Epic Knowledge by Confederate Black Women

[The True Adonis]

Actually, it was about a slave-owning elite,  who almost brought an empire to its knees. Thanks for playing.   

You mean the elite, like President Lincoln, who had no problem with continuing slavery and even made sure that slavery continued in the great Emancipation Proclamation?   

[The True Adonis]

Actually, it was about a slave-owning elite,  who almost brought an empire to its knees. Thanks for playing.   

I think Lincoln made it pretty clear what the Civil War was about.  Do you know what he used as justification for preventing legal Secession?  The oath of the Constitution, which really did not give him the legal authority at all and he knew it and so did his attorney general.

Lincoln made it clear what the Civil War was about:  “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”

[SF1900]

TA has ramped up his trolling as of late! I wonder what's going on!

[Al Doggity]

The Civil War was not about slavery.

Slavery was the MAJOR reason for the civil war.

Mississippi's Declaration of Secession. It is the first thing mentioned:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization.

[dr.chimps]

You mean the elite, like President Lincoln, who had no problem with continuing slavery and even made sure that slavery continued in the great Emancipation Proclamation?   

Well. I have a problem with an Emancipation Proclamation after Sherman fucked up the South. Kinda like getting a HOF team, on a holiday. But let's not forget it was an elite bunch of Southerners who farked it up, for everyone.

[Al Doggity]

Georgia's declaration of secession:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_geosec.asp

Second sentence:

. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery.

[Al Doggity]

South Carolina's:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

We affirm that these ends for which this Government was instituted have been defeated, and the Government itself has been made destructive of them by the action of the non-slaveholding States. Those States have assume the right of deciding upon the propriety of our domestic institutions; and have denied the rights of property established in fifteen of the States and recognized by the Constitution; they have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery;

How is this not about slavery?

[Al Doggity]

I think Lincoln made it pretty clear what the Civil War was about.  Do you know what he used as justification for preventing legal Secession?  The oath of the Constitution, which really did not give him the legal authority at all and he knew it and so did his attorney general.

Lincoln made it clear what the Civil War was about:  “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or destroy Slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves, I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. What I do about Slavery and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save this Union, and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union.”

This is completely irrelevant.

[The True Adonis]

Slavery was the MAJOR reason for the civil war.

Mississippi's Declaration of Secession. It is the first thing mentioned:
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_missec.asp

How come you did not use the North Carolina Declaration of Secession?    

http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina

North Carolina

AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of North Carolina and the other States united with her, under the compact of government entitled "The Constitution of the United States."

We, the people of the State of North Carolina in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the ordinance adopted by the State of North Carolina in the convention of 1789, whereby the Constitution of the United States was ratified and adopted, and also all acts and parts of acts of the General Assembly ratifying and adopting amendments to the said Constitution, are hereby repealed, rescinded, and abrogated.

We do further declare and ordain, That the union now subsisting between the State of North Carolina and the other States, under the title of the United States of America, is hereby dissolved, and that the State of North Carolina is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which belong and appertain to a free and independent State.

Done in convention at the city of Raleigh, this the 20th day of May, in the year of our Lord 1861, and in the eighty-fifth year of the independence of said State.

Source: Official Records, Ser. IV, vol. 1, pp. 335-336.

[The True Adonis]

South Carolina's:

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

How is this not about slavery?

Uh, those are not ordinances of Secession.

Hope this helps.

Here they are:

http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina

[The True Adonis]

Another quote by The Great Emancipator. 

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races...I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln


Furthermore, Virginia, Tennessee and North Carolina seceded because they feared an invading army. 

Stonewall Jackson made it clear:

[ Invalid YouTube link ]

[Al Doggity]

Uh, those are not ordinances of Secession.

Hope this helps.

Here they are:

http://www.constitution.org/csa/ordinances_secession.htm#North%20Carolina

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Right at the top of all the links   The ordinances you posted don't list any reasons for the war.

The declarations I posted list the SPECIFIC reasons the southern states gave for secession. Slavery is the main point in all of them.

[dr.chimps]

Another quote by The Great Emancipator. 

"I will say, then, that I am not, nor ever have been , in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races - that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races...I, as much as any other man, am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race." -Abraham Lincoln


Furthermore, Virginia, Tennessee and North Carolina seceded because they feared an invading army. 

Stonewall Jackson made it clear:





 

Emancipater. You rock!

[The True Adonis]

Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union

Right at the top of all the links   The ordinances you posted don't list any reasons for the war.

The declarations I posted list the SPECIFIC reasons the southern states gave for secession. Slavery is the main point in all of them.

Find me the specific reasons North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee seceded.  Can you do that for me?  

[Marty Champions]

TA why do give so many fucks about abe lincon confeds civil war ect enlighten me!

[Al Doggity]

Find me the specific reasons North Carolina, Virginia and Tennessee seceded.  Can you do that for me?  

Only four states released official declarations.
North Carolina wasn't one of them.


But I guess it's possible that NC's reasons were completely different than Georgia, Texas, South Carolina and Mississipi's reasons.  

[Al Doggity]

Some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union

While later claims have been made after the war's end that the South Carolinian decision to secede was prompted by other issues such as tariffs and taxes, these issues were not mentioned at all in the declaration. The primary focus of the declaration is the perceived violation of the Constitution by northern states in not extraditing escaped slaves (as the U.S. Constitution required in Article IV, Section 2) and actively working to abolish slavery (which South Carolinian secessionists saw as Constitutionally guaranteed and protected). The main thrust of the argument was that since the U.S. Constitution, being a contract, had been violated by some parties (the northern abolitionist states), the other parties (the southern slave-holding states) were no longer bound by it. Georgia, Mississippi, and Texas offered similar declarations when they seceded,

Whether or not Lincoln was fighting to free the slaves is not the issue. The south attempted to secede and instigated to maintain slavery.


If you think NC, Virginia,etc went to war for different reasons that didn't include slavery, maybe you have a link showing what those reasons were? 

[The True Adonis]

Some background:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_the_Immediate_Causes_Which_Induce_and_Justify_the_Secession_of_South_Carolina_from_the_Federal_Union

Whether or not Lincoln was fighting to free the slaves is not the issue. The south attempted to secede and instigated to maintain slavery.


If you think NC, Virginia,etc went to war for different reasons that didn't include slavery, maybe you have a link showing what those reasons were? 

You are claiming they cited slavery as a reason, but yet don't have any evidence of them doing so.  NC was the last to secede by the way.  If it were about slavery, don't you think secession from states such as NC would have been instant?

[Al Doggity]

You are claiming they cited slavery as a reason, but yet don't have any evidence of them doing so.  NC was the last to secede by the way.  If it were about slavery, don't you think secession from states such as NC would have been instant?

Fine, TA. We know what the reasoning was for 4 states, because they made it perfectly clear in official statement and those reasons were identical. It would be reasonable to assume the others felt the same, since they fought on the same side in a war, but if that's not the case then just post a link with some info showing why that's an incorrect assumption.

[The True Adonis]

Fine, TA. We know what the reasoning was for 4 states, because they made it perfectly clear in official statement and those reasons were identical. It would be reasonable to assume the others felt the same, since they fought on the same side in a war, but if that's not the case then just post a link with some info showing why that's an incorrect assumption.

No it wouldn`t.

Do you not understand the Confederacy and its goal of individual state Sovereignty.

Why don't you post the link since you made the claim? 

[The True Adonis]

Furthermore Al Dumbity, the Confederacy was established in the Montgomery Convention in February 1861 (before Lincoln's inauguration in March).  March 2nd, Lincoln support the Northern led Permanent Slavery Act seen here:  (Secession occurred well before Lincoln and the North wanted a Permanent Slave Act, thus Secession was not about slavery.  The "Union" was willing to give the South and the North Permanent Slavery if they rejoined the Union and stopped Seceeding.  They didn't.  This essentially proves that it was not about Slavery.  If it were about Slavery, they would have simply just rejoined the Union and let the Permanent Slave Act Pass and Lincoln already made it known he would sign it)

Hope this helps.

[The True Adonis]

Hope this Helps Al Dumbity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.[3][5]"

The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification.[1] Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay.[2] Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.[3][4]

[The True Adonis]

Just in case you forgot, William Seward, who introduced the Northern Permanent Slave Act "Corwin Ammendment", was Lincoln's Secretary of State.

Hope this helps, Dumbity.

[Al Doggity]

No it wouldn`t.

 

Yes, it would. All of the states  that issued Declarations stated the exact same reasons. All of the states that fought as part of the confederacy had that reason in common.

You're claiming the claim is false when it makes no sense to do so. Even if you want to make the argument that we can't know what NC's reasons are because we don't an official declaration from them,that is a minor quibble.   The ONLY official declarations we have ALL list slavery as the primary reason.

[Al Doggity]

Hope this Helps Al Dumbity:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corwin_Amendment

"No amendment shall be made to the Constitution which will authorize or give to Congress the power to abolish or interfere, within any State, with the domestic institutions thereof, including that of persons held to labor or service by the laws of said State.[3][5]"

The Corwin Amendment is a proposed amendment to the United States Constitution passed by the 36th Congress on March 2, 1861 and submitted to the state legislatures for ratification.[1] Senator William H. Seward of New York introduced the amendment in the Senate and Representative Thomas Corwin of Ohio introduced it in the House of Representatives. It was one of several measures considered by Congress in an ultimately unsuccessful attempt to attract the seceding states back into the Union and to entice border slave states to stay.[2] Technically still pending before the states, it would, if ratified, shield "domestic institutions" of the states (which in 1861 included slavery) from the constitutional amendment process and from abolition or interference by Congress.[3][4]

https://www.gilderlehrman.org/history-by-era/failure-compromise/resources/proposed-thirteenth-amendment-prevent-secession-1861

Excerpt 1:

In the wake of the presidential election of 1860 that brought Abraham Lincoln to the White House, the slaveholding states of the American South, led by South Carolina, began withdrawing from the nation. In the midst of this constitutional crisis, President James Buchanan, still in office until Lincoln’s inauguration in March 1861, tried to reassure the South that their slave property would remain safe, even under the incoming Republican administration.

Excerpt 2:

” The amendment, officially designated Joint Resolution No. 80, passed the House of Representatives in late February by the convincing vote of more than two-thirds of the membership. It was delivered to the Senate just days before Lincoln’s inauguration and although most members of that body supported it, opponents were successful in blocking the amendment on a parliamentary technicality. Lincoln sent the amendment to the states for consideration. Only Ohio and Maryland ratified it. The copy of the amendment provided here is the one sent to Maryland for approval.