California city prohibits gender specific restrooms

[Dos Equis]

Eleven states sue over Obama administration's transgender directive
Published May 25, 2016
FoxNews.com

Texas and 10 other states filed suit Wednesday against the Obama administration over its directive on transgender student access to public school facilities, firing the first shot in what is likely to be a protracted and messy legal battle over that guidance.

The suit was filed in a Texas federal court in response to the directive handed down to schools earlier this month that said transgender students should be able to use bathrooms and locker rooms that match their gender identity.

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton announced the lawsuit at a Wednesday news conference, saying the directives represent an attempt by the administration to rewrite the law.

“This represents just the latest example of the current administration’s attempts to accomplish by executive fiat what they couldn’t accomplish through the democratic process in Congress," Paxton said.

Joining Texas in the suit were: Alabama, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Tennessee, Arizona's Department of Education, Maine Gov. Paul LePage, Oklahoma, Louisiana, Utah and Georgia.

“Defendants have conspired to turn workplaces and educational settings across the country into laboratories for a massive social experiment, flouting the democratic process, and running roughshod over commonsense policies protecting children and basic privacy rights,” the lawsuit says.

Conservative states had vowed to defy the federal directive, calling it a threat to the safety of students. Texas' lieutenant governor has previously said the state is willing to forfeit $10 billion in federal education dollars rather than comply.

"President Obama has excluded the voice of the people. We stand today to ensure those voices are heard," Paxton said.   

The directive from the U.S. Justice and Education departments represents an escalation in the fast-moving dispute over what is becoming the civil rights issue of the day.

While the letter does not have the force of law, it does warn that schools that do not abide by the administration’s interpretation of civil rights under the Title IX law may face lawsuits or loss of federal aid.

"There is no room in our schools for discrimination of any kind, including discrimination against transgender students on the basis of their sex," Attorney General Loretta Lynch said in a statement when the guidlines were announced earlier this month.

The guidance was issued after the Justice Department and North Carolina sued each other over a state law that requires transgender people to use the public bathroom that corresponds to the sex on their birth certificate. The law applies to schools and many other places.

Supporters say such measures are needed to protect women and children from sexual predators, while the Justice Department and others argue the threat is practically nonexistent and the law discriminatory.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/25/eleven-states-sue-over-obama-administrations-transgender-directive.html?intcmp=hpbt1

[Primemuscle]

And I'm sorry about your daughter going through that, Prime.

But I'm sure you wouldn't want her to contend with weirdos in the can, especially when she was a little girl.

We all contend with "weirdos" from time to time, regardless of the location even if we don't know it. Many transgendered folks are obvious because of their appearance. This seems preferable to someone who looks normal and harmless but isn't, like Ted Bundy.

[Las Vegas]

We all contend with "weirdos" from time to time, regardless of the location even if we don't know it. Many transgendered folks are obvious because of their appearance. This seems preferable to someone who looks normal and harmless but isn't, like Ted Bundy.

No, the 'weirdo' I'm thinking of is the grown man who would decide to follow a 10-yr-old girl into the restroom.  If you don't think it would be a frequent occurrence with community restrooms (the idea you brought up, earlier) then you're kidding yourself.

[TuHolmes]

No, the 'weirdo' I'm thinking of is the grown man who would decide to follow a 10-yr-old girl into the restroom.  If you don't think it would be a frequent occurrence with community restrooms (the idea you brought up, earlier) then you're kidding yourself.

Is it a frequent occurance now? I seriously ask because laws don't stop crime. Creepers will always creep.

[Las Vegas]

Is it a frequent occurance now? I seriously ask because laws don't stop crime. Creepers will always creep.

Yes, creepers will creep and that's why we can't enact insane ideas which can only help them along. 

A man doesn't belong in a restroom with a young girl, and it couldn't be any more clear.

[TuHolmes]

Yes, creepers will creep and that's why we can't enact insane ideas which can only help them along. 

A man doesn't belong in a restroom with a young girl, and it couldn't be any more clear.

Do you see this as some kind of problem though? I mean, before, everyone was just minding their business using their bathroom, now you have some law... Why?

Why do you care what other people have between their legs?

I don't. This is a big red herring and you know it.

[Las Vegas]

Do you see this as some kind of problem though? I mean, before, everyone was just minding their business using their bathroom, now you have some law... Why?

Why do you care what other people have between their legs?

I don't. This is a big red herring and you know it.

No, we don't need laws either way.  It will only create problems.

Prime had some sort of fit earlier which caused him to envision "community restrooms" where a man could enter just as freely as a young girl, and that's not right.

No, IMO we leave everything as it has been.  It's worked for us up to now, so let's not pretend we need to change it.  We're on the same page, there.

[Primemuscle]

No, the 'weirdo' I'm thinking of is the grown man who would decide to follow a 10-yr-old girl into the restroom.  If you don't think it would be a frequent occurrence with community restrooms (the idea you brought up, earlier) then you're kidding yourself.

In many cases, you wouldn't send a ten year old to the restroom alone. Why take that risk? As mentioned, long before unisex restrooms, there were creeps/pedophiles. An older female or an older male using the appropriate restroom could be up to no good.

[Las Vegas]

In many cases, you wouldn't send a ten year old to the restroom alone. Why take that risk?

Happens all the time, though.  So..

As mentioned, long before unisex restrooms, there were creeps/pedophiles. An older female or an older male using the appropriate restroom could be up to no good.

I'd say that's all the information you need, in order to realize the problem would get worse with the type of restroom you've described.

[Las Vegas]

Btw, Prime... I noticed you said "appropriate" when you described the restroom being used.

This is pretty basic stuff, I'm sure you can't deny.

[Primemuscle]

Btw, Prime... I noticed you said "appropriate" when you described the restroom being used.

This is pretty basic stuff, I'm sure you can't deny.

Good catch! The assumption is that the restrooms I mentioned would be identified as men's or women's (gender specific) and not gender neutral. I've known more than a few women who will use the men's room in a pinch. Do men regularly use women's rooms? ....I am thinking they don't.

Most gender neutral restrooms today are for single use. It is rare, but some larger gender neutral facilities have privacy screens. I've not seen how these function, so I have no idea if they work or not.

Basically, restrooms are used for shitting and pissing and occasionally primping. These are not exactly sexually charged activities except to the folks who have these sorts of fetishes.
 

[Primemuscle]

Happens all the time, though.  So..

Shame on the parents! At least stand outside the door to insure no one else gets in. Most gender neutral, single use restrooms have locks on their doors.

[Las Vegas]

Good catch! The assumption is that the restrooms I mentioned would be identified as men's or women's (gender specific) and not gender neutral. I've known more than a few women who will use the men's room in a pinch. Do men regularly use women's rooms? ....I am thinking they don't.

Most gender neutral restrooms today are for single use. It is rare, but some larger gender neutral facilities have privacy screens. I've not seen how these function, so I have no idea if they work or not.

Basically, restrooms are used for shitting and pissing and occasionally primping. These are not exactly sexually charged activities except to the folks who have these sorts of fetishes.
 

Those are hardly sexually-charged activities, true, but it doesn't seem to stop the pervs from hanging around restrooms (as you pointed out a few posts up).

No, I hadn't heard of the multi-use unisex ones.  Are those being used in the states, that you know of?

[Las Vegas]

And I'm trying to figure out any advantage to changing our long-held tradition with restrooms.

What is it, again?

[Primemuscle]

And I'm trying to figure out any advantage to changing our long-held tradition with restrooms.

What is it, again?

I may have to agree with you. Depending on how many transgender folks there are, we may be overdoing this.

In my opinion some of the gyms I go to have ideal setups as do many restaurants. In the hallway to the men's and women's locker rooms are a couple of gender neutral/handicapped single use rest rooms that lock for privacy. Inside each respective locker room is a gender specific multi use restroom. Many newer restaurants have two gender neutral, single use restrooms. The one downside to these is that they don't have urinals so it's back to the problem of leaving the toilet seat up or down when you really don't want to touch it anyway. If you piss standing up with leaving the seat down, there is a strong chance you'll get pee on the toilet seat. If you lift it to pee, you probably will touch it twice.

I solved these problems when I was a kid by never using a public restroom. Eventually, I got over my phobia.

[tonymctones]

I may have to agree with you. Depending on how many transgender folks there are, we may be overdoing this.

In my opinion some of the gyms I go to have ideal setups as do many restaurants. In the hallway to the men's and women's locker rooms are a couple of gender neutral/handicapped single use rest rooms that lock for privacy. Inside each respective locker room is a gender specific multi use restroom. Many newer restaurants have two gender neutral, single use restrooms. The one downside to these is that they don't have urinals so it's back to the problem of leaving the toilet seat up or down when you really don't want to touch it anyway. If you piss standing up with leaving the seat down, there is a strong chance you'll get pee on the toilet seat. If you lift it to pee, you probably will touch it twice.

I solved these problems when I was a kid by never using a public restroom. Eventually, I got over my phobia.

I think they tried this and the transgendered complained that it was separate but equal...

[Las Vegas]

I may have to agree with you. Depending on how many transgender folks there are, we may be overdoing this.

In my opinion some of the gyms I go to have ideal setups as do many restaurants. In the hallway to the men's and women's locker rooms are a couple of gender neutral/handicapped single use rest rooms that lock for privacy. Inside each respective locker room is a gender specific multi use restroom. Many newer restaurants have two gender neutral, single use restrooms. The one downside to these is that they don't have urinals so it's back to the problem of leaving the toilet seat up or down when you really don't want to touch it anyway. If you piss standing up with leaving the seat down, there is a strong chance you'll get pee on the toilet seat. If you lift it to pee, you probably will touch it twice.

I solved these problems when I was a kid by never using a public restroom. Eventually, I got over my phobia.

Yes, I agree we could be going overboard on both sides.  The idea that a drag-queen/tranny or whatever (no disrespect to anyone) should be forced to use a restroom with males who may not "take kindly" to it, isn't realistic, either.  Someone may point out that we have laws against assault, etc. to say it's covered and no problem -- but it's a little more complicated than that IMO.

I think we're on the same page with this one.

[Primemuscle]

Yes, I agree we could be going overboard on both sides.  The idea that a drag-queen/tranny or whatever (no disrespect to anyone) should be forced to use a restroom with males who may not "take kindly" to it, isn't realistic, either.  Someone may point out that we have laws against assault, etc. to say it's covered and no problem -- but it's a little more complicated than that IMO.

I think we're on the same page with this one.

We are for sure. Just to be clear though, drag queens (transvestites) are different from transgender (transsexual) folks in that they usually like being the gender they are and therefore are not looking to change. Basically they are men who dress up in women's clothes. Transsexual folk actually believe their birth gender was wrong and want to change it.

As an adult, I'd have no problem sharing a public restroom with any of these folk, or with females for that matter. On the other hand, many children are impressionable. For most of those in our culture to be subjected to these anomalies at a young age could cause them some trauma and confusion. Note that other cultures have different views on this. Some impoverished 3rd world kid probably just goes to the bathroom wherever they are, disregarding those around them.

A digression: In much of Europe, beachwear is optional for children and somewhat optional for adults. On the beaches in France, grown women baring their breasts is not uncommon. Men often wear swimsuits that are as revealing as a bodybuilder's thong. (LOL) In cultures like these were nudity is no big deal, children are much less likely to be traumatized by it.

Depending on city ordinances, public nudity is not illegal (with provisions). This is the case in Portland, where I live and many other cities, such as San Francisco. Never the less, many folks are outraged by this and regularly complain about naked bike rides and parade nudity.  

[timfogarty]

In cultures like these were nudity is no big deal, children are much less likely to be traumatized by it.

Children aren't traumatized by things unless they've been told that it is wrong or evil or something to be afraid of ahead of time.  Children aren't born with cultural values.  They must learn them from their parents.  Children in this country aren't going to be traumatized by nudity or transgender or gay people unless they've already been conditioned by their parents to be traumatized by it.

[Las Vegas]

We are for sure. Just to be clear though, drag queens (transvestites) are different from transgender (transsexual) folks in that they usually like being the gender they are and therefore are not looking to change. Basically they are men who dress up in women's clothes. Transsexual folk actually believe their birth gender was wrong and want to change it.

As an adult, I'd have no problem sharing a public restroom with any of these folk, or with females for that matter. On the other hand, many children are impressionable. For most of those in our culture to be subjected to these anomalies at a young age could cause them some trauma and confusion. Note that other cultures have different views on this. Some impoverished 3rd world kid probably just goes to the bathroom wherever they are, disregarding those around them.

A digression: In much of Europe, beachwear is optional for children and somewhat optional for adults. On the beaches in France, grown women baring their breasts is not uncommon. Men often wear swimsuits that are as revealing as a bodybuilder's thong. (LOL) In cultures like these were nudity is no big deal, children are much less likely to be traumatized by it.

Depending on city ordinances, public nudity is not illegal (with provisions). This is the case in Portland, where I live and many other cities, such as San Francisco. Never the less, many folks are outraged by this and regularly complain about naked bike rides and parade nudity.  

I think they finally banned it in Berkeley and San Francisco (and some other places in Cali) but you're absolutely right, and it was said to be a common sight in some neighborhoods in those places.  Certain individuals would make it a point to roam around naked on the sidewalks every day, as though they expected to be applauded for it.

[Las Vegas]

I don't think we're concerned about people with legitimate intentions, using the restroom.  That's sort of the reason we've let things be the way they've been, because there aren't any other ways of doing it other than having all single-use (which isn't always practical).

[Primemuscle]

Children aren't traumatized by things unless they've been told that it is wrong or evil or something to be afraid of ahead of time.  Children aren't born with cultural values.  They must learn them from their parents.  Children in this country aren't going to be traumatized by nudity or transgender or gay people unless they've already been conditioned by their parents to be traumatized by it.

You've got this right! Unfortunately, there are more than a few parents passing their hangups on to their kids. This is true for much many more situations than nudity and sexual identity issues. Who do you supposed conditioned/trained the Boston Marathon bomber brothers, Timothy McVeigh, Neo-Nazis and other hate based groups? Just as we pass our genes on to our children we also strongly influence how they think and act.

[TuHolmes]

[Primemuscle]

How true! 

[Dos Equis]

lol.  One of the reasons I don't use swimming pools.