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Author Topic: Natural Bodybuilding Secrets ???  (Read 3253 times)
canyoufeeltheforce
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« on: March 10, 2006, 07:10:48 PM »

Hi ,

After trawling through various sites tonight as I was drawn into www.freakybig.com . However being a canny Scot I didn't send him any of my cash .

Was I wise Huh
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2006, 04:02:04 PM »

Hi ,

After trawling through various sites tonight as I was drawn into www.freakybig.com . However being a canny Scot I didn't send him any of my cash .

Was I wise Huh

I'd say so.

The main concern is exercise technique, which goes beyond simple "good form". "Excellent form" is beyond the understanding of more than 99% of people training with weights. If everybody had excellent dedication to training and excellent form we'd all be lifting excellent weights and looking excellent. Thats the gods honest truth! Most guys can do as many sets and reps for side delts as they like they will only end up with big arse traps and mediocre deltoids. Another guy might only need 1 set to toast his delts and still have fairly fresh traps, the reason isn't genetic (although everybody thinks that when they see his big delts and 1 set rouitine) it's excercise performance.

1 mans set is another mans workout. Which is why all 1 size fits all set and rep prescriptions are flawed. AGAIN THE REASON IS NOT GENETICS! This phenomena would be entirely predictable even if all bodybuilders were genetic clones.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2006, 05:53:00 PM »

Thanks for that Acerimmer1 and thanks to ******* for sending my a copy of the eBook .
I must admit it was an interesting read .
I believe Acerimmer1 hit the nail on the head when he said :
1 mans set is another mans workout. Which is why all 1 size fits all set and rep prescriptions are flawed.
Saying that I will still give it a go for 1-3 months and see if it works for me. It goes against nearly everything I have learned but I haven't qualified for the Mr O yet so perhaps there is room for improvement .
Seriously though I hope I can make some quality gains as my shape hasn't changed much in the past 2 years . Mr Perez did drawn me in with his attack on the whole supplement business .
I am going to start with the programme next week so wish me luck .
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mwbbuilder
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« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2006, 02:49:00 PM »

Nicely contrived advertisement guys.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2006, 03:41:15 PM »

Cynical or what my friend ?
I am from Scotland , and I live in Scotland and the furthest I've travelled is Magaluf . I only heard of the guy Perez last week but being a typically canny Scot I though it better to post here and get the low down on his ebook rather that pay for it .
If you look at the advertising in the Bodybuilding rags and on forums I think you'd serve your time better by attacking them . His programme is different to my normal way of thinking but I am willing to give it a go just like I have with other new programmes over the years .
One thing that he said made me sit up was training form . I quote :

I have both of Ronnie Coleman's training dvds, "Unbelievable" and "The Cost of Redemption". Anyone, and I mean anyone, that has ever seen the way he trains knows that what is written in this article is the exact opposite of the way he trains in real life.

He speaks against "cheating, swinging, and leveraging the weight", "using body mechanics", and concentrating on "muscle contractions", but that is exactly what he does! Watch him do those bent over barbell rows, the t-bar rows, lat pulldowns, cable rows, etc. On just about every back exercise he cheats, swings, uses leverage, and body mechanics from the very first rep!!!

"Muscle contractions"Huh?? He never pauses to get a so-called muscle contraction on any exercise whatsoever! And what is funny is that back exercises are the most obvious ones that he swings all over the place, although in his article he says to NOT do that. Yet, Ronnie's best muscle group is his back. Hmmmmm.

"Full range of motion"Huh?? Take a look at how he benches. He stops the rep about halfway up.......nowhere at all near "full of range of motion"!


You might not agree with Mr Perez but at our gym the best form sees to come from the intermediates . The bigger steroid users seem to have sloppy technique which I first thought was due to macho-bullshit .

Anyhow , I am going to give it a go or maybe I will just get some muscle implants with my share of advertising Mr Perez's eBook .
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2006, 03:52:12 PM »

Nicely contrived advertisement guys.

Yeah I especially liked the part where I told him he was probably wise not to part with his cash ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2006, 03:54:17 PM »

Cynical or what my friend ?
I am from Scotland , and I live in Scotland and the furthest I've travelled is Magaluf . I only heard of the guy Perez last week but being a typically canny Scot I though it better to post here and get the low down on his ebook rather that pay for it .
If you look at the advertising in the Bodybuilding rags and on forums I think you'd serve your time better by attacking them . His programme is different to my normal way of thinking but I am willing to give it a go just like I have with other new programmes over the years .
One thing that he said made me sit up was training form . I quote :

I have both of Ronnie Coleman's training dvds, "Unbelievable" and "The Cost of Redemption". Anyone, and I mean anyone, that has ever seen the way he trains knows that what is written in this article is the exact opposite of the way he trains in real life.

He speaks against "cheating, swinging, and leveraging the weight", "using body mechanics", and concentrating on "muscle contractions", but that is exactly what he does! Watch him do those bent over barbell rows, the t-bar rows, lat pulldowns, cable rows, etc. On just about every back exercise he cheats, swings, uses leverage, and body mechanics from the very first rep!!!

"Muscle contractions"Huh?? He never pauses to get a so-called muscle contraction on any exercise whatsoever! And what is funny is that back exercises are the most obvious ones that he swings all over the place, although in his article he says to NOT do that. Yet, Ronnie's best muscle group is his back. Hmmmmm.

"Full range of motion"Huh?? Take a look at how he benches. He stops the rep about halfway up.......nowhere at all near "full of range of motion"!


You might not agree with Mr Perez but at our gym the best form sees to come from the intermediates . The bigger steroid users seem to have sloppy technique which I first thought was due to macho-bullshit .

Anyhow , I am going to give it a go or maybe I will just get some muscle implants with my share of advertising Mr Perez's eBook .


Ronnie wouldn't know strict form if it punched him in the head. But strictness is only one element, to say strict form equals good form is like saying that a sturdy hemet makes you a good football player. But of course that doesn't mean you should look for a damaged helmet to replace the one you are using at the time.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2006, 03:58:44 PM »

Hey Acerimmer1. How about we start up our own Advertising Company ?
I think our radical approach (ie. I would say something like Do you think I should buy this product and then you say NO !!!) might just caught on and make us a fortune . I can just see the long line of clients now .
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2006, 05:13:28 PM »

Hey Acerimmer1. How about we start up our own Advertising Company ?
I think our radical approach (ie. I would say something like Do you think I should buy this product and then you say NO !!!) might just caught on and make us a fortune . I can just see the long line of clients now .

Yeah well... thats the great thing about reverse psychology.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2006, 06:57:53 PM »

What is Ronnie's goal while training his back for instance .
TO GET A BIGGER BACK - I hear you cry .
Therefore I would assume his form produces the best results otherwise he would change . Mr Perez was not slagging Ronnie off . Quite the opposite in fact . He merely states that all those articles where pros tell us to train with strict form and don't forget the famous Weider Principles are not a true reflection on how the big boys train . According to the Wedier Principles big Ronnie's form is not strict or good but it works . Therefore who do we believe ? Big Ron's public face or Big Ron's in-his-own-gym face .
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #10 on: March 12, 2006, 07:08:57 PM »

What is Ronnie's goal while training his back for instance .
TO GET A BIGGER BACK - I hear you cry .
Therefore I would assume his form produces the best results otherwise he would change . Mr Perez was not slagging Ronnie off . Quite the opposite in fact . He merely states that all those articles where pros tell us to train with strict form and don't forget the famous Weider Principles are not a true reflection on how the big boys train . According to the Wedier Principles big Ronnie's form is not strict or good but it works . Therefore who do we believe ? Big Ron's public face or Big Ron's in-his-own-gym face .

I don't see what the relevance is Ronnie isn't going to tell you the finer points of his training even if he understood and could communicate them. The difference between good and excellent form is seldom something which is visually apparent, if you just tried to reproduce what Ronnie appears to be doing you will most likely not suceed in actually doing the same thing.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2006, 07:26:12 PM »

Good point mate but all I was saying was that I can see what Perez was saying about the difference between what the pros say and what the pros do in the gym . I have only ever seen one pro BB train in person and his reps were fast and furious . I have seen many training tapes and a few dvds and they all seem to lift the weights much quicker than I would . Therefore I am going to try and increase my weights/reps as often as possible and not concern myself too much if my technique is a little ragged .
I am not going to be silly enough to copy the technique of someone like Ronnie but I am going to try and emulate their training principles all be it at a more puny level .
I have no idea if Perez's methods will work for me but at the very least they have opened my eyes .
I have witnessed many many guys over the years doing the exact same workouts week in week out and most with the same weights . I'm sure you all have seen something similar . I do change my workouts but over the past few years even my changes are predictable . Whether it be rep ranges / exercises / body part combinations etc .
I think most guys get to a certain size and they are to frightened to change in case they get smaller .
I am no coward so I will embrace the change to my workouts .
Wish me luck .
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mwbbuilder
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« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2006, 07:58:01 PM »

Thou protest too much.
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canyoufeeltheforce
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« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2006, 08:25:02 PM »

What !!!!

So all those guys talking about Deca being better that Equipoise on this forum are all Deca Dealers .

Is that the way your tiny mind works ?
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2006, 08:46:40 PM »

Good point mate but all I was saying was that I can see what Perez was saying about the difference between what the pros say and what the pros do in the gym . I have only ever seen one pro BB train in person and his reps were fast and furious . I have seen many training tapes and a few dvds and they all seem to lift the weights much quicker than I would . Therefore I am going to try and increase my weights/reps as often as possible and not concern myself too much if my technique is a little ragged .
I am not going to be silly enough to copy the technique of someone like Ronnie but I am going to try and emulate their training principles all be it at a more puny level .
I have no idea if Perez's methods will work for me but at the very least they have opened my eyes .
I have witnessed many many guys over the years doing the exact same workouts week in week out and most with the same weights . I'm sure you all have seen something similar . I do change my workouts but over the past few years even my changes are predictable . Whether it be rep ranges / exercises / body part combinations etc .
I think most guys get to a certain size and they are to frightened to change in case they get smaller .
I am no coward so I will embrace the change to my workouts .
Wish me luck .

As regards rep speed I agree and disagree. I think fast reps are a good idea for the bodyparts which grow easily. I also think that if you have a good mind muscle connection (if you have to ask you probably don't have it atall except maybe in your upper traps) , whereby you feel the muscle working properly even at speed then it's all good even if it is a lagging bodypart. But if you're trying to work a muscle which lags and which you don't have a good mind muscle connection with it's a really bad idea to train fast IMO. In that case I think your easy growing muscles would take over.
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« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2006, 09:33:51 PM »

I personally think that both slow reps and fast reps work, In a real sense you have to develop a feel or experience to arrive at a style that works for you. There is a ideal groove (combination of rep speed, range of motion, etc.) that every weight lifter will develop with experience over time. It takes time.

Two examples of diverse rep grooves are two of the best Mr. O's, Dorian's and Ronnie's styles. Yates generally used a full range of motion, and explosive raising phase, sometimes a pause and then a slow negative. Coleman, a rapid explosive, rythmic, partial rep style. Both methods produce results thats obvious.

The bottom line is that both methods work, both methods produces results, and both have their pros and cons. Obviously these methods have enough in common to produce outstanding results.

On a related note,
I personally train predominantly with partial, explosive reps with great overall effect in muscle and strength. I also make use of full range reps done slower when I feel the need. If I had to choose though I would pick explosive partials for more producing more overall result in mass and strength. I feel this way despite being a fan of Dorians style and being trained by him a few times.
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onlyme
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« Reply #16 on: March 12, 2006, 10:00:03 PM »

Take Growth Hormone
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myseone
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« Reply #17 on: March 12, 2006, 10:14:46 PM »

Take Growth Hormone

Yeah that stuff does work well, a lot of people get carried away with it though, hence the horse face, enlarged elbows, lizard skin, and steamlined gut.
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Acerimmer1
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« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2006, 04:16:42 PM »

I personally think that both slow reps and fast reps work, In a real sense you have to develop a feel or experience to arrive at a style that works for you. There is a ideal groove (combination of rep speed, range of motion, etc.) that every weight lifter will develop with experience over time. It takes time.

Two examples of diverse rep grooves are two of the best Mr. O's, Dorian's and Ronnie's styles. Yates generally used a full range of motion, and explosive raising phase, sometimes a pause and then a slow negative. Coleman, a rapid explosive, rythmic, partial rep style. Both methods produce results thats obvious.

The bottom line is that both methods work, both methods produces results, and both have their pros and cons. Obviously these methods have enough in common to produce outstanding results.

On a related note,
I personally train predominantly with partial, explosive reps with great overall effect in muscle and strength. I also make use of full range reps done slower when I feel the need. If I had to choose though I would pick explosive partials for more producing more overall result in mass and strength. I feel this way despite being a fan of Dorians style and being trained by him a few times.

Personally once I have the grove, if I'm not using a weight so heavy as to prevent it I'll try to speed up more (but only if I can do so and stay in the groove thats my goal fast reps where you feel isolation just like slow ones).

Force= mass x acceleration after all

That way I also get the benefit of "copensatory acceleration"
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GET_BIGGER
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« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2006, 09:43:43 AM »

Take Growth Hormone

The hell if I am gonna let GH ruin this pretty face of mine....

 Grin
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myseone
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« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2006, 11:09:57 PM »

The hell if I am gonna let GH ruin this pretty face of mine....

 Grin

Chuckle......You mean to say that you don't want to have a head shaped like Mr. Potato head, with all the moveable parts?
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