Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[gib]

Its a very primitive way of thinking, but understandable at the same time. Monkeys and dogs also have similar concerns and hesitations when learning new concepts. Caution has been a desirable human trait in terms of our survival. But an even more important trait that has been key to human success and evolution, both as a group and as individuals, has been open-mindedness and curiosity (as opposed to obstinate pig-headedness of the kind demonstrated by Mr Anabolic throughout this thread, which is more akin to a goat repeatedly bashing its head against a tree).

Oh, and $25000...
*1000 Satoshies cost you just  USD $0.25. (Still very cheap!)

[gib]

[gib]

Humble Narcissist - This is a nice presentation from the "Rich Dad Poor Dad" guy, which you may find of interest. It covers the issues you are grappling with. 

Mr Anabolic, you too should take a listen. He also discusses your favorites, gold and silver.

Gents take a listen and then let me know if you have any comments or questions.

[polychronopolous]

Miami Mayor explores idea to put 1% treasury reserves into Bitcoin

Francis Suarez, Mayor of Miami said that he was “definitely open to exploring” new resident Anthony Pompliano’s suggestion of allocating “1% of the city’s treasury reserves in Bitcoin.”

He also mentioned that Florida’s Chief Financial Officer, Jimmy Patronis was “forward-thinking” about blockchain and crypto technology. Suarez said this in response to the CFO’s tweet that seconded Pompliano’s suggestion. Florida’s CFO, Jimmy Patronis who commended the Mayor’s response further said: 

Even Charlie Shrem of Bitcoin Foundation joined the conversation and hoped for the entire state of Florida to be more bitcoin friendly. He also suggested that the Mayor could host a “Florida and Miami-sponsored crypto event,” which he believed would be a global success.

The Mayor is not entirely new to crypto-Twitter conversations. On 24 December, Suarez revealed that he was “absolutely exploring” a tweet that proposed making Miami the first crypto-centric government in the US. The mayor implied that was open to crypto-based concepts such as blockchain-based voting and tokenization by retweeting:

In another tweet, Suarez said hoped that South Florida would be “on the vanguard of legislation that promotes crypto and makes us forward-leaning on innovation.” He even planned to speak to Caitlin Long, of Wyoming Blockchain Taskforce fame, with regard to this idea.


https://ambcrypto.com/miami-mayor-explores-idea-to-put-1-treasury-reserves-into-bitcoin/

[SOMEPARTS]

BTC is worth more than the entire market cap of Berkshire Hathaway. 

[gib]

BTC is worth more than the entire market cap of Berkshire Hathaway. 

Poor old Mr Anabolic...

[FitnessFrenzy]

$ 29,313.03

[polychronopolous]

Gold Bug Peter Schiff's Understanding of Money is Flawed, Says His Pro-Bitcoin Son

 Gold bug Peter Schiff has been publicly confronted by his 18-year-old son, a bitcoin proponent, on the topic of value. Calling his dad’s understanding of money “Flawed,” Spencer Schiff made the statement in defense of TV Personality Max Keiser, who was having an argument with Peter on Twitter.


Gold bug Peter Schiff was confronted by his son, Spencer Schiff, on Monday after he accused TV personality and bitcoin proponent Max Keiser of not understanding the concept of fiat money.

“According to Max Keiser, I oppose bitcoin because I’m a fiat addict. In the bizarro world of bitcoin, gold is the new fiat,” Peter Schiff tweeted. “Clearly, Max Keiser doesn’t understand the concept of fiat, or how it differs from legitimate currency or actual money. That explains his bitcoin fixation.” At the time of this writing, his tweet got 354 comments and was liked 877 times and retweeted 67 times.

Among those who commented was his son, an 18-year-old bitcoin proponent. Spencer Schiff, a college freshman and student of Austrian economics, replied to his father’s tweet:

    Your understanding of money is flawed. You think the key determinant of a money’s soundness is possession of ‘intrinsic value’, a nonsensical concept. What differentiates sound money from fiat money is the former’s emergence on the free market rather than by coercive State edicts.

Many commenters praised Spencer for putting Peter Schiff in his place, with some wondering if he was adopted. Keiser also liked Spencer’s tweet, stating that “The future belongs to bitcoiners. The boomers don’t get it. The millennials and Genz do.” He also urged others to follow Spencer on Twitter.

“By all means follow my son,” Peter Schiff replied. “But not because he has a soft spot for bitcoin. He’s wrong about that. Follow him for all the things he gets right. He’s no monetary scholar yet, but he’s working on it. Losing money on bitcoin will be a costly, but valuable part of his education.”

https://news.bitcoin.com/gold-bug-peter-schiffs-understanding-of-money-is-flawed-pro-bitcoin-son/

[gib]

Former White House official launches a BTC fund, frontrunning what he sees as massive fund inflow in 2021.

He advises to simply BUY, and HODL.

[gib]

Reality check...

Everything happening exactly as I predicted....

Stock market beginning it's fall...

Blipcoins dropping fast and will eventually go to ZERO.

Most people are so fucking gullible.  Human nature is so predictable.

Blips will be in the $3000's by next week.

Happy NEW YEAR Mr Anabolic!

Oh, and $26,000

*still super cheap - just USD 26 cents for 1000 Satoshies!

[FitnessFrenzy]

$ 30,657.98

[polychronopolous]

Nasdaq Listed Greenpro Capital to Set up Bitcoin Fund Using a $100 Million Loan


The Nasdaq listed Greenpro Capital Corporation has revealed plans to set up a bitcoin fund using $100 million in borrowed funds. In addition to the borrowed funds, Greenpro, through its subsidiary Cryptosx, says it plans to use its own cash resources to acquire the digital asset.

The financial services firm which has its headquarters in Hong kong joins the growing list of banks, hedge funds, insurance companies and institutions holding bitcoin. In a statement announcing plans to set up the fund, Greenpro shares its “belief that bitcoin, as the world’s most widely-adopted cryptocurrency, is a reliable future store of value.” The statement also adds:

    We believe the strategic management of our balance sheet, combined with the implementation of our BTC Fund and crypto strategy will produce significant future value for the company.

Furthermore, according to the statement released on December 28, the firm’s CEO CK Lee has already instructed Greenpro’s “investment bankers to raise debt in Q1, 2021 of up to US$100 million to invest in BTC.”

Meanwhile, in addition to BTC, Greenpro Capital says it also believes that “other top cryptocurrencies such as Ethereum will provide the opportunity for better returns and preserve the value of our capital over time rather than holding cash.”

From the beginning of the last quarter of 2020, BTC has been on an extended bull run as large corporations took turns in announcing that they will be holding the digital asset. According to the website that tracks public companies holding the digital asset, there are now 29 such companies.

 https://news.bitcoin.com/nasdaq-listed-greenpro-capital-to-set-up-bitcoin-fund-using-a-100-million-loan/

[FitnessFrenzy]

$ 32,814.11

holy f this is getting crazy!

[robcguns]

$ 32,814.11

holy f this is getting crazy!

Easy 250k this year.

[Mayday]

$ 32,814.11

holy f this is getting crazy!

It's getting risky now. Out of Eth @ 772.

BTC to peak maybe 34k-36k then a pullback however i think it's most likely the pullback won't be as deep as previous ones.

Look at the sharemarket behaviour:
GFC - Dow Jones drops 49%
Pandemic (arguably WAY worse than the GFC) - Dow Jones drops 35% and it has already broken it's previous high.
**BTC behaviour in the charts is just when it looks to puke it gets legs and goes on a run. It doesn't feel the same as it did in 2017/2018 (where i sold).

If we use 35% as a guide the pullback from 34k should give a low of 22k.
It we use 49% as a guide the pullback from 34k should give a low of 17.5k
*These are the 2 entry points i am watching in the charts so i'll have an idea of where it's headed.


Alt coins will get smashed. I am only interested in Eth and the support zones are - 350 & 220 hence why i couldn't risk holding ETH any longer.

I am still debating whether i buy the dip on Eth.

[Mayday]

Easy 250k this year.

For that to happen they require gold to start ramping. For gold to start ramping, they really need to start ramping inflation.

Here is a quick analysis of mine while i have a coffee. I use data tables to investigate outcomes which is what i do very well in my job. This is why i get shit correct and why people who take 2 seconds to draw a line and then conclude an outcome are 99% wrong most of the time.

The below also outlines how quickly the numbers go upwards but you need to remember each year it's the same energy percentage. If you position yourself today, you will be laughing by 2025.


Gold spot 1,889 and market cap is 11.5T   /   BTC spot is 32,200 and market cap is 0.59T

Gold up 28% - underperformed due to deflation and lack of inflationary monetary policy
BTC up 300%

So lets average gold growth at 25% each year from end of 2020 to 2025. This is a piss poor result from Gold and a horrible outcome for all of us!!
2020 - 1,889 / 2,361 / 2,951 / 3,689 / 4,611 / 5,764
Gold market cap 2020 11.5T / 14.4T / 18.0T / 22.5T / 28.1T / 35.1T
**So in a horrible scenario and inline with monetary policy today, we have the price of gold tripling and a gold market cap around 35.1T.

Therefore for 2021 a worst case gold price is $2,361 with a market cap around 14.4T.

BTC is currently 4% of the gold market. If gold plays out like above and you expect a 250k price, that means a BTC 5.25T market cap / 36% of the entire gold market. No way is that going to happen in 1 year.


Ok so lets look at gold again and start mid way through 1976 where gold bottomed at $100 and follow through to 1980. I will use prices that are highs (not outliers) during the years.
1976 - 100
1977 - 160 / 60.48 / 60%
1978 - 235 / 74.52 / 46%
1979 - 560 / 325 / 138%
1980 - 750 / 190 / 35%
Total gain - 650 / 650%

Lets use the 1976-1980 historic movements (arguably a less severe scenario than what we face total) and assume a 60% upwards move in gold in 2021 and go from there:
Year      gold spot   mkt cap    BTC spot   mkt cap
2020 - 1,889   / cap 11.5T       29.7k / cap 0.55T
2021 - 3,022  / cap 18.4T        47.5k / cap 0.88T 
2022 - 4,412  / cap 26.9T        69.3k / cap 1.3T
2023 - 10,502 / cap 63.9T       165k / cap 3.1T
2024 - 14,073 / cap 85.7T       212k / cap 4.1T

Gain - 12,184 / cap 74T           182k  / cap 3.55T
           645%                         


So there you have it using actual historic monetary/gold plays and overlaying with today's scenario meaning you get a very real outcome and not something from Mars. Personally i think gold will blow way past that level and will shock people.

Now that we have a future gold outlook which is realistic. You can then play with the BTC ratio to gold over time.
Start of 2020 BTC market cap was 1.8%
End of 2020 BTC market cap was 4.8%
Variance +3%

So lets assume 2021 adds another 3% to the ratio to wind up at 7.8% ratio to the gold market cap up from 4.8%.
2020 - 29.6k
2021 - 77.2k  / 1.4T market cap  up from 0.56T today.
**this looks more realistic to me for a 2021 outcome**

Now lets assume we continue increasing the ratio by 3% each year from 2021 onwards:
2020 - 29.6k  4.8%
2021 - 77.2k  7.8%
2022 - 156k   10.8%
2023 - 474k    13.8%
2024 - 774k    16.8%   market cap 14.3T

These last tables should really show you that it is incredibly realistic to get the values of both gold and BTC right up there in the coming years.

[gib]

Quote from: Mr Anabolic on November 13, 2013, 05:11:42 PM - (Back when the Bitcoin price $401, or when you could buy 100000 Satoshies for just 41 cents.)

"It's a scam, a fad, a bubble, a trading vehicle.  Might as well buy some penny stocks... at least they trade on a legit exchange.

Would not be surprised if bitcon was created by TPTB to trick as many as possible into accepting an electronic fiat currency... 100% trackable and controllable.  Don't believe all the encryption security nonsense.

Look at a daily bitcoin chart... totally parabolic.  The next crash will be glorious."

Poor old Mr Anabolic.  The stubbornly and steadfastly failed to acknowledge the future, much like a goat repeatedly bashing its head against a wall, instead of simply taking a few steps sideways to walk around it. It was all so simply and clearly laid our for him by others. There are many lessons in life, and in business, that we can learn from what happened here on his journey to eventual acceptance that he was wrong, (which will end with him making a public apology here, and with him purchasing some Bitcoin himself.)
 
Oh, and $27,000.

*still super cheap - just USD 27 cents for 1000 Satoshies!

[gib]

Mr Anabolic, Mayday and others. Below is a great video that touches on the various topics and concepts you guys have been debating. Well worth the listen from beginning to end. Super important that we understand what is happening and what lies ahead.

To Mr A specifically. Once you have listened, I challenge you come back here and post any questions, whether about macroeconomic trends, or BTC specifically.

As fellow Getbiggers we are all here to help each other grow (and that means not just physically, but mentally and financially also).

[gib]

For that to happen they require gold to start ramping. For gold to start ramping, they really need to start ramping inflation.

Here is a quick analysis of mine while i have a coffee. I use data tables to investigate outcomes which is what i do very well in my job. This is why i get shit correct and why people who take 2 seconds to draw a line and then conclude an outcome are 99% wrong most of the time.

The below also outlines how quickly the numbers go upwards but you need to remember each year it's the same energy percentage. If you position yourself today, you will be laughing by 2025.


Gold spot 1,889 and market cap is 11.5T   /   BTC spot is 32,200 and market cap is 0.59T

Gold up 28% - underperformed due to deflation and lack of inflationary monetary policy
BTC up 300%

So lets average gold growth at 25% each year from end of 2020 to 2025. This is a piss poor result from Gold and a horrible outcome for all of us!!
2020 - 1,889 / 2,361 / 2,951 / 3,689 / 4,611 / 5,764
Gold market cap 2020 11.5T / 14.4T / 18.0T / 22.5T / 28.1T / 35.1T
**So in a horrible scenario and inline with monetary policy today, we have the price of gold tripling and a gold market cap around 35.1T.

Therefore for 2021 a worst case gold price is $2,361 with a market cap around 14.4T.

BTC is currently 4% of the gold market. If gold plays out like above and you expect a 250k price, that means a BTC 5.25T market cap / 36% of the entire gold market. No way is that going to happen in 1 year.


Ok so lets look at gold again and start mid way through 1976 where gold bottomed at $100 and follow through to 1980. I will use prices that are highs (not outliers) during the years.
1976 - 100
1977 - 160 / 60.48 / 60%
1978 - 235 / 74.52 / 46%
1979 - 560 / 325 / 138%
1980 - 750 / 190 / 35%
Total gain - 650 / 650%

Lets use the 1976-1980 historic movements (arguably a less severe scenario than what we face total) and assume a 60% upwards move in gold in 2021 and go from there:
Year      gold spot   mkt cap    BTC spot   mkt cap
2020 - 1,889   / cap 11.5T       29.7k / cap 0.55T
2021 - 3,022  / cap 18.4T        47.5k / cap 0.88T 
2022 - 4,412  / cap 26.9T        69.3k / cap 1.3T
2023 - 10,502 / cap 63.9T       165k / cap 3.1T
2024 - 14,073 / cap 85.7T       212k / cap 4.1T

Gain - 12,184 / cap 74T           182k  / cap 3.55T
           645%                         


So there you have it using actual historic monetary/gold plays and overlaying with today's scenario meaning you get a very real outcome and not something from Mars. Personally i think gold will blow way past that level and will shock people.

Now that we have a future gold outlook which is realistic. You can then play with the BTC ratio to gold over time.
Start of 2020 BTC market cap was 1.8%
End of 2020 BTC market cap was 4.8%
Variance +3%

So lets assume 2021 adds another 3% to the ratio to wind up at 7.8% ratio to the gold market cap up from 4.8%.
2020 - 29.6k
2021 - 77.2k  / 1.4T market cap  up from 0.56T today.
**this looks more realistic to me for a 2021 outcome**

Now lets assume we continue increasing the ratio by 3% each year from 2021 onwards:
2020 - 29.6k  4.8%
2021 - 77.2k  7.8%
2022 - 156k   10.8%
2023 - 474k    13.8%
2024 - 774k    16.8%   market cap 14.3T

These last tables should really show you that it is incredibly realistic to get the values of both gold and BTC right up there in the coming years.

I was actually doing some similar calculations in my head a few nights ago!

I would add a few comments. In terms of money moving from Gold into BTC, and how this impacts BTC's price, its of course not as simple as money stored in gold moving to BTC. There will be many sources of money coming into BTC also, other than being converted from gold.

The Gold vs BTC market-cap ratio is going to be really interesting to watch. Will be fascinating to see the changes in global dynamics and in the financial system as BTC's market cap approaches parity with gold. And also to see if gold's value actually declines as BTC's rises, or whether gold still increases albeit at a much slower rate then BTC.

On a related note, at the physical gold trading exchange that I use in one of the countries where I reside (eg to buy and store physical gold), they now quote gold in BTC (among other international currencies), offer customers a gold to BTC conversion service, and also accept payment for gold in BTC. To me this really shows they "get it" and are preparing for the future. I expect this will only become more common at gold trading shops globally.

[Mayday]

Mr Anabolic, Mayday and others. Below is a great video that touches on the various topics and concepts you guys have been debating. Well worth the listen from beginning to end. Super important that we understand what is happening and what lies ahead.

I have listened to Saylor before and like with most speakers, there is only portions i agree with.

I tend to follow the gold and money supply speakers because they generally work off historical moments. BTC speakers tend to disregard that stuff which is what makes their claims questionable.

[IroNat]

Don't get caught with the hot potato.

[El Diablo Blanco]

Fucking Bitcoin.  I had people telling me to buy some at $1.50  and I never did. Fucking aye man.  In reality I don’t think I would have held on until now. Probably would have sold at $10k a while ago.  Still an awesome return if I bought into it. Knowing my luck I would have bought $10k worth and lose the thumb drive.

[Mayday]

I was actually doing some similar calculations in my head a few nights ago!

I would add a few comments. In terms of money moving from Gold into BTC, and how this impacts BTC's price, its of course not as simply as money stored in gold moving to BTC. There will be many sources of money coming into BTC also, other than being converted from gold.

The Gold vs BTC market-cap ratio is going to be really interesting to watch. Will be fascinating to see the changes in global dynamics and in the financial system as BTC's market cap approaches parity with gold. And also to see if gold's value actually declines as BTC's rises, or whether gold still increases albeit at a much slower rate then BTC.

Well i have done it for you now

A vital part in my example is that during that same 1976 to 1980 period consumer inflation went up only 50%....... 

Gold 650%
CPI 50%

The reason for this is because money follows the wealth gap where the wealthiest 5% own 95% meaning inflation follows the same trend.

In a ratio for percentage growth of Gold to CPI, the growth from gold took 92% and the CPI took 8%. Magic huh.

This is why when people see the Dow Jones, Gold, the Trillions in QE they all say OMFG my hamburger is going to cost 500 bucks are entirely wrong time and time again. The inflation that hits our everyday items is actually very low it is just that we feel it more because our incomes/wealth are also very low in comparison to the wealthy.

[Mayday]

Crazy mofos buying in at $34,100 LOL

Eject eject eject !!!

[gib]

Crazy mofos buying in at $34,100 LOL

Eject eject eject !!!

Its interesting to see what is going on. My contacts in Asia and in the US who are in banking and private wealth tell me they see a wall of institutional money coming into BTC in Q1-Q2 of 2021. Once these institutions are in, they will open up and give access to retail investors via simple platforms (eg EFTs, investment funds, payment systems, credit cards, and via retail bank accounts and stock broking accounts, etc). What we are seeing now, is more sophisticated investors who are front-running what they will see a huge wall of money coming into BTC this year with perfectly scarcity assured and ever increasing demand. During certain times of BTC's evolution we will see almost zero selling demand and strong buying demand, and at times like that strong upwards movements in price.

Bankers are all still on holiday, and will be looking to allocate once they are back to work later this month...