Author Topic: Christ  (Read 13686 times)

Kwon_2

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Christ
« on: December 22, 2014, 11:45:55 AM »




SF1900

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Re: Christ
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2014, 11:49:52 AM »
just playing devils advocate here

http://www.latintimes.com/vatican-newspaper-calls-1500-year-old-bible-claim-jesus-was-not-crucified-probable-forgery-171831

Recent reports have revealed the discovery of a 1500-year-old bible in Turkey. The bible was reportedly retrieved over 14 years ago in 2000, when it was seized from smugglers in the Mediterranean area and held in a Turkish courthouse until safe transfer to the Ethnography Museum of Ankara could be arranged. The holy book allegedly contains the Gospel of Barnabas, who was a disciple of Jesus, in the work, claims that Jesus was not crucified, instead it says he ascended to heaven alive and Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place. Furthermore, the 1500-year-old bible states that Jesus Christ was not the Son of God, but simply a prophet who passed on the word of God.

The bible, which is said to be worth a whopping $28 million dollars, is an obvious hot commodity, so much so that the Vatican has requested an official application to access the alleged Gospel of Barnabas. According to the Christian Post, merely photocopies of the holy book’s pages are being sold for a staggering $1.7 million. In addition to the age and impeccable construction of the bible, the contents of the holy book are what make it so valuable. The Gospel of Barnabas is not included in the New Testament alongside Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. This work opposes the ideas proposed in the widely spread New Testament, and instead has noticeable similarities to the Muslim interpretation of Jesus.

Despite the interest and growing number of media reports confirming the authenticity of the holy book, the Vatican Insider, a project run by the newspaper “La Stampa,” claims that the book is a “hoax.” Vatican Insider believes that the holy book is not the Gospel of Barnabas, instead the site claims it is most likely the work of a forger, more specifically, a European -- Jewish scholar from the Middle Ages. Their main reason for claiming the work to be an “extraordinary hoax” is due to the main inscription on the 1500-year-old book.

According to their translation, the main inscription reads, “In the name of the Lord, this book is written by monks of the high monastery in Nineveh in the 1500th year of our Lord.” The main issue with the inscription that apparently deems the recently discovered Gospel of Barnabas a fake is the lack of the work ”bible” or even “holy book” in the inscription. According to their sources, who are unnamed, biblical works from 1500 years ago would not have been called a “book” instead; it is either referred to as “New Testament” or “Old Testament,” or “Holy Book.” Vatican Insider claims that the monk’s apparent oversight would have been unlikely when creating the Gospel of Barnabas.

The site continues to disprove the authenticity of the discovery by claiming that the media, specifically the Muslim media is confusing the age 1500-year old of the book with the year 1500 AD. The Muslim media has supposedly reported that “‘an ancient, 1500-year-old bible predicted the coming of Muhammad,” but once again the site disagrees. The Vatican Insider claims that media reports are confusing the 1500 years attributed by the media and the date of 1500 AD written in the book’s main inscription and due to this confusion, the Muslim beliefs and claim that The Gospel of Barnabas predicted a great prophecy are in their opinion null and void.

The debate between Christianity and the Muslin interpretation of Jesus is something that has raged on for centuries. The Gospel of Barnabas was not included in the New Testaments, reportedly due to its likenesses to the Muslim interpretation of Jesus. Due to this fact, many followers of Islam believe the Vatican Library repressed the original work.
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Teutonic Knight

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Re: Christ
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2014, 11:50:56 AM »
O, geee they have paper in those days  ;D

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Christ
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2014, 11:56:20 AM »
If Palumbo lived 1500 years ago, he would have sold fake HGH then too.

_aj_

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Re: Christ
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2014, 11:57:32 AM »
If Palumbo lived 1500 years ago, he would have sold fake HGH then too.

Legit Jesustropin

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Re: Christ
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2014, 11:57:36 AM »
O, geee they have paper in those days  ;D

It's written on leather.

Thespritz0

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Re: Christ
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2014, 12:03:50 PM »
If Palumbo lived 1500 years ago, he would have sold fake HGH then too.
^^
You really hate him, huh????????????  ???

Man of Steel

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Re: Christ
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2014, 12:05:22 PM »
Lots of false gospels and epistles.....Thomas, Barnabas, Enoch, Clement, Baruch, etc....these "lost books" are rediscovered every other year.    They've all been hashed, rehashed, re-rehashed and re-re-hashed for a very long time.

Muslims love to challenge Christians with these "discoveries".   "The book claims Jesus ascended to heaven alive, and that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place." - this is standard stuff for Muslims to use against unsuspecting Christians.   Most Christians don't even realize this material exists so they get blindsided with it in informal debate settings.  It's nothing for believers to worry about.  I've discussed the Gospel of Thomas on these boards a few times:

A great way to trust the age and accuracy of the biblical scriptures lies in the volume and age of the NT manuscripts that predate the council of Nicea by centuries and that all align with one another.  These same manuscripts are the sources of the biblical translations that we know today and have been carbon dated and fully vetted and validated....the field of textual criticism specializes in this exact process.  Textual critics specializing in ancient documents (including NT manuscripts) estimate the accuracy of biblical translations of today to be 99.6% accurate and tied to the source manuscripts just mentioned. 

The early church actually omitted those texts that did not align with Christ and his apostles and that re-worded and added theology not present in the teachings of Christ and his apostles.  The primary elimination were those texts aligned with the concepts of the gnostic cult.  For example, the now infamous Gospel of Thomas is a heretical text from the 2nd century that aligns with gnosticism, but made famous in the modern world by those seeking to discredit Christianity and Jesus Christ. It's a prime example of a young audience of critics diving into an old (debunked) bag of tricks in an attempt to bring a "fresh, new perspective" to a young, naive audience using an ancient ploy long.....LONG....since rejected.

This is by no means an exhaustive reply on this subject, merely a high level overview.

King Shizzo

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Re: Christ
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2014, 12:17:33 PM »
The whole thing is fucking stupid. There are how many variations/editions of the bible? There are how many Gospels that were kept out of the bible? (wouldn't that be considered blasphemy?)

They come right out and admit that leading church officials from around the christian world and Roman Emperor Constantine convened at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 to:

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father,[3] the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter,[6] and promulgation of early canon law.[4][7]

So basically the Emperor, and the most powerful clergymen of Christendom, gathered to decide the way Christianity would/should be followed from that day forward?

Sounds like they had the ability at that meeting to spin early Christianity any way they sought fit.

Any Christians would be fools to think that the bible they read, is in it's intended entirety.

Who knows if the bible was ever altered again during the Dark Ages, when it would have been easy to control the limited availability of books and the spread of information.

The bible is a collection of stories that have been altered too many times to be taken literally as the word of god.

God does not need an editor.

The Abdominal Snoman

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Re: Christ
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2014, 12:21:27 PM »
^^
You really hate him, huh????????????  ???

Naw its a joke bro

Teutonic Knight

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Re: Christ
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2014, 12:24:52 PM »
Moops Wiggs "expertise" is needed  :D

King Shizzo

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Re: Christ
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2014, 12:28:49 PM »
I guess that is why they call it "faith". I respect MOS's views on religion, but I would also like him to know that it is entirely possible that the bible and other key principles of Christianity could have been altered, changed, and even removed completely to benefit those involved, and we would have no idea.


Man of Steel

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Re: Christ
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2014, 12:39:27 PM »
The whole thing is fucking stupid. There are how many variations/editions of the bible? There are how many Gospels that were kept out of the bible? (wouldn't that be considered blasphemy?)

They come right out and admit that leading church officials from around the christian world and Roman Emperor Constantine convened at the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325 to:

Its main accomplishments were settlement of the Christological issue of the nature of the Son of God and his relationship to God the Father,[3] the construction of the first part of the Creed of Nicaea, establishing uniform observance of the date of Easter,[6] and promulgation of early canon law.[4][7]

So basically the Emperor, and the most powerful clergymen of Christendom, gathered to decide the way Christianity would/should be followed from that day forward?

Sounds like they had the ability at that meeting to spin early Christianity any way they sought fit.

Any Christians would be fools to think that the bible they read, is in it's intended entirety.

Who knows if the bible was ever altered again during the Dark Ages, when it would have been easy to control the limited availability of books and the spread of information.

The bible is a collection of stories that have been altered too many times to be taken literally as the word of god.

God does not need an editor.

Here is the primary reason the council of nicea occurred:

So again, we're referring to the council of Nicea.  So let's set the record straight.  

For approximately 3 centuries prior to 325 AD Christians were severely persecuted for the scriptural doctrine of the Trinity they taught.  They didn't use the term "Trinity" as it was later coined, but they absolutely discussed the coequal, coeternal persons of God in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  In the decade or so leading up to the Council of Nicea a presbyter named Arius spoke out against his church bishop and made the claim that Jesus, although on earth to fulfill a divine purpose, was in fact created by God and was therefore neither eternal nor was he deity.  After several years of this opposing position being taught by Arius, it eventually reached Emporer Constantine's ears and he feared that this teaching would eventually split the Christian church that was enjoying a breif period of peace from all out persecution.  That said, he convened 300 bishops to appear at a council in Nicea on June 19, 325 AD to discuss Arius' competing idea of Jesus' being created by God.  The council convened and discussed the point and despite Arius' "silver tongue" he was unable to convince the vast majority of his position given the existing teachings of the father, son and spirit dating all the way back to Christ himself.  That said, the trinity was not created in Nicea, but was merely upheld and reaffirmed there.  I'll concede the concept may have been coined under the umbrella term of "Trinity" at this point, but the council certainly did not create the theology there...that's a twisted myth.  In the years that followed, Arius' small group of believers eventually succumbed to infighting within their ranks and his unorthodox teachings fell to the wayside for the most part; although, today some small groups of "Christians" still deny the Trinity.

You're right that God does not need an editor, but he's called his church to act as representatives and to represent him faithfully.  If false teachings present themselves the church is called to act.

SF1900

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Re: Christ
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2014, 12:41:10 PM »
How is this connected to Wiggs assertion that the original Hebrews were African-American?
X

Erik C

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Re: Christ
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2014, 03:38:53 PM »
Why are people stupid enough to believe in ignorant superstitions? That's all religion is. There is no god. The bible is a silly story book, not history at all.

Try reading THE SACRED MUSHROOM AND THE CROSS by John Allegro. You'll probably have to buy a copy, as christians are very good at stealing the Public Library copies, in the name of jesus, of course.

Marty Champions

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Re: Christ
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2014, 03:47:10 PM »
Lots of false gospels and epistles.....Thomas, Barnabas, Enoch, Clement, Baruch, etc....these "lost books" are rediscovered every other year.    They've all been hashed, rehashed, re-rehashed and re-re-hashed for a very long time.

Muslims love to challenge Christians with these "discoveries".   "The book claims Jesus ascended to heaven alive, and that Judas Iscariot was crucified in his place." - this is standard stuff for Muslims to use against unsuspecting Christians.   Most Christians don't even realize this material exists so they get blindsided with it in informal debate settings.  It's nothing for believers to worry about.  I've discussed the Gospel of Thomas on these boards a few times:

why does the vatican keep 50 miles of books hidden from public
A

wes

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Re: Christ
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2014, 03:51:22 PM »
Ask me if I give a fuck...doo dah,doo dah!!   :)

Palpatine Q

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Re: Christ
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2014, 03:56:59 PM »
Christ

Religion


LOL


_bruce_

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Re: Christ
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2014, 04:04:37 PM »
One day I will enter the Vatican's inner chambers and peek into their secret books.
I guess huge reptile guards might try to deter me from my truth seeking but I'm ready to thrown down... intergalactic fistfights... anybody, anywhere, anytime.


.

Parker

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Re: Christ
« Reply #19 on: December 22, 2014, 04:10:18 PM »
Why are people stupid enough to believe in ignorant superstitions? That's all religion is. There is no god. The bible is a silly story book, not history at all.

Try reading THE SACRED MUSHROOM AND THE CROSS by John Allegro. You'll probably have to buy a copy, as christians are very good at stealing the Public Library copies, in the name of jesus, of course.
Look, there is a discussion about this "book". Not the whole "there is no god". Let's not derail it.
You nor I (nor any other "author") know definitively whether there is or is not a God. We can say that "we believe" as such. But, knowing, we do not.

Erik C

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Re: Christ
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2014, 04:47:43 PM »
Look, there is a discussion about this "book". Not the whole "there is no god". Let's not derail it.
You nor I (nor any other "author") know definitively whether there is or is not a God. We can say that "we believe" as such. But, knowing, we do not.

 

I know that there is no god. The concept is stupid, and is designed to appeal to the simple minded. It's a way to control masses of people for the benefit of their masters. It's absurd, and sad, that billions of people waste their lives groveling in fear and pray to some kind of fiction.

Marty Champions

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Re: Christ
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2014, 04:51:42 PM »
Eric falcon claims thers no god^^^^^^^^^
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TheShape.

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Re: Christ
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2014, 04:53:05 PM »
This is why religion doesn't make any sense to me, too contradictory and nonsensical. 

Hulkotron

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Re: Christ
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2014, 09:38:19 PM »
One day I will enter the Vatican's inner chambers and peek into their secret books.
I guess huge reptile guards might try to deter me from my truth seeking but I'm ready to thrown down... intergalactic fistfights... anybody, anywhere, anytime.




If you bring a Grey with you you should be ok

BigRo

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Re: Christ
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2014, 12:40:15 AM »
 

I know that there is no god. The concept is stupid, and is designed to appeal to the simple minded. It's a way to control masses of people for the benefit of their masters. It's absurd, and sad, that billions of people waste their lives groveling in fear and pray to some kind of fiction.

Look, there is a discussion about this "book". Not the whole "there is no god". Let's not derail it.
You nor I (nor any other "author") know definitively whether there is or is not a God. We can say that "we believe" as such. But, knowing, we do not.


Thou art That