Author Topic: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies  (Read 5010 times)

Straw Man

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #25 on: August 06, 2014, 02:21:32 PM »
Brady Campaign-founded in 1974 under name 'National Council to Control Hanguns'

1980 changed name to "Handgun Control, Inc"

2001 changed name yet again to "Brady Campaign to Prevent Handgun Violence"

Nelson Shields, chairman from 1978-1989, said...quote.."the first problem is to slow down the number of handguns being sold and produced in this country. The second is to get handguns registered. and the final problem is to make the possession of ALL handguns and ALL handgun ammunition-except for the military, police licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors- totally illegal"

Shields estimate it would take ten years to "reach the goal of total control of handguns in the united states"


Theres a little bit for you idiots. Im sure theres plenty more but im not gonna dig it all up on my phone and even if i did, it wouldnt change your minds. Their ideology and goals are clear as day. But if you idiots want to read their 'official' pc puff rhetoric on their website and believe thats as far as it goes, thats fine.

great job with the link



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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #26 on: August 06, 2014, 02:25:30 PM »
it's funny how many getbiggers - back in 1992 - probably supported "Handguns, Inc".

Several of today's republicans were clinton voters back then, they've admitted.


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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #27 on: August 06, 2014, 02:45:12 PM »
it's funny how many getbiggers - back in 1992 - probably supported "Handguns, Inc".

Several of today's republicans were clinton voters back then, they've admitted.



Even funnier how right wingers on this board do not understand the concept of linear time.

The National Gun Control Council was started in 1974 (point of reference Brady was shot in 1981 and had NOTHING to do with the NGCC when that statement was made) and John Matrix conveniently chose not to provide a link to his selective quote.   Hmm... I wonder why?

Here is the quote from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Campaign

Quote
In July 1976, Shields estimated that it would take seven to ten years for NCCH to reach the goal of "total control of handguns in the United States." He said:
"The first problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns being produced and sold in this country. The second is to get handguns registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition - except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporing clubs, and licensed gun collectors - totally illegal."[13]

However, by 1987, Shields said that he believed "in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns... for legitimate purposes."[14]

In November 2008, Brady president Helmke, a former Republican mayor of Fort Wayne, Indiana, endorsed the American Hunters and Shooters Association saying, "I see our issues as complementary to theirs." He said, "The Brady Campaign is not just East Coast liberal Democrats."[15]

John why did you choose to leave off that info and why slander James Brady on this site by saying "he decided to dedicate the rest of his life to attacking everyday americans and their rights" when this is clearly not the case and even after the original Chairman Pete Shields disavowed that objective in 1987.  Why do you pretend that something he disavowed 27 years ago was still the case today.

If fact you said it was their "stated mission" as if it was their present date "stated mission"

Funny thing is that he very source where you got that quote from 1974 also has their actual "stated mission"
which they got from the Brady Campaign Website

Quote
The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence works to pass, enforce, and protect sensible laws and public policy that address gun violence at the federal and state levels. We do this by engaging and activating the American public, electing officials who support common sense gun laws, and increasing public awareness of gun violence. Through our advocacy campaigns and Million Mom March and Brady Chapters, we work locally to educate people about the risks of gun ownership, honor victims of gun violence, and pass sensible gun laws.

The Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence develops and implements extensive public health and safety programs and utilizes the courts to reduce gun violence. Through our Legal Action Project, we represent victims of gun violence in cases against irresponsible gun sellers and owners. Through our public health and safety programs, we inspire safer attitudes and behaviors around the 300 million guns already in our homes and communities and new gun purchases taking place every day.[17]

Here is what I don't understand

Why the willful ignorance on your part when you clearly had access to accurate information?

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #28 on: August 06, 2014, 02:48:41 PM »
Even funnier how right wingers on this board do not understand the concept of linear time.

The National Gun Control Council was started in 1974 (point of reference Brady was shot in 1981 and had NOTHING to do with the NGCC when that statement was made) and John Matrix conveniently chose not to provide a link to his selective quote.   Hmm... I wonder why?

Here is the quote from Wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brady_Campaign

John why did you choose to leave off that info and why slander James Brady on this site by saying "he decided to dedicate the rest of his life to attacking everyday americans and their rights" when this is clearly not the case and even after the original Chairman Pete Shields disavowed that objective in 1987.  Why do you pretend that something he disavowed 27 years ago was still the case today.

If fact you said it was their "stated mission" as if it was their present date "stated mission"

Funny thing is that he very source where you got that quote from 1974 also has their actual "stated mission"
which they got from the Brady Campaign Website

Here is what I don't understand

Why the willful ignorance on your part when you clearly had access to accurate information?


He had admitted being a partisan shill spinner.   So what do you expect?

Straw Man

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #29 on: August 06, 2014, 02:56:00 PM »
He had admitted being a partisan shill spinner.   So what do you expect?

Well I guess if he is going to lie to us he first has to lie to himself

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2014, 03:08:04 PM »
Well I guess if he is going to lie to us he first has to lie to himself

Rove-ian-ism 101.  If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth.

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2014, 07:43:46 AM »
Hahaha, i dont even know where to start. So you guys are suggesting these prominent gun control groups are...not really after gun control? ::)

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2014, 08:20:14 AM »
I gotta wonder how many "repubs" on getbig today supported the Brady Bill back then.

They love reagan, and he loved the brady bill.
They love Bush2, and he said he'd keep it in place if congress would let him.
THey love Clinton, voted for him... and he gave us the bag of shit brady bill.

They'll tell us "I hated the brady bill, but wow I loved all the presidents that supported it."

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2014, 08:43:31 AM »
I gotta wonder how many "repubs" on getbig today supported the Brady Bill back then.

They love reagan, and he loved the brady bill.
They love Bush2, and he said he'd keep it in place if congress would let him.
THey love Clinton, voted for him... and he gave us the bag of shit brady bill.

They'll tell us "I hated the brady bill, but wow I loved all the presidents that supported it."

What the hell are you talking about??

Straw Man

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2014, 08:46:33 AM »
I gotta wonder how many "repubs" on getbig today supported the Brady Bill back then.

They love reagan, and he loved the brady bill.
They love Bush2, and he said he'd keep it in place if congress would let him.
THey love Clinton, voted for him... and he gave us the bag of shit brady bill.

They'll tell us "I hated the brady bill, but wow I loved all the presidents that supported it."

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act is mostly about background checks.
It's basically the LEAST we can do to keep guns out of the hands of lunatics
Who in their right mind would have a problem with that?


Quote
Provisions

The Brady Act requires that background checks be conducted on individuals before a firearm may be purchased from a federally licensed dealer, manufacturer or importer—unless an exception applies. If there are no additional state restrictions, a firearm may be transferred to an individual upon approval by the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) maintained by the FBI. In some states, proof of a previous background check can be used to bypass the NICS check. For example, a state-issued concealed carry permit usually includes a background check equivalent to the one required by the Act. Other alternatives to the NICS check include state-issued handgun purchase permits or mandatory state or local background checks.

Section 922(g) of the Brady Act prohibits certain persons from shipping or transporting any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receiving any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce, or possessing any firearm in or affecting commerce. These prohibitions apply to any person who:

Has been convicted in any court of a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
Is a fugitive from justice;
Is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance;
Has been adjudicated as a mental defective or committed to a mental institution;
Is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States;
Has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
Having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced U.S. citizenship;
Is subject to a court order that restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner or child of such intimate partner, or;
Has been convicted in any court of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence.

Section 922(n) of the Act makes it unlawful for any person who is under indictment for a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year to ship or transport any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce, or receive any firearm which has been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.[1]

Currently, 92% of Brady background checks through NICS are completed while the FBI is still on the phone with the gun dealer.[2] In rare cases, a gun purchaser may have to wait for up to three business days if the NICS system fails to positively approve or deny his/her application to purchase a firearm. If a denial is not issued within those three days, the transfer may be completed at that time. Lawful permanent residents, who by law should not be subjected to any different or additional hindrances, are routinely delayed for processing, creating a disparate impact of any such purchaser.

Firearm transfers by unlicensed private sellers that are "not engaged in the business" of dealing firearms are not subject to the Brady Act, but may be covered under other federal, state, and local restrictions.
The Brady Act also does not apply to licensed Curios & Relics (C&R) collectors, but only in respect to C&R firearms.[3] The FFL Category 03 Curio & Relic license costs $30 and is valid for 3 years. Licensed C&R collectors may also purchase C&R firearms from private individuals or from federal firearms dealers, whether in their home state or in another state, and ship C&R firearms in interstate commerce by common carrier. Curios or relics are defined in 27 C.F.R. 478.11 as "Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons." The regulation further states:
To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; or
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

Straw Man

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2014, 08:56:13 AM »
Hahaha, i dont even know where to start. So you guys are suggesting these prominent gun control groups are...not really after gun control? ::)

It's pathetic how you think modest gun control measures = elimination of handgun ownership

Even more pathetic is saying that it IS (present tense) the stated goal of the Brady Campaign when you have proof that is totally false.  It was a statement made by Pete Shields of  National Council to Control Handguns and was made in 1974.

You posted a quote without a link and conveniently left off the part where the person (Pete Shields ) who made the statement about the elimination of handguns later made the statement that he "believed "in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns... for legitimate purposes."

Again, Brady never made these statements and they are not the stated goal of the Brady Campaign.

This is willful and flagrant dishonesty on your part

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2014, 10:33:11 AM »
It's pathetic how you think modest gun control measures = elimination of handgun ownership

Even more pathetic is saying that it IS (present tense) the stated goal of the Brady Campaign when you have proof that is totally false.  It was a statement made by Pete Shields of  National Council to Control Handguns and was made in 1974.

You posted a quote without a link and conveniently left off the part where the person (Pete Shields ) who made the statement about the elimination of handguns later made the statement that he "believed "in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns... for legitimate purposes."

Again, Brady never made these statements and they are not the stated goal of the Brady Campaign.

This is willful and flagrant dishonesty on your part

No it is him just following through on his admittance to being a biased partisan hack.

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2014, 10:43:04 AM »
It's pathetic how you think modest gun control measures = elimination of handgun ownership

Even more pathetic is saying that it IS (present tense) the stated goal of the Brady Campaign when you have proof that is totally false.  It was a statement made by Pete Shields of  National Council to Control Handguns and was made in 1974.

You posted a quote without a link and conveniently left off the part where the person (Pete Shields ) who made the statement about the elimination of handguns later made the statement that he "believed "in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns... for legitimate purposes."

Again, Brady never made these statements and they are not the stated goal of the Brady Campaign.

This is willful and flagrant dishonesty on your part

Pretending 'modest measures' are all they are after is willful and flagrant dishonesty on your part.

These groups merge, change names, create offshoots, etc...over the years, but their ideology and end goals are the same. Publically stating 'oh all we want is some innocent little ______' is completely predictable. Many of the prominent figures in the Anti movement have let slip their long term intentions/wishes many times...but you guys can continue to be coy by all means.

Straw Man

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2014, 11:07:09 AM »
Pretending 'modest measures' are all they are after is willful and flagrant dishonesty on your part.

These groups merge, change names, create offshoots, etc...over the years, but their ideology and end goals are the same. Publically stating 'oh all we want is some innocent little ______' is completely predictable. Many of the prominent figures in the Anti movement have let slip their long term intentions/wishes many times...but you guys can continue to be coy by all means.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act is about background checks

You already said you were fine with background checks so why did you feel the need to LIE about The Brady Campaign

There is nothing wrong with a basic background check performed by dealers/stores/vendors. No one really has an issue with that (UBC is a totally different story) But they went far beyond that. The stated goal of the Brady campaign and its leaders was the elimination of handgun ownership (and eventually all gun ownership) in america.

Your statement above is a proven lie

That statement was not made by The Brady Campaign and it is not their stated goal

Just curious why you felt the need to lie

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #39 on: August 08, 2014, 05:47:17 AM »
The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act is about background checks

You already said you were fine with background checks so why did you feel the need to LIE about The Brady Campaign

Your statement above is a proven lie

That statement was not made by The Brady Campaign and it is not their stated goal

Just curious why you felt the need to lie

If brady wanted ONE LAW ABIDING PERSON to go without a handgun, then yes, gun ban was his stated goal.

Let's not forget their work went WAY beyond just background checks.  I couldn't find a glock mag in 1999.  I couldn't buy a rifle in 2002.   Shit was triple the price.   He used fear and economics to keep guns and to limit defensive capacity.  

So yes, many were deprived economically.  Maybe Brady didn't use the words "gun ban" but many sure felt it.  I don't have to say "rice ban", but if I burn 95% of it and the price goes up tenfold, it's a de facto rice ban...

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2014, 07:17:30 AM »
If brady wanted ONE LAW ABIDING PERSON to go without a handgun, then yes, gun ban was his stated goal.

Let's not forget their work went WAY beyond just background checks.  I couldn't find a glock mag in 1999.  I couldn't buy a rifle in 2002.   Shit was triple the price.   He used fear and economics to keep guns and to limit defensive capacity.  

So yes, many were deprived economically.  Maybe Brady didn't use the words "gun ban" but many sure felt it.  I don't have to say "rice ban", but if I burn 95% of it and the price goes up tenfold, it's a de facto rice ban...

please provide some proof of any of your claims.  for example please explain how the Brady Bill prevented you from finding a glock mag in 1999 or a rifle in 2002.   Please show me where in the provisions of the bill these are even addressed

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2014, 10:43:47 AM »
please provide some proof of any of your claims.  for example please explain how the Brady Bill prevented you from finding a glock mag in 1999 or a rifle in 2002.   Please show me where in the provisions of the bill these are even addressed

Beat around the bush all you want but you know deep down we are right  :)

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2014, 10:53:43 AM »
Beat around the bush all you want but you know deep down we are right  :)

On the surface and deep down I've proven you are a liar  ;)

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2014, 11:31:27 AM »
Right, im a liar for saying a gun control group is trying to push gun control  ::)

Means a lot coming from a guy who claimed 'NRA members overwhelmingly supported obamas gun legislation' last year ::)

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2014, 11:40:18 AM »
Right, im a liar for saying a gun control group is trying to push gun control  ::)

Means a lot coming from a guy who claimed 'NRA members overwhelmingly supported obamas gun legislation' last year ::)

You're a liar for saying that the stated goal of the Brady campaign and its leaders was the elimination of handgun ownership.

The proof of your lie is on this thread

You're further genuinely dishonest because you took the quote from Shields in 1974 and yet completely ignored his quote in 1987 where he said that he believed in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns.

Why do you feel the need to lie so much just to try to monger fear

BTW - if you want to make a claim about a statement that I made then go find the quote.

I don't trust the memory of a proven and willful liar

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2014, 12:21:45 PM »
please provide some proof of any of your claims.  for example please explain how the Brady Bill prevented you from finding a glock mag in 1999 or a rifle in 2002.   Please show me where in the provisions of the bill these are even addressed

Sorry, I wasn't clear - Brady bill was 1993.

In 1994, Brady's HCI was the chief lobbyist for the assault weapons ban, which limited mag capacity and banned many long arms.

I should correct this too "The brady bill didn't affect me in any way, aside from having to wait 20 minutes for the old ass machine to spit out an OK on my sale."

Also I should add, Brady used this success to lead the charge for the piece of shit assault weapons ban  :(

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2014, 12:54:29 PM »
You're a liar for saying that the stated goal of the Brady campaign and its leaders was the elimination of handgun ownership.

The proof of your lie is on this thread

You're further genuinely dishonest because you took the quote from Shields in 1974 and yet completely ignored his quote in 1987 where he said that he believed in the right of law-abiding citizens to possess handguns.

Why do you feel the need to lie so much just to try to monger fear

BTW - if you want to make a claim about a statement that I made then go find the quote.

I don't trust the memory of a proven and willful liar

 ::)

Yes, and obama, feinstein and bloomberg are big supporters of the second amendment too, because they said so in a carefully crafted PR release ::)

Their actions and their non-official statements show otherwise. You are being willfully gullible.

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #47 on: August 08, 2014, 01:38:14 PM »
::)

Yes, and obama, feinstein and bloomberg are big supporters of the second amendment too, because they said so in a carefully crafted PR release ::)

Their actions and their non-official statements show otherwise. You are being willfully gullible.

Feel free to start a thread about it if you'd like

This thread is about the passing of James Brady and there is no reason for you to lie about him just to gin up your paranoia that Obama is coming after you guns.  

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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #48 on: August 08, 2014, 05:59:20 PM »
James Brady’s death ruled homicide by Virginia medical examiner
 By Peter Hermann August 8 at 5:21 PM

The death on Monday of President Ronald Reagan’s press secretary James S. Brady, has been ruled a homicide as a result of the gunshot wound he suffered in an assassination attempt on Reagan in 1981, according to District police department’s chief spokeswoman.

There was no immediate word on whether the shooter, John W. Hinckley, who has been treated at St. Elizabeths psychiatric hospital, could face new criminal charges. Hinckley, 59, was found not guilty by reason of insanity after he shot Reagan and three others on March 30, 1981.

The ruling was made by the medical examiner’s office in Virginia, where Brady died in an Alexandria retirement community. The shooting of Brady three decades ago, and the revelation of Hinckley’s mental illness, had largely faded from the headlines until his death this week at age 73.

Barry Wm. Levine, Hinckley’s attorney, said Friday evening that he had not seen the medical examiner’s report, but he felt confident the U.S. Attorneys office would face “insurmountable legal barriers to any prosecution.”

 “The idea there is a causal relationship that they can prove that this death came from that assault is fairly far fetched,” he said. “Is there any conceivable theory of facts that would differ from the facts that applied to the prosecution in 1982? Is there something new or different other than the fact that Brady died? [Hinckley] was found not guilty of the assault. How could he be found guilty of the more serious charge?”

Bill Miller, a spokesman for the U.S. attorney’s office, said prosecutors are reviewing the ruling and that his office “has no further comment at this time.”

 Gail Hoffman, a Brady family spokesman said she could not immediately comment, adding, “Jim had been suffering health issues since the shooting.”

Brady’s death will now be added to the District’s 2014 homicide list. He becomes the District's 71st homicide of 2014.

Last December a federal judge gave Hinckley more freedom from St. Elizabeth’s, allowing him to spend 17 days a month in Williamsburg, Va., where his elderly mother lives.

“John has lived his whole life since that event, riddled by guilt and he has the greatest respect for the Bradys and the greatest amount of remorse for what happened,” Levine said. “A sensitive public would know that at the time he committed that act, he was ravaged by mental disease.”



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Re: James Brady, former Reagan press secretary, gun-control advocate, dies
« Reply #49 on: August 08, 2014, 06:07:42 PM »
I gotta wonder how many "repubs" on getbig today supported the Brady Bill back then.

They love reagan, and he loved the brady bill.
They love Bush2, and he said he'd keep it in place if congress would let him.
THey love Clinton, voted for him... and he gave us the bag of shit brady bill.

They'll tell us "I hated the brady bill, but wow I loved all the presidents that supported it."

How old were you in 1993?