Author Topic: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida  (Read 4464 times)

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2015, 08:08:58 AM »
I don't want to keep cutting and pasting but there is important info here.  I think this boils down to some things look better on better.


Unemployment Is Still High: As of December 2014, there were over 1.3 million Californians unemployed. This is down from a peak of over 2.2 million, but it is still 277,000 higher than the number of unemployed Californians at the start of the recession. While California's U3 unemployment rate is once again down 5.5 points, it is still 1.3 points higher than the pre-recession level.

Two other methods to examine the true employment picture are the employment-to-population ratio (i.e. what percentage of the civilian non-institutionalized population is employed) and the U6 unemployment rate (which includes marginally attached workers and workers employed part-time because of economic reasons). California's employment-to-population ratio currently is 58.1%, down 4 points from the beginning of the recession. In other words, 42% of the state's civilian non-institutionalized population (everyone sixteen and older not institutionalized in some manner, such as in prison or a nursing home, or deployed or in active duty on a military base) isn't working for some reason. And the state's U6 unemployment rate is 15.8%, almost 6 points higher than it was in 2007. While Brown rightly notes California's unemployment rate is falling, it doesn't necessarily mean California's unemployment picture has improved.


A Job Market Dominated by Part-Time Workers: In December 2007, roughly 3 million California workers were part-time, including just over 678,000 who were working part-time for economic reasons (i.e. the market was forcing them to work part-time, not by choice). This ratio, 3.4 "by-choice" part-time workers to "economic" part-time workers, is roughly where California stood for much of the early to mid-2000s. By the end of the recession in June 2009, that ratio had fallen to just 1.5 "by choice" part-time workers to "economic" ones, suggesting the state's job market shifted significantly in nature over the course of the recession. Over the last 6 years, the ratio has only risen to 1.8. The number of part-time workers due to economic reasons is still almost two times the size as before the recession and is down just roughly 100,000 since the end of the recession. While Brown notes 1.3 million new jobs have been created in the last four years, there are still over 1.2 million Californians working part-time who don't want to be.

There is obviously something still not right with California's underlying economy. In total, over 2.5 million Californians are either unemployed or working part-time when they would rather be working full-time. The question is why. The clearest underlying rationale is that economic growth has been rather tepid, especially when compared with previous recoveries. Between 2009-2010 and 2012-2013, real GDP grew by an average of 1.8% per year. Coming out of the previous recession (2002-2003 to 2005-2006), real GDP grew over two times faster, on average, per year (3.8%). And one of the greatest culprits for California's sluggish economic growth is the fact that the state is regularly rated as the worst in which to do business. As one CEO puts it, "California's attitude toward business makes you question why anyone would build a business there."

http://www.realclearmarkets.com/articles/2015/01/29/digging_beneath_californias_surface_economic_recovery_101510.html


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Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2015, 08:17:41 AM »
I'm not saying nor have I ever said I don't believe California is making some economic gains.  I'm just not convinced the recovery is all it's cracked up to be or that California's long term prognosis is rosey.  I also think California doesn't offer a lot of upward mobility for working class people.  I want the Gonzales and the Martinez families to be able to buy their own home in a nice neighbor and not be relegated to working low wage part time jobs and living in a small apartment surrounded wall to wall by family members.  I don't think California economy provides that opportunity for them.


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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #27 on: March 18, 2015, 08:31:11 AM »
isn't that where your located ,how you doing

Yes, but I'm also expendable and usually the first to get cut out of a budget. But we do very well because we change our business plan as often as needed but more importantly we don't have a penny of business debt. But that doesn't mean I want the cutting into my profits with bullshit taxes. I'm in business to make money and help people.

Jack T. Cross

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #28 on: March 18, 2015, 09:07:59 AM »
Last time I was in Silicon Valley, thought I'd been teleported to India.

When you read stats about "Asians in tech", that's largely what it means.

Straw Man

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #29 on: March 18, 2015, 09:35:51 AM »
Here's the bottom line

Kansas implemented teabag/right winger wet dream of economic fantasy and fully fucking believed the trickle down nonsense (go look at Brownbacks public statements at the time) that has never worked and surprise surprise it didn't work.....again.   They torpedoed their economy.

CA on the other hand raised taxes (among other things) and the economy is doing quite well.   One also has to keep in mind that this is a huge state with micro economies within the larger economy but all in all that's the bottom line comparison.

Trickle Down Economics is a total failure yet Repubs will continue to ignore the reality of the disaster in Kansas (and expect us all to do the same) do they can keep promoting the nonsense that doesn't help anyone except the uber rich

BTW - this statement in the original article is nonsense

 
Quote
I see everyone with a living wage and healthcare.

Obviously this can't be true of "everyone" anywhere but there is better access to healthcare and a living wage than many other places


Jack T. Cross

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #30 on: March 18, 2015, 09:46:42 AM »
Here's the bottom line

Kansas implemented teabag/right winger wet dream of economic fantasy and fully fucking believed the trickle down nonsense (go look at Brownbacks public statements at the time) that has never worked and surprise surprise it didn't work.....again.   They torpedoed their economy.

CA on the other hand raised taxes (among other things) and the economy is doing quite well.   One also has to keep in mind that this is a huge state with micro economies within the larger economy but all in all that's the bottom line comparison.

Trickle Down Economics is a total failure yet Repubs will continue to ignore the reality of the disaster in Kansas (and expect us all to do the same) do they can keep promoting the nonsense that doesn't help anyone except the uber rich

BTW - this statement in the original article is nonsense

 
Obviously this can't be true of "everyone" anywhere but there is better access to healthcare and a living wage than many other places

Yeah, I don't understand why someone would pepper ridiculous stuff into something that's expected to be believed.  Always makes me wonder what they're thinking, or how well-grounded in reality they are.

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2015, 09:51:25 AM »
Here's the bottom line

Kansas implemented teabag/right winger wet dream of economic fantasy and fully fucking believed the trickle down nonsense (go look at Brownbacks public statements at the time) that has never worked and surprise surprise it didn't work.....again.   They torpedoed their economy.

CA on the other hand raised taxes (among other things) and the economy is doing quite well.   One also has to keep in mind that this is a huge state with micro economies within the larger economy but all in all that's the bottom line comparison.

Trickle Down Economics is a total failure yet Repubs will continue to ignore the reality of the disaster in Kansas (and expect us all to do the same) do they can keep promoting the nonsense that doesn't help anyone except the uber rich

BTW - this statement in the original article is nonsense

 
Obviously this can't be true of "everyone" anywhere but there is better access to healthcare and a living wage than many other places



Doing well for a particular group of people in very particular areas.  It's disingenuous to take small examples of regional growth and apply that to the state overall and claim success.  It's also important to understand what that growth really means for the average Californian in practical terms.  Employment might go up slightly but its part time low wage employment.
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Straw Man

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2015, 10:28:42 AM »
Doing well for a particular group of people in very particular areas.  It's disingenuous to take small examples of regional growth and apply that to the state overall and claim success.  It's also important to understand what that growth really means for the average Californian in practical terms.  Employment might go up slightly but its part time low wage employment.

not sure if you're referring to my post or not

All states have good and bad areas (economically, financially etc..) and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise

My post was about the fact that Kansas implemented right wing trickle down bullshit statewide and torpedoed their entire state economy

California raised taxes (among other things as mentioned in the article) statewide (should obviously go without saying) and we can look at the results. 

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2015, 10:34:14 AM »
not sure if you're referring to my post or not

All states have good and bad areas (economically, financially etc..) and it would be disingenuous to pretend otherwise

My post was about the fact that Kansas implemented right wing trickle down bullshit statewide and torpedoed their entire state economy

California raised taxes (among other things as mentioned in the article) statewide (should obviously go without saying) and we can look at the results. 

Have you broken down the "results?"   
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Straw Man

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2015, 11:00:29 AM »
Have you broken down the "results?"   

yes, completely and 100%

thanks for asking

again, my point was about what Kansas did to destroy their economy as compared to what California did

Brownback was fully convinced his teabag wet dream was going to be an economic miracle and he was completely dumbfounded that it actually harmed his economy

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2015, 11:03:44 AM »
yes, completely and 100%

thanks for asking

again, my point was about what Kansas did to destroy their economy as compared to what California did

Brownback was fully convinced his teabag wet dream was going to be an economic miracle and he was completely dumbfounded that it actually harmed his economy

So you think everything is going great in California?  Switched to the strawman account?
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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2015, 11:07:58 AM »
So you think everything is going great in California?  Switched to the strawman account?

Ask him if he's done it completely unbiased. You can put a spin on anything if you want it to go your way. He thinks it's great, I think we're getting raped.

Straw Man

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2015, 11:19:16 AM »
Ask him if he's done it completely unbiased. You can put a spin on anything if you want it to go your way. He thinks it's great, I think we're getting raped.

we both live in CA and you believe you're getting raped ?

Why don't you move to Kansas and then you can pretend everything is going great

Apparently there is no shortage of delusion in that state


blacken700

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2015, 11:22:46 AM »
we both live in CA and you believe you're getting raped ?

Why don't you move to Kansas and then you can pretend everything is going great

Apparently there is no shortage of delusion in that state



he's doing good in ca and he knows it,he's just carrying the repub water right now ;D

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2015, 11:32:02 AM »
Ask him if he's done it completely unbiased. You can put a spin on anything if you want it to go your way. He thinks it's great, I think we're getting raped.

Personally I think it's more complicated in California and no one should be patting themselves on the back yet
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Straw Man

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2015, 11:36:19 AM »
he's doing good in ca and he knows it,he's just carrying the repub water right now ;D

forget CA

how about looking at the self created disaster in Kansas

Brownback bragged that as he signed one of the biggest tax cuts in recent history that it was going to be a like "a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy."

Instead it was a direct hit with a torpedo that is sinking their economy and right wingers want us all to pretend its not happening

blacken700

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2015, 11:40:59 AM »
the old trickle down economics :D didn'twork with the first bush and doesn't work now,unless your rich you are not going to benefit from it

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2015, 11:48:47 AM »
Personally I think it's more complicated in California and no one should be patting themselves on the back yet

I guess you missed the part where I said I carry no business debt as well as my overhead being low. This is done intentionally. Even though most businesses try to keep OH low, they carry a shitload of debt that kills profit. When regulation and taxes hit and rise that kills profit and sends the business either under or scrambling to borrow to keep a float which leads to more debt. Then you have law makers that want to raise the min wage? Another business killer. Welcome to California. California is not business friendly.

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2015, 11:53:25 AM »
I guess you missed the part where I said I carry no business debt as well as my overhead being low. This is done intentionally. Even though most businesses try to keep OH low, they carry a shitload of debt that kills profit. When regulation and taxes hit and rise that kills profit and sends the business either under or scrambling to borrow to keep a float which leads to more debt. Then you have law makers that want to raise the min wage? Another business killer. Welcome to California. California is not business friendly.

Haha, I wasn't referring to you. I meant the state of California
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Al Doggity

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2015, 11:56:44 AM »
So you think everything is going great in California?  Switched to the strawman account?

Ah, so heré's the post  ;)

Apparently,I'm Strawman, too. I won't drag this mess into another thread, but your "evidence" for all of my various gimmick accounts is if they disagree with you? On a political forum??  ::)


Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #45 on: March 18, 2015, 11:58:44 AM »
Ah, so heré's the post  ;)

Apparently,I'm Strawman, too. I won't drag this mess into another thread, but your "evidence" for all of my various gimmick accounts is if they disagree with you? On a political forum??  ::)



This is what he looks like.   It's amazing you knew right where to post, in a thread strawman was posting in. Coincidence?
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Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #46 on: March 18, 2015, 12:02:13 PM »
I know what you are all thinking.  I never thought anyone could be fatter and uglier than shizzo.

This is rrkore, strawman, Al doggity.  He came right to the thread his other gimmick was posting in.
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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #47 on: March 18, 2015, 12:03:09 PM »
Haha, I wasn't referring to you. I meant the state of California

Oh no, I was responding to Blacken. sorry. I quoted the wrong person :(

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #48 on: March 18, 2015, 12:05:24 PM »
This is what he looks like.   It's amazing you knew right where to post, in a thread strawman was posting in. Coincidence?

That's strawman?

Archer77

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Re: A Tale of Three States: California, Kansas, and Florida
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2015, 12:08:22 PM »
That's strawman?

Yep. He will deny it but it's him.  His other gimmick immediately posted in this thread after I made the accusation.  He's disgusting.   Kore has multiple gimmicks
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