The guy is no friend to " blue collar Joe" out there. Why don't these people like him and other celebs who preach what is good and just and equal for all of us live in the non- gated communities all of us live in - ?  WITHOUT their guns and SUV's .... ?   I don't think he would last 2 minutes in a true "blue collar" type of job- yeah former auto worker I hear    Roll Eyes

He personifies HYPOCRITE
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« Reply #42 on: July 23, 2014, 11:40:15 AM »

If you pick out 1 or 2 quotes about Capitalism you then need to look at all his comments on the subject to put them in the context of his main point:

Which is "pure" Capitalism has flaws.

Also in order for you to validate the charge of hypocrisy i think you need to establish that he's a communist first.  If anything he seems to be a socialist.

 

He couldn't have been criticizing pure capitalism, because we don't have pure capitalism in this country.  He was criticizing our current, heavily regulated capitalist system that "allows the few at the top to get very wealthy and has the rest of us riding around thinking we can be that way, too - if we just work hard enough, sell enough Tupperware and Amway products, we can get a pink Cadillac."

He's not the "rest of us."  He's one of "the few at the top to get very wealthy," pushing a message condemning those "few at the top to get very wealthy."  Blatant contradiction.  

And who said I have to show he is a communist?  I just need to show he profited off the very system he condemned, which I've done using his own words.  
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« Reply #43 on: July 23, 2014, 11:41:14 AM »

His comments?  Uh, OK.

What about the message of the movie?  Did you see it?

I haven't seen the movie* but from what I've read, it's primarily an indictment of the banking industry.

*I do want to see the movie now since it seems to have received generally good reviews (better than the ones I remembered from when it first came out).



Uh, yeah, his comments. 

No I haven't seen "the movie."  Why are you asking me about it if you've never seen it? 
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« Reply #44 on: July 23, 2014, 11:50:06 AM »

He couldn't have been criticizing pure capitalism, because we don't have pure capitalism in this country.  He was criticizing our current, heavily regulated capitalist system that "allows the few at the top to get very wealthy and has the rest of us riding around thinking we can be that way, too - if we just work hard enough, sell enough Tupperware and Amway products, we can get a pink Cadillac."

He's not the "rest of us."  He's one of "the few at the top to get very wealthy," pushing a message condemning those "few at the tope to get very wealthy."  Blatant contradiction.  


Yeah, he criticizing what he sees as a unfair disparity caused by "our" present form of imperfect capitalism between the rich and large corporations (things like outsourcing) and ordinary people.  However, even with that, he was able to become wealthy.  So what?  

Quote
And who said I have to show he is a communist?  I just need to show he profited off the very system he condemned, which I've done using his own words.

Me.  Your charge holds water if he's a communist, otherwise its basic right wing propaganda at Mike
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« Reply #45 on: July 23, 2014, 11:55:05 AM »

Yeah, he criticizing what he sees as a unfair disparity caused by "our" present form of imperfect capitalism between the rich and large corporations and ordinary people.  However, even with that, he was able to become wealthy.  So what? 

Me.  Your charge holds water if he's a communist, otherwise its basic right wing propaganda at Mike

I don't care if he gets wealthy.  And I don't care if he gets wealthy pushing an anti-capitalist message.  It just makes him a hypocrite. 

Ok.  I disagree.  I'm not using rightwing propaganda.  Nothing I've posted is false. 
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« Reply #46 on: July 23, 2014, 12:12:22 PM »

I don't care if he gets wealthy.  And I don't care if he gets wealthy pushing an anti-capitalist message.  It just makes him a hypocrite. 

Ok.  I disagree.  I'm not using rightwing propaganda.  Nothing I've posted is false. 

Its not a anti-capitalism message that says people shouldn't become wealthy.  Unless of course you cherry pick certain comments that you take out of context to support your invalid charge.
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« Reply #47 on: July 23, 2014, 02:00:24 PM »

I'm well aware that people invest in movies

he may or may not have had investors but that doesn't mean the movie didn't lose money

also, since he and his wife produced it and it's a condemnation of the abuses of capitalism I suspect it was self financed (he certainly could afford the 20 million budget himself)

If you have some actual proof that he made money on this film then post it

Holy shit, really? He has a worth of $50mil and the movie cost $20mil. You really think he's going to risk his own money. Btw, pretty sure that isn't $50mil liquid. Straw, here's a thought. Go to your local juco and enroll in business 101. Start there. If you don't know anything about business you shouldn't speak about capitalism. Fuck!
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« Reply #48 on: July 23, 2014, 02:28:59 PM »

Feel free to show me that he didn't have an investment in the movie

BTW - stop the hysterics.   The movie itself LOST MONEY.  You seem to be unaware that happens sometimes (quite often actually)

You're aware that the movie theatres get a cut of the ticket sales (apparently 50% is standard) and then you take away marketing, production and distribution expenses and then Moore would have a % of the what is left (depending on whatever the agreement was with the distributor).   Now if that # is negative that what does he make?

Again, try to keep in mind (I know this is asking a lot of you) that I have said from the beginning of this thread that the guy is not "anti-capitalist" and I'm sure his goal with movies is ALWAYS to make money


this post is so full of stupid I don't even know where to start.
 you really need to go to college.

I guarantee you..........GUARANTEE you that Michael Moore's compensation was not based upon the net income of the venture.  you would have to be a fucking idiot to believe that.  Michael Moore's compensation was an expense of the venture to arrive at net income.  do you know anything about accounting?  you're really unfucking believable.  the guy is worth $50 million and you think he would make a deal like that? 

and just so we're clear.  do you believe that Michael Moore made this movie and made ZERO money?  better yet, do you believe he paid money out of his own pocket to make this movie that grossed over $14 million dollars? 

jesus fucking H Christ someone please just fucking shoot me!
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« Reply #49 on: July 23, 2014, 02:38:35 PM »

Holy shit, really? He has a worth of $50mil and the movie cost $20mil. You really think he's going to risk his own money. Btw, pretty sure that isn't $50mil liquid. Straw, here's a thought. Go to your local juco and enroll in business 101. Start there. If you don't know anything about business you shouldn't speak about capitalism. Fuck!

I actually have a degree in finance and work in the field (not that it's needed for this conversation given that you're a glorified gym teacher)

scroll back to the top of this page and you'll see this quote from me

I'm well aware that people invest in movies

he may or may not have had investors but that doesn't mean the movie didn't lose money

also, since he and his wife produced it and it's a condemnation of the abuses of capitalism I suspect it was self financed (he certainly could afford the 20 million budget himself)

If you have some actual proof that he made money on this film then post it

Are you aware the Francis Ford Coppola mortgaged his properties to make The God Father and that he financed Apocalypse Now himself because no studio would touch it.   I'm sure you remember that Sado Masochistic snuff film, The Passion of the Christ.  Mel Gibson famously financed that via his production company. 

So yes, people put money into their own films.  It happens all the time.

And like I've pointed out three times now, the film lost money and I'm sure that was not Moores intention.

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