How did you get started?

[equipoise]

Was this a GP or an Endo?

My GP wouldn't even consider putting me on TRT.  My Endo encouraged it the following week.

216 is bottom.  That's not a healthy level.  A lot of Doctors these days are more open to it, but it all depends on what they are comfortable with.

Naturally my levels are 430 and my bloodwork is perfect at that level, and I also feel ok mentally (except no muscle lol). I think it's different for different people. Going to experiment with an 800 test level starting this week and see how I feel

[aintitgrand]

Was this a GP or an Endo?

My GP wouldn't even consider putting me on TRT.  My Endo encouraged it the following week.

216 is bottom.  That's not a healthy level.  A lot of Doctors these days are more open to it, but it all depends on what they are comfortable with.

That's so stupid... its not up to them to be comfortable with a medication or not. If someone has low test, which could lead to health issues later on, it shouldn't matter if the doc loves or hates testosterone. They should prescribe it just like they would prescribe T-3s for chronic pain or penicillin for an infection. Injectable testosterone should be treated like any other medication and not looked at as some evil thing that a doc would prescribe only if they're comfortable with it.
/Rant   

[phreak]

Was this a GP or an Endo?

My GP wouldn't even consider putting me on TRT.  My Endo encouraged it the following week.

216 is bottom.  That's not a healthy level.  A lot of Doctors these days are more open to it, but it all depends on what they are comfortable with.

GP. And yes, ridiculously low. Which is why I mentioned my father: he has the same GP, the GP could see that my numbers were lower than my father's, and still he did not see any need to do anything. Unless I would be suicidal from low test, or completely impotent, then he might consider sending me to an endo. One argument was: "but you look healthy and muscular!". Yes, but the fact that I struggle to bench 265 where I was doing 405 6 months ago also plays into it...

[phreak]

That's so stupid... its not up to them to be comfortable with a medication or not. If someone has low test, which could lead to health issues later on, it shouldn't matter if the doc loves or hates testosterone. They should prescribe it just like they would prescribe T-3s for chronic pain or penicillin for an infection. Injectable testosterone should be treated like any other medication and not looked at as some evil thing that a doc would prescribe only if they're comfortable with it.
/Rant   

Fully agreed. I do think there should be better numbers for each age group, so that the discussion on "normal" can be had more objectively. And even then: my goal is not to just be "not ill". I only exist for about 80 years, I want to thrive!

[Littleguyontheprairie]

Fully agreed. I do think there should be better numbers for each age group, so that the discussion on "normal" can be had more objectively. And even then: my goal is not to just be "not ill". I only exist for about 80 years, I want to thrive!

Yeah! 330-1080 or something? That's such a wide range. I want to thrive! not be a bottom feeder.

[Davidtheman100]

Yeah! 330-1080 or something? That's such a wide range. I want to thrive! not be a bottom feeder.

the difference between something like 600 and 900 are completely nonexistent.......The T levels mean little to nothing....It's all about how you feel and about how your other levels are....

[Littleguyontheprairie]

Well those are both up there. 2xx-350 seems to be the difference between get help and you'll be fine. I understand what you're saying though.

Edit: Which other levels are you referring to?

Edit Edit: Can someone explain to me the transfer of per gram of test to blood results? Eg: someone doing 500mg weekly, how does that translate on a scale of 1-3000 concerning your labs? I've read something about 7-10x your dose = lab result.

[aintitgrand]

Well those are both up there. 2xx-350 seems to be the difference between get help and you'll be fine. I understand what you're saying though.

Edit: Which other levels are you referring to?

Edit Edit: Can someone explain to me the transfer of per gram of test to blood results? Eg: someone doing 500mg weekly, how does that translate on a scale of 1-3000 concerning your labs? I've read something about 7-10x your dose = lab result.

Its not an exact calculation. Some people uptake/tolerate the exogenous test better than others, so 2 people could take 250mg/wk, one's results will come back at 1100 but the other's will come back at 1400. This is why prescriptions between people range, some may only need 150mg/wk, others may need 250mg/wk when on doc prescribed HRT. Then when you get into GRAMS of gear, every formula out there falls apart because of diminishing returns.

[Littleguyontheprairie]

Thank you Mr.Estevez.

Week	Test-E	Clomid	Nolvadex	Arimidex
1	250mgx2	x	x
2	250mgx2	x	x
3	250mgx2	x	x
4	250mgx2	x	x
5	250mgx2	x	x
6	250mgx2	x	x
7	250mgx2	x	x
8	250mgx2	x	x
9	250mgx2	x	x
10	250mgx2	x	x
11	x	x	x
12	x	x	x
13	x	100mg/ed	40mg/ed
14	x	50mg/ed	30mg/ed
15	x	50mg/ed	20mg/ed
Tot	2500	1400	630	28mg/onhand

Arimidex? I've read conflicting things on when to start it. Some say when you start to see symptoms like puffy nips. Opinions?

[Bulgarian_enforcer]

10 weeks is ok but 12 is better.

u can take some pregnyl (hcg) during your time on (500ui weekly) to keep them balls wokring. also if you can get legin proviron 50 mg ed will keep your estro ok.

also for the PCT I only use nolva for 4 weeks (40/30/20/10) and do ok for several years. no need for so much cancer meds they are pretty harsh on the body.

GL with the cycle.

[Littleguyontheprairie]

For the HCG all i see is 5000iu or something along those lines in an ampule. Are people buying these and resealing them after removing the desired amount?

Edit: I obviously need to read more about this.

[Davidtheman100]

Thank you Mr.Estevez.

Week	Test-E	Clomid	Nolvadex	Arimidex
1	250mgx2	x	x
2	250mgx2	x	x
3	250mgx2	x	x
4	250mgx2	x	x
5	250mgx2	x	x
6	250mgx2	x	x
7	250mgx2	x	x
8	250mgx2	x	x
9	250mgx2	x	x
10	250mgx2	x	x
11	x	x	x
12	x	x	x
13	x	100mg/ed	40mg/ed
14	x	50mg/ed	30mg/ed
15	x	50mg/ed	20mg/ed
Tot	2500	1400	630	28mg/onhand

Arimidex? I've read conflicting things on when to start it. Some say when you start to see symptoms like puffy nips. Opinions?

I would just run it throughout but as minimal as possible because you need some estrogen in your system for muscle growth. But why wait till something bad happens to run it? If you already have it just run it IMO

[Littleguyontheprairie]

Thanks David. I guess I'll add like .25mg/ed and see what happens. HCG mixing and dividing it up seems like its going to be the biggest pain so far.

[Captain Equipoise]

I got started, working in a serious bodybuilder/powerlifter gym when I was around 20, and got introduced to a few bodybuilders and powerlifters who helped me put together my first cycle of 250mg of Testoviron and 250mg of Karachi sustanon, gained about 12lbs. and lost about 4-5% of bodyfat (they say your first cycle is the best) made a complete transformation of my body and I was hooked. This was around 2000 when you could still get real legit human grade stuff as ugl's didn't really exist till a bit later.

[local hero]

I got started, working in a serious bodybuilder/powerlifter gym when I was around 20, and got introduced to a few bodybuilders and powerlifters who helped me put together my first cycle of 250mg of Testoviron and 250mg of Karachi sustanon, gained about 12lbs. and lost about 4-5% of bodyfat (they say your first cycle is the best) made a complete transformation of my body and I was hooked. This was around 2000 when you could still get real legit human grade stuff as ugl's didn't really exist till a bit later.

I used to get so sick of hacksawing the necks to make sure they didn't break... I thought it was great when the ugl 10ml bottles came in, little did I know how much I miss spending 15mins setting shots up..