Author Topic: Global Warming  (Read 11099 times)

Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #50 on: March 03, 2015, 10:35:50 AM »
Obama has secured climate concessions from China and India as part of those UN talks. A similar deal with Canada could help offset the anticipated environmental damage from the TransCanada Corp. pipeline, responding to project opponents.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-02-25/u-s-said-to-tell-canada-its-climate-goal-may-play-keystone-role

What do you think about this?

First off, Obama did not secure any concessions from China.  China said they would cut emissions starting in 2030 but that there is really nothing keeping them from holding that promise fifteen years from now particularly when they have to answer to their own internal interests.

Even if the central government had an all-consuming drive to achieve this, economists say it must provide the proper economic incentives to local bureaucrats who are pivotal to executing policies on the ground.

“The feasibility of doing [this] depends on the local bureaucrats, so if the local bureaucrats resist then nothing can be done,” Xu Chenggang, professor who is a specialist in China’s economic development at the University of Hong Kong, tells TIME. “[It doesn’t] matter how strong the leader is, to get things done really depends on incentives.”

Xu explains that China’s three decades of robust economic expansion were only possible because local officials were able to profit from the country’s rapid transformation into an industrial powerhouse. However, questions remain over whether there will be as much money to go around during a transition to a greener economy.

“In turns out it’s very, very difficult to find a scheme which is going to give local bureaucrats sufficient incentives to take care of their environment,” says Xu.

And even then, activists say the world’s two largest emitters of CO2 have yet to commit to the types of policies needed to reverse the effects of climate change.

http://time.com/3580241/us-china-experts-climate-change-emissions-deal-apec/
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #51 on: March 03, 2015, 10:37:38 AM »
I should have said the Chinese aren't necessarily cutting their emissions but keeping them at the same level as 2005 after 2030. China is allowed to increase emissions significantly until 2030 and then hopefully they will bring the levels down to 2005 levels.  It's a shit deal that will benefit the Chinese.
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Croatch

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #52 on: March 03, 2015, 10:45:24 AM »
The government loves to create a problem, then offer the solution.
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mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #53 on: March 03, 2015, 11:54:48 AM »
I should have said the Chinese aren't necessarily cutting their emissions but keeping them at the same level as 2005 after 2030. China is allowed to increase emissions significantly until 2030 and then hopefully they will bring the levels down to 2005 levels.  It's a shit deal that will benefit the Chinese.

In principle and in fact the US can dictate emissions policy (and pretty much anything else) if it wants to. 

Far from a pointless scenario!
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #54 on: March 03, 2015, 12:04:01 PM »
In principle and in fact the US can dictate emissions policy (and pretty much anything else) if it wants to. 

Far from a pointless scenario!

Obviously that isn't true at all and American influence will continue to diminish as we lose economic power. 
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Teutonic Knight

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #55 on: March 03, 2015, 12:27:51 PM »
what are you wearing now?

girls don't wear panties in Oz  ;)

Teutonic Knight

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #56 on: March 03, 2015, 12:38:09 PM »
I can't wait for winter here. I can wear my jeans and a t shirt.

jeans shorts  ;)

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #57 on: March 03, 2015, 12:58:00 PM »
Obviously that isn't true at all and American influence will continue to diminish as we lose economic power.  

Your comfort with predicting the future aligns with your ideological baggage.
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #58 on: March 03, 2015, 01:03:39 PM »
Your comfort with predicting the future aligns with your ideological baggage.

Your comfort with being wrong aligns with your ideological bias.  China is allowed to greatly increase their emissions for the next fifteen.  After that fifteen years is up,  China may bring their emissions down to the already high 2005 levels.
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Rami

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #59 on: March 03, 2015, 01:36:05 PM »
I hope it's real. It better be worth it.

Don't matter if it's real or not, you gonna pay for it either way. A blanket of taxes and more control. To make everything more expensive and lower your living standards.

Might as well be real.

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #60 on: March 03, 2015, 01:45:45 PM »
Your comfort with being wrong aligns with your ideological bias.  China is allowed to greatly increase their emissions for the next fifteen.  After that fifteen years is up,  China may bring their emissions down to the already high 2005 levels.

Wouldn't it make sense to develop the technical solutions to these problems?

I guess the good news is we can buy it from them after they figure it out...hmmm
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #61 on: March 03, 2015, 01:47:59 PM »
Wouldn't it make sense to develop the technical solutions to these problems?

I guess the good news is we can buy it from them after they figure it out...hmmm

I already explained my views on technological solutions above.
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Rami

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #62 on: March 03, 2015, 01:50:09 PM »
War Ming = Gnim Raw = G Ni M Raw = Deny 'em Raw.

So they are going to deny us raw,,, food, no pulling out, what?

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #63 on: March 03, 2015, 02:04:20 PM »
I already explained my views on technological solutions above.

right the passive market concept.

China is a centralized economy so they don't have to make up these types of fairytales. They will mobilize their economy (If it hasn't already been put in motion) and own the technical solutions.

I guess the part where the market sorts it out is when they sell them to us later?
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #64 on: March 03, 2015, 02:09:26 PM »
right the passive market concept.

China is a centralized economy so they don't have to make up these types of fairytales. They will mobilize their economy (If it hasn't already been put in motion) and own the technical solutions.

I guess the part where the market sorts it out is when they sell them to us later?

China has no incentive to change it's policy or to pursue technological changes when what they are doing right now is cheap and effective. There is zero incentive for China to pursue new technologies because they simply don't have to in order to be successful.
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Agnostic007

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #65 on: March 03, 2015, 02:24:09 PM »
To those that believed in first, "Global Warming" and now in "Climate Change", I would say as I do to any others with a faith in something.

Live it.

Give  up  your modern conveniences and live off the land.  No electricity.  No HVAC.  No vehicles save those powered by your sweat and made by your own hand out of naturally occurring materials. 

And as so often is the case with others of faith, I would ask that you not dare share your "faith" with me (or anyone else for that matter) in any way.  Just live it completely and quietly. 

Kinda like the Amish, only even more primitive.  I wont tell you how to live your life and you can go about your business and not force  your faith upon me and mine.  Or anyone else for that matter.

Like that's gonna happen.

People only demand equality with those they envy.  The reality of it is this.  They just want to drag everyone down to their level of misery and then climb over them.

In this case, it's to turn on the AC they've earned with their carbon credits.  What a bunch of 'tards.  Dangerous 'tards.


Option B please... Recognize the vast majority of scientists in the field believe it to be real and realize there ain't a damn thing about it that affects me, and move on to the next Walking Dead episode

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #66 on: March 03, 2015, 02:26:48 PM »
China has no incentive to change it's policy or to pursue technological changes when what they are doing right now is cheap and effective. There is zero incentive for China to pursue new technologies because they simply don't have to in order to be successful.

This is the key assumption that is false.  It's no secret that the status quo over there cannot be maintained. In fact something pretty major needs to happen to simply maintain the economic trajectory. If it reduces the likelihood of human extinction even better.
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #67 on: March 03, 2015, 02:34:55 PM »
This is the key assumption that is false.  It's no secret that the status quo over there cannot be maintained. In fact something pretty major needs to happen to simply maintain the economic trajectory. If it reduces the likelihood of human extinction even better.

The status quo can be maintained as long as it's profitable and it will remain profitable for decades.  As the United States manufacturing slows to a halt China has even less competition to be concerned about.  China has its fingers all over the globe and shows no signs of stopping and they will fuel that machine with fossil fuels.  We haven't talk about India.
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AbrahamG

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #68 on: March 03, 2015, 03:16:42 PM »
This is the key assumption that is false.  It's no secret that the status quo over there cannot be maintained. In fact something pretty major needs to happen to simply maintain the economic trajectory. If it reduces the likelihood of human extinction even better.

Hell, I like you.  You can come over to my house and fuck my sister.

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2015, 03:29:33 PM »
The status quo can be maintained as long as it's profitable and it will remain profitable for decades.  As the United States manufacturing slows to a halt China has even less competition to be concerned about.  China has its fingers all over the globe and shows no signs of stopping and they will fuel that machine with fossil fuels.  We haven't talk about India.

That's a reasonable argument.  Decades is not that long and it's possible the world may not be destroyed in just a few decades. If you assume it's worth thinking that far ahead it's only natural to concern yourself with solutions.
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mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2015, 03:30:20 PM »
Hell, I like you.  You can come over to my house and fuck my sister.

 ;D
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2015, 03:33:41 PM »
That's a reasonable argument.  Decades is not that long and it's possible the world may not be destroyed in just a few decades. If you assume it's worth thinking that far ahead it's only natural to concern yourself with solutions.

I'm not going to worry about something that is beyond my control.  Economic and governmental interests hold all the cards.  I'm also not going to pin my hopes on future technologies there is no guarantee will come to fruition.  Obama's deal with China was meaningless.  It's not even binding.  It makes great press but does not and makes no guarantees of future action. 
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Archer77

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #72 on: March 03, 2015, 03:38:29 PM »
I would also argue that if Africa ever begins to develop in any appreciable way the international community will not attempt to encourage restrictions on their energy consumption and carbon emissions. The reason will be humanitarian.  It will be considered unfair.   I doubt African's will on it's own but China has a strong presence in Africa.  
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booty

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #73 on: March 03, 2015, 04:16:56 PM »
jeans shorts  ;)
Get so tired of always dressing in a summer wardrobe. I can only wear my leather jacket when I travel overseas.

mr.turbo

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Re: Global Warming
« Reply #74 on: March 03, 2015, 04:20:02 PM »
I'm not going to worry about something that is beyond my control.  Economic and governmental interests hold all the cards.  I'm also not going to pin my hopes on future technologies there is no guarantee will come to fruition.  Obama's deal with China was meaningless.  It's not even binding.  It makes great press but does not and makes no guarantees of future action. 

You don't have to feel any particular way about it. At this point, it's the dishonesty that is the  problem. Not everyone is concerned about this but it's very strange position. I saw somewhere that there exists an inverse relationship with economic status and level of concern for the environment. You must be doing pretty well!  
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