Bitcoins - about to hit $5,000 per coin today!

[Mr Anabolic]

Oh and now I read that PWC one of the largest accounting firms in the world will start accepting BTC as payment in HK - and I bet they don't accept gold Mr Anabolic - just another sign of the move towards legitimacy and mainstream for BTC as the modern day equavelent of gold

www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2122349/accounting-big-four-pwc-accepts-bitcoin-payment-hong-kong

Everyone accepts gold.  Everyone knows what gold is... every person in the most developed nations and in 3rd world countries... rich people, and poor people... they ALL cherish it and know gold has value.  Governments and banks hoard it.  A storage of wealth for the last 5000+ years.  

All this is going to change because you and a few other techie snowflakes say so?      

Better cash in some of those bitcoins and get some gold.  Even better, get a few thousand ounces of silver while it's dirt cheap.

[gib]

Everyone accepts gold.  Everyone knows what gold is... every person in the most developed nations and in 3rd world countries... rich people, and poor people... they ALL cherish it and know gold has value.  Governments and banks hoard it.  A storage of wealth for the last 5000+ years.  

All this is going to change because you and a few other techie snowflakes say so?      

Better cash in some of those bitcoins and get some gold.  Even better, get a few thousand ounces of silver while it's dirt cheap.

Huh? Have you actually tried paying for anything in gold? Almost no one accepts it as payment. The role of gold is really now more as a store of value. Bitcoin on the other hand is being increasingly accepted for everyday payments as well as being a store of value.

[gib]

Again... taxes and tax laws don't apply to you... you're special.   

Actually the vast vast majority of people in the world don’t pay tax. Remember that bitcoins are a GLOBAL currency (not just US). Further even for the small % of people who do pay taxes, a significant number would want to avoid paying taxes (hence cash under the table or bitcoins).

[ratherbebig]

i was at a bar last night, bartender wouldnt accept bitcoins so i had to clean dishes after they closed  

[gib]

Yeah I know... foreign tax authorities can't find you or tax your bitcoins... you're special.

lol

Not quite. Rather foreign tax authorities dont tax bitcoins. (At least in those countries where I choose to reside). But even for you poor oppressed Americans, bitcoins still provide a decent chance of avoiding taxes (but even if not, I don’t see how that negates from the validity of bitcoin as an store of value and method of exchange).

[Mr Anabolic]

Huh? Have you actually tried paying for anything in gold? Almost no one accepts it as payment. The role of gold is really now more as a store of value. Bitcoin on the other hand is being increasingly accepted for everyday payments as well as being a store of value.

If I can still use green rectangles, I wouldn't want to pay for anything in gold.  I'll wait until the inevitable financial crash comes to do that.

And no, blipcoins are not accepted at any retail or food stores near me.  

[Mr Anabolic]

Not quite. Rather foreign tax authorities dont tax bitcoins. (At least in those countries where I choose to reside). But even for you poor oppressed Americans, bitcoins still provide a decent chance of avoiding taxes (but even if not, I don’t see how that negates from the validity of bitcoin as an store of value and method of exchange).

Maybe you can teach me how to use the Mak'tar Stealth Haze?

[JAGO]

Not quite. Rather foreign tax authorities dont tax bitcoins. (At least in those countries where I choose to reside). But even for you poor oppressed Americans, bitcoins still provide a decent chance of avoiding taxes (but even if not, I don’t see how that negates from the validity of bitcoin as an store of value and method of exchange).

We should feel very special that these folks care so much about our financial situation as to take the time to warn us about Bitcoin. Anyone who doesn't care or see the investment value in Bitcoin or any cc, stay the fuck out of the thread.

J

[Mr Anabolic]

We should feel very special that these folks care so much about our financial situation as to take the time to warn us about Bitcoin. Anyone who doesn't care or see the investment value in Bitcoin or any cc, stay the fuck out of the thread.
J

Plenty of bitcoin forums out there to circle jerk on, why here?... gloating/bragging, no other reason.  

Bitcoin devotees cannot debate anyone with logic and hard facts.  When someone disagrees and points out the obvious flaws in their thinking, they are attacked and belittled.  Sounds like a religion doesn't it?  

When one becomes emotionally attached to any one particular asset class or investment (gulp!), that's usually the time to exit.

Bitcoins futures start trading on Dec 18th.  If you are smart, you'll take your profits before that happens.  The banksters will be able to push the price down via naked shorting, just like they've done with precious metals.  

[Zillotch]

I bet they don't accept gold

I do that sometimes.... type really dumb shit, know its fuked... but hit post anyway, lol

[SOMEPARTS]

We should feel very special that these folks care so much about our financial situation as to take the time to warn us about Bitcoin. Anyone who doesn't care or see the investment value in Bitcoin or any cc, stay the fuck out of the thread.

J

Meltdown.

[JAGO]

Meltdown.

It sure was.

J

[JAGO]

Plenty of bitcoin forums out there to circle jerk on, why here?... gloating/bragging, no other reason.  

Bitcoin devotees cannot debate anyone with logic and hard facts.  When someone disagrees and points out the obvious flaws in their thinking, they are attacked and belittled.  Sounds like a religion doesn't it?  

When one becomes emotionally attached to any one particular asset class or investment (gulp!), that's usually the time to exit.

Bitcoins futures start trading on Dec 18th.  If you are smart, you'll take your profits before that happens.  The banksters will be able to push the price down via naked shorting, just like they've done with precious metals.  

You age ( 51 ) that's months, right?

J

[Mr Anabolic]

You age ( 51 ) that's months, right?

Some rebuttal.

That's ALL you got?

lol

You cannot debate me and win... little boy.

[gib]

If I can still use green rectangles, I wouldn't want to pay for anything in gold.  I'll wait until the inevitable financial crash comes to do that.

And no, blipcoins are not accepted at any retail or food stores near me.  

Noted. But my point here (and I think you get it) is that gold, in reality and for practical purposes, is less accepted as a currency for daily transactions than you might think. BTC on the other hand is increasingly accepted (both for online purchases- you can’t exactly zap an gold coin or a denomination of it down the line through the internet) and for face to face purchases for goods and services (maybe not where you live but quite commonly so in certain other countries, and increasingly so as people carry around mobile phones In their pockets). So if it’s not commonly used where you live now, ask yourself this - will the usage become more common over time compared to gold, or less common? I’m helping you work this out Mr Anabolic- you are a smart guy. I’ve been through all the same reasoning you are going through...

[gib]

If I can still use green rectangles, I wouldn't want to pay for anything in gold.  I'll wait until the inevitable financial crash comes to do that.

And no, blipcoins are not accepted at any retail or food stores near me.  

You do realise that those little green rectangles over time are going away right? The government wants to move to a digital currency than can be fully traded/taxed and not counterfeited.

So over time, even “old folks” will become accustomed to digital currency and transactions, and a more and more solid acceptance and infrastructure will develop around e-payments. Now,
here’s the thing - many people may not care that they are being tracked - and many may have no choice - eg welfare recipients, military personnel, government employees, government contractors - but many will care, for various reasons. So, many will prefer to use BTC (both on the US and especially internationally). And bitcoin cannot be stopped (again don’t confuses exchanges with peer to peer). So now ask yourself, as we move to digital currency, would you prefer to use one that can be tracked/taxed/devalued or one that is mathematically limited in supply and can be exchanged and transacted with anonymously?

You will get there!

[gib]

You age ( 51 ) that's months, right?

J

I had to laugh at this, not because of the 51 months thing but because I realised just now you can check a persons age on their profile - and I checked Mr Anabllic’s age is 51. Which by the way is a fine age to be - a good solid age in life. But it matches perfectly with an earlier comment about the very distinct age gap that exists among bitcoin buyers. Basically for kids who grew up with computers and the internet, bitcoins make perfect sense. For those who didn’t, they still feel more comfortable with “physical money”.

Now, ask yourself this - as time passes, will the % of people who grew up with the internet increase, or decrease, compared with the pre-PC population?

Again, I will help you work this out Mr A - I’m a few steps ahead of you and a few years younger in age.

PS - I have not checked my own age as indicated on my profile but for privacy reasons I have always used fake ages for online accounts.

[Mr Anabolic]

Noted. But my point here (and I think you get it) is that gold, in reality and for practical purposes, is less accepted as a currency for daily transactions than you might think. BTC on the other hand is increasingly accepted (both for online purchases- you can’t exactly zap an gold coin or a denomination of it down the line through the internet) and for face to face purchases for goods and services (maybe not where you live but quite commonly so in certain other countries, and increasingly so as people carry around mobile phones In their pockets). So if it’s not commonly used where you live now, ask yourself this - will the usage become more common over time cd gold, or less common? I’m helping you work this out Mr Anabolic- you are a smart guy. I’ve been through all the same reasoning you are going through...

I think I've made my case in this thread.   I'm done debating.  Good luck Gib... seriously.

[gib]

When one becomes emotionally attached to any one particular asset class or investment (gulp!), that's usually the time to exit.
  

This is one of your better points. It bothered me too, and I thought about it a lot before investing. I’ve seen Amway pitches and ponzie pitches and I’ve observed the whole “you just have to have faith” arguments from religious nutters when you try to debate the existence of God. But here’s the thing - and think about it for a bit - have you ever spoken to a gold bug? Have you ever debated about the inherent value of a useless lump of metal with a gold bug? The value of gold is backed by nothing other than collective faith - that’s it. And what we are seeing right now is the rise of a new religion a - one which powerfully resonates with the new generation and one which is directly and mathematically self fulfilling.

Now let me ask you this - which religion do you think is going to have a faster growth in disciples? Gold or Bitcoin? Which religion is going to decline overtime. And how many who believe in gold will “cross over”’ to bitcoin because some of the same “religious themes” make sense to and resonante or appeal to them (kind of like the new age religions we see).

Again Mr A, I have thought of all of this prior to investing. What I picked up on was a trend - one as rational (or irrational as the belief in gold). Then I had to make decision on how long this trend would continue- and I concluded it would run for many more years yet and massively and exponentially snowball. (How I did that I can explain in another post).

So again, I understand what you are going through- I sense you’ve done a little reading and research - suggest you do a little more. Watch some bitcoin YouTube presentations- go to some crypto to tech meet ups. You will get there!

As for futures trading I think I have explained before that this is a huge positive - it’s a further step acknowledging btc as a mainstream tradable asset and it will increase liquidity. Further for every short position there can be a long- and now ask yourselves this - are the new generation of traders more inclined to be pro crypto and blockchain, or anti? We are going to see massive movements out of gold and into BTC over time. Bear in mind that even just a 1% shift from gold to BTC will result in the price of BTC doubling...

Ok, now think a bit. Read. Speak to younger people. You will get there. I’ve said it before - for many owning a single coin is still in reach. Buy now and secure your future for life.

[gib]

I think I've made my case in this thread.   I'm done debating.  Good luck Gib... seriously.

Thanks man. Let’s relook at this thread in 5 years time and have a laugh either way. Your a good guy and it’s been a good discussion.

[gib]

And right on point - BTC futures trading is underway ...

www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-price-pushes-above-10500-on-u-s-futures-listings/

[Mr Anabolic]

This is one of your better points. It bothered me too, and I thought about it a lot before investing. I’ve seen Amway pitches and ponzie pitches and I’ve observed the whole “you just have to have faith” arguments from religious nutters when you try to debate the existence of God. But here’s the thing - and think about it for a bit - have you ever spoken to a gold bug? Have you ever debated about the inherent value of a useless lump of metal with a gold bug? The value of gold is backed by nothing other than collective faith - that’s it. And what we are seeing right now is the rise of a new religion a - one which powerfully resonates with the new generation and one which is directly self fulfilling.

Now let me ask you this - which religion do you think is going to have a faster growth in disciples? Gold or Bitcoin? Which religion is going to decline overtime. And how many who believe in gold will “cross over”’ to bitcoin because some of the themes make sense to them (kind of like the new age religions we see).

Again Mr A, I have thought of all of this prior to investing. What I picked up on was a trend - one as rational (or irrational as the belief in gold). Then I had to make decision on how long this trend would continue- and I concluded it would run for many more years yet and massively and exponentially snowball. (How I did that I can explain in another post).

So again, I understand what you are going through- I sense you’ve done a little reading and research - suggest you do a little more. Watch some bitcoin YouTube presentations- go to some crypto to tech meet ups. You will get there!

As for futures trading I think I have explained before that this is a huge positive - it’s a further step acknowledging btc as a tradable asset and it will increase liquidity. Further for every short position there can be a long- and now ask yourselves this - are the new generation of traders more inclined to be pro crypto and blockchain, or anti? We are going to see massive movements out of gold and into BTC over time. Bear in mind that even just a 1% shift from gold to BTC will result in the price of BTC doubling...

Ok, now think a bit. Read. Speak to younger people. You will get there. I’ve said it before - for many owning a single coin is still in reach. Buy now and secure your future for life.

One last response...

As I've said before, I am not a gold "bug".  I am a cycles/contrary investor.  PM's are very close to being hated now... that's a great opportunity.  Could take a long time for PMs to reach the prices where there should be.  There will be another VERY large financial/economic downturn in within the next few years.  I have my all my positions in place, now all I have to do is wait.

IMO, all the biggest % gains in bitcoin have been made already.  For those who bought in early, that was the easy money.  I see some more upside here, but not that much... $13K - 15K tops, still wouldn't touch it at current levels... too many things can go wrong, for whatever reason.      

[gib]

One last response...

As I've said before, I am not a gold "bug".  I am a cycles/contrary investor.  PM's are very close to being hated now... that's a great opportunity.  Could take a long time for PMs to reach the prices where there should be.  There will be another VERY large financial/economic downturn in within the next few years.  I have my all my positions in place, now all I have to do is wait.

IMO, all the biggest % gains in bitcoin have been made already.  For those who bought in early, that was the easy money.  I see some more upside here, but not that much... $13K - 15K tops, still wouldn't touch it at current levels... too many things can go wrong, for whatever reason.      

Got. I’m inclined to agree with this and see where you are coming from. It’s quite possible that gold could have a bit of a resurgence.

Interesting observation that you seem to have, ratcheted up your guesstimate at to where btc might peak at - just sayin ...

But seriously I hope others enjoy the read. If either of us have helped others in making money (or not losing it) then all good. Time will tell!

[gib]

I have a personal aversion to buying at all time highs because I pessimistically think that I would be buying the top, and the prices will collapse as soon as I press the BUY button. But that is just my negative thinking. It's up to the individual at the end of the day.

If you would have bought when you made this post you would have already doubled your money ...”.

[gib]

Could easily get to 10k per coin by year end. We are far from the point where he average man in the street is buying. It's still really geeks and bankers (and a few getbiggers). But just imagine when this goes mainstream.

Oh and look who was exactly right with his prediction ...